Separating the issues is a political ploy. There is a central issue that is simple to address, i.e. the rights of felons who have served sentences. It should be a simple consistent position, either they have the same rights as everyone else, or they dont.
Separating the issues is a political ploy. There is a central issue that is simple to address, i.e. the rights of felons who have served sentences. It should be a simple consistent position, either they have the same rights as everyone else, or they dont.
Zaap
Diamond Member
- Jun 12, 2008
- 7,162
- 424
- 126
Well, it is fitting.Yeah, let those who choose to commit crimes against others have a bigger say in how the country is run. That should work out well
Those that commit the most costly crimes against others (fraud and theft to the tune of TRILLIONS of dollars wasted and massive debt shackled around the neck of future generations) are the ones in power.
Why shouldn't they do everything possible to empower their blue-collar counterparts as well?
That would be a political ploy as well to keep them one and the same. Not all rights should be given to a convited felon. It should be determined on what the crime was. Not all rules need to apply to everyone equally.
Correct, but that doesnt mean you have to strip all rights equally for varying types of crimes.
Using that same logic, you'd be fine then with the convicted felon having a weapon then right? After all, he's now a rehabbed functional law abiding person and should retain all his constitutional rights? ()
When you commit a felony you willingly permanently give up the right to vote. I don't see a problem with that.
Why would you see a problem with that. How soon do you think it's going to be before you see that what you fear in the other is what you feel is true about yourself. The thief lives in terror that he will be robbed, the liar that he will be robbed, the adulterer that the partner will be unfaithful. Careful now, what you say about me.
Because they have to duh-vert into the usual inverted logic. I mean, if I guy can't own a gun, then he shouldn't be allowed to vote, either, right?
Here's a compiliation of the current situation-
There's no correlation to any of it, merely capriciousness from state to state. In Maine & Vermont, convicts vote absentee from prison, and it's not like those places are going to Hell in a handbasket as a result.
Part of the problem is that prosecutors can define similar crimes in different ways, leading to different voting outcomes. Most cases are plea bargains. One defendant pleas to a minor felony, does a year in the joint. The next, under very much the same situation, pleas to 3 misdemeanors, does the same amount of time. One is forever banned from voting, the other is not. Traditionally, this can be done in extremely discriminatory fashion.
I'm entirely in favor of applying the voting rights act to felons voting, even to adopting the model of Maine & Vermont.
boomerang
Lifer
- Jun 19, 2000
- 18,883
- 641
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Yeah, let those who choose to commit crimes against others have a bigger say in how the country is run. That should work out well
As if there aren't enormously more criminal acts that go unapprehended than those who are.
It is, sad to say, common for conservatives to heap abuse upon the unlucky.
HumblePie
Lifer
- Oct 30, 2000
- 14,665
- 440
- 126
Duh...
Some crimes are worse than others but not so bad that a prisoner needs to be kept for life in a prison system on the tax payers dime.
A person convicted of smoking pot or sentenced for a third strike of smoking it? I have no problem with them still being able to vote, own a gun, and not even having those criminal records show up on a background check.
A repeat child molester? Different story wouldn't you agree? Even if their not in "jail" anymore doesn't mean they shouldn't endure a lifetime of some form of punishment for their actions.
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Atomic Playboy
Lifer
- Feb 6, 2007
- 16,432
- 1
- 81
Of course they shouldn't be allowed to vote. They don't pay taxes, do they? Oh, they do? Hmm.... I seem to recall some rhyming cadence about the founding of this country that had to do with taxation and representation... I don't remember quite how it goes.
OutHouse
Lifer
- Jun 5, 2000
- 36,410
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- 126
this. i really have never understood that basic right is still denied after serving time.
OutHouse
Lifer
- Jun 5, 2000
- 36,410
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- 126
Atomic Playboy
Lifer
- Feb 6, 2007
- 16,432
- 1
- 81
I love the logical disconnect between these posts. If someone mentions that many felonies come from marijuana convictions, it's a strawman. If you compare voting to gun ownership, it's a valid question. But I'll play along. If a felon has served his/her time to society and is not on parole or probation, I have no problem with them owning guns. Or voting. Or, hell, smoking pot. If they've been convicted of multiple felonies, ok, now you have a compelling reason to keep them from having access to certain things (like guns or voting). But the notion that one offense bars you from certain inalienable rights forever just seems completely unjust to me. Outside of the most serious of crimes (terrorism, serial murder or rape, treason), the punishment just doesn't fit the offense.
Brainonska511
Lifer
- Dec 10, 2005
- 29,298
- 14,727
- 136
If they've fulfilled the terms of their punishment, I don't see why not. We want them to be functioning members of society after their imprisonment. Further marginalizing them, by preventing them from voting, does not do them or society any good.
rudeguy
Lifer
- Dec 27, 2001
- 47,351
- 14
- 61
Too bad that isn't what was said.
Keep trying. You'll find that nasty straw man yet!
Yeah, let those who choose to commit crimes against others have a bigger say in how the country is run. That should work out well
It seems to working fine for uneducated, idiotic, religious voters.
rudeguy
Lifer
- Dec 27, 2001
- 47,351
- 14
- 61
so you think all black males are felons?
Or is it that you think all felons are black males?
/me runs and hides
thraashman
Lifer
- Apr 10, 2000
- 11,112
- 1,587
- 126
It seems to working fine for uneducated, idiotic, religious voters.
Yep, a lot of people seem to think it's ok to let people vote on laws based on their religion that will affect people who do not practice the same religion. Seems far worse to me.
I say no.
I don't think their debt to society is paid off till they pay back the prison system for all their free room and board.
I don't think their debt to society is paid off till they pay back the prison system for all their free room and board.
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