Should employers be able to tell employees how to behave during the National Anthem?

[emperus]

I'm been thinking about this and I'm not comfortable with any private employer dictating to it's players how they should behave during the National Anthem. Forget the protests, what the NFL is asking is akin to asking it's players to pledge allegiance to something they may not want to. I don't think that should be a prerequisite to employment anywhere. I think the NFL should either stop playing the National Anthem during the games or not have the players come out until it's over. I think it's slippery slope they are attempting to cross. I hope the union and ACLU stands up to them.

Thoughts?

From the NFL Game Day manual.
The National Anthem must be played prior to every NFL game, and all players must be on the sideline for the National Anthem. During the National Anthem, players on the field and bench area should stand at attention, face the flag, hold helmets in their left hand, and refrain from talking. … Failure to be on the field by the start of the National Anthem may result in discipline, such as fines, suspensions, and/or the forfeiture of draft choice(s) for violations of the above, including first offenses.

 

[ch33zw1z]

Nah, the anthem shouldn't be played prior to games, except the last one of the season, and no...employers don't get to dictate your behavior regarding the national anthem.

 

[emperus]

Why aren't conservatives and libertarians more concerend?

 

[Fanatical Meat]

If you are on the clock yes they can but understand that's not saying yes they should.

In regards to sports, I really don't think it's an unreasonable requirement but I also think it's pretty easy to keep them in the locker room until the anthem is over too.

 

[fskimospy]

It’s a dumb thing to do but of course employers can require their employees to do things like stand during the anthem as a condition of employment. That doesn’t mean you aren’t free to stop watching them and stop patronizing them for their actions. Often that’s the only way you can get business to act responsibly.

In short can they? Sure. Should they? Of course not, it’s an incredibly dumb thing to do. Honestly who gives a flying fuck if someone is standing or kneeling during an anthem?

 

[Conscript]

If you're affecting my bottom line with your actions while you're in my employ...I can fire you for anything.

But benching them is not even remotely firing...and arguing against it would certainly lose in any labor court in the land.

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[HomerJS]

Read it again. Difference between "must" and "should"

 

[emperus]

If you're affecting my bottom line with your actions while you're in my employ...I can fire you for anything.

But benching them is not even remotely firing...and arguing against it would certainly lose in any labor court in the land.

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So where does this end. Can employers force employees to kneel during prayers, if some owner decided he wants to start off a game with a prayer?

Read it again. Difference between "must" and "should"

Thanks.

 

[fskimospy]

If you're affecting my bottom line with your actions while you're in my employ...I can fire you for anything.

But benching them is not even remotely firing...and arguing against it would certainly lose in any labor court in the land.

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You definitely can’t fire people for anything just because you think they are affecting your bottom line. That’s a good way to lose a lot of wrongful termination lawsuits.

That being said, you can certainly bench or fire them for this. The right answer is to boycott whatever teams try to force their players to do this as the owner who wants to force his players to stop speaking out for racial justice is a shithead.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

Being serious has anyone stood during the anthem while they were at home?
I kind of remember doing it a couple of times when I was a kid but certainly never as an adult
I have stood for the anthem at a bar before a bruins game but again that must have been 25 years ago.

 

[fskimospy]

So where does this end. Can employers force employees to kneel during prayers, if some owner decided he wants to start off a game with a prayer?

This is what I was referring to. If someone tries to fire someone due to their sex, race, religion, etc, they better be prepared to fork over a lot of money in lawsuits.

Thanks.

They can easily change that at any time. There is simply no legal right to political protest while on the clock.

 

[Conscript]

So where does this end. Can employers force employees to kneel during prayers, if some owner decided he wants to start off a game with a prayer?


Thanks.

No, because we have laws protecting religious persecution. We do not have laws protecting people for acting stupid because they don't like the president.

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[Conscript]

Being serious has anyone stood during the anthem while they were at home?
I kind of remember doing it a couple of times when I was a kid but certainly never as an adult
I have stood for the anthem at a bar before a bruins game but again that must have been 25 years ago.

I don't necessarily stand. But I definitely stop eating, talking, etc, and insist my children do too.

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[emperus]

They can easily change that at any time. There is simply no legal right to political protest while on the clock.

I'm not arguing this as a right to political protest. I understand the argument that people shouldn't have the right to political protest while on the clock. But should an employer be able to force you to take a political position or take an oath or swear allegiance to something as a term of employment?

 

[HomerJS]

No, because we have laws protecting religious persecution. We do not have laws protecting people for acting stupid because they don't like the president.

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Before President Big Mouth regurgitated his bile he was not even the subject of kneeling

 

[Fanatical Meat]

No, because we have laws protecting religious persecution. We do not have laws protecting people for acting stupid because they don't like the president.

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Exactly and it is also exactly why a bunch of NFL guys will become born again or any other multitude of religions that won't salute the flag

 

[Conscript]

Before President Big Mouth regurgitated his bile he was not even the subject of kneeling

You're right, it was primarily one guy who suddenly found a passionate cause at the exact same time his career was falling apart and he needed something to remain relevant while he road the pine.

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[emperus]

You're right, it was primarily one guy who suddenly found a passionate cause at the exact same time his career was falling apart and he needed something to remain relevant while he road the pine.

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I think you're missing the forest for the trees. For me this is about person liberty. The decision to choose what political or religious views to support or what oaths you want to take. I don't believe any employer should be allowed to that liberty from you.

 

[Conscript]

I think you're missing the forest for the trees. For me this is about person liberty. The decision to choose what political or religious views to support or what oaths you want to take. I don't believe any employer should be allowed to that liberty from you.

You're an At Will, contracted employee. I have no obligation to employ you if your actions are detrimental to my business. Any thoughts otherwise are a product of our millennial generation...

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[fskimospy]

You're an At Will, contracted employee. I have no obligation to employ you if your actions are detrimental to my business. Any thoughts otherwise are a product of our millennial generation...

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Haha you might want to consult with a labor attorney because what you wrote here is badly wrong. There are quite a few reasons why you can’t terminate people so assuming you want to keep that business you might want to learn something about them.

It’s amazing how angry people get over something we should all be behind. Kaepernick’s protest was basically that racially biased policing sucks. What sane person disagrees?

 

[Conscript]

Haha you might want to consult with a labor attorney because what you wrote here is badly wrong. There are quite a few reasons why you can’t terminate people so assuming you want to keep that business you might want to learn something about them.

It’s amazing how angry people get over something we should all be behind. Kaepernick’s protest was basically that racially biased policing sucks. What sane person disagrees?

I'm not terribly concerned with the legal analysis of someone who uses the term "badly wrong"

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[OutHouse]

You definitely can’t fire people for anything just because you think they are affecting your bottom line. That’s a good way to lose a lot of wrongful termination lawsuits.

lol whut? you can be fired for anything unless it s for race, sex religion..... you would never win a wrongful termination lawsuit if you went crying to the courts that you were fired for having a negative impact on the bottom line.

 

[fskimospy]

I'm not terribly concerned with the legal analysis of someone who uses the term "badly wrong"

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It was just some friendly advice for you! What you think of my legal advice is entirely irrelevant to what the law says. If you genuinely think you can fire someone just because they take an action detrimental to your business because you’re in an at will state you are opening yourself up to significant legal risk.

Try telling the judge or jury that their ruling against you is simply a figment of the millennial generation. I’m sure that will lessen the award you have to pay out.

 

[OutHouse]

Haha you might want to consult with a labor attorney because what you wrote here is badly wrong. There are quite a few reasons why you can’t terminate people so assuming you want to keep that business you might want to learn something about them.

It’s amazing how angry people get over something we should all be behind. Kaepernick’s protest was basically that racially biased policing sucks. What sane person disagrees?

lol fail.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

lol whut? you can be fired for anything unless it s for race, sex religion..... you would never win a wrongful termination lawsuit if you went crying to the courts that you were fired for having a negative impact on the bottom line.

As a former Manager who showed up to wrongful termination and unemployment hearings I have to agree however that doesn't mean you won't end up spending several days in various courts waiting forever for various crap to play out or more likely have someone complain about a payroll violation or hours worked and not paid. There are tons of ways you can get into trouble on those issues.