Should doctors refuse to teat PTs who do not follow instructions?

[PrinceofWands]

If you don't follow the preventive measures suggested by your doctor,.. then why go to him/her??

What's the point of going to someone, for medical advice and guidance, if you won't listen to them?

I don't know about anyone else, but I don't go to a doctor for medical advice and guidance. I go for treatment or to have prescriptions written. I can do the research and make the choices myself, but I'm not able (legally or because of resources) to obtain the treatment. That's all a doctor is for me.

 

[BUnit1701]

So, no kids then? As expected.



Tell that to the parents. If the doctor involved was actually refusing requested vaccines to patients your position would make a lot more sense. Doctors would like nothing more than to inoculate kids and keep them from harm, but they can't overrule parents now can they?

Doctors have an obligation to do no harm to their patients. The public at large is not a patient. If established patients decide they want to pick and choose treatments against the advice of the doctor, well that's their right of course, but the doctor has the right (and responsibility IMO) to keep his non KoolAid drinking patients from suffering/dying due to the decisions of people who take issue with science and medicine.

Sadly, it's going to take a lot more sick people and things like http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/...sles-epidemic-now-offering-free-vaccinations# to happen before this anti-vaccine stupidity ends.
Either the idiots will learn the hard way, or die out, but it saddens me greatly that some sweet little kids are going to pay a price for the paranoia and dogma of their parents.

I find this from you article interesting:

"Which is, of course, how epidemics work. Somebody goes somewhere and brings back a something that none of the other somebodies have an immunity to, infecting them all and allowing the something to spread ever-further. By vaccinating yourself and your children, you are not only making sure your family does not get the disease in question, you are also making sure that your family is not a disease-riddled pus vector oozing easily preventable plague onto all the other people in your community, causing you to be scorned as an "outsider" and the state department of health to issue up bulletins specifically naming you and your community as the disease-riddled pus vectors in question and warning your fellow human beings to wash their hands a lot if they have to come in contact with you."

Make up our minds, if the vaccination 'makes sure your family does not get the disease' then why do we have to wash our hands and avoid those who are infected because they didn't get vaccinated? I thought the vaccine protected us? Sounds like some more BS to me.

 

[Abakus]

My neighbour’s father had something like this happen to him (refusal to help etc). Only it was "never EVER miss an appointment". Well. He had cancer and it was hard for him to keep every single appointment thanks to horrible pain, meds and the distance to the only hospital that they would "treat" him at. They told him, because he missed two appointments of out all the appointments he had for six years, he can't have a new liver.

And then he died. And now it is happening to a close friend of mine and they are doing the same thing.

I absolutely despise how the health care system works and most doctors. They are evil bastards.

 

[BUnit1701]

I don't know about anyone else, but I don't go to a doctor for medical advice and guidance. I go for treatment or to have prescriptions written. I can do the research and make the choices myself, but I'm not able (legally or because of resources) to obtain the treatment. That's all a doctor is for me.

If you just got some more vaccinations, you wouldn't need treatment. Just ask around!

 

[Abakus]

If you just got some more vaccinations, you wouldn't need treatment. Just ask around!

There are dangers of vaccinations. Vaccines were I live, especially in children, have been known to make them seriously ill or brain-dead. Vaccines for smallpox etc has killed people before...

People shouldn't have to be forced into doing something in order to get health care.

 

[Moonbeam]

There are dangers of vaccinations. Vaccines were I live, especially in children, have been known to make them seriously ill or brain-dead. Vaccines for smallpox etc has killed people before...

People shouldn't have to be forced into doing something in order to get health care.

Oh Jesus, crawl back in your cave. Too bad there isn't a vaccine for ignorance required to be taken before people post.

 

[Theb]

How do Vaccines Cause Autism

If you don't trust the doctor or think he's ignorant or he wants to harm your kids, why go to a traditional doctor? Why not go to a witch doctor or faith healer or whatever it is that will more closely share your beliefs related to medicine?

 

[glenn1]

I don't know about anyone else, but I don't go to a doctor for medical advice and guidance. I go for treatment or to have prescriptions written. I can do the research and make the choices myself, but I'm not able (legally or because of resources) to obtain the treatment. That's all a doctor is for me.

Read this and stop practicing medicine without a license on yourself. It's one thing to kill yourself via willful ignorance, another to possibly subject your doctor to prosecution for malpractice because you decided to freelance and just use him as a patsy to write drug prescriptions for you under false pretenses.

http://www.phillymag.com/be-well-philly/2013/04/26/never-ever-self-diagnosis-google/

 

[glenn1]

Make up our minds, if the vaccination 'makes sure your family does not get the disease' then why do we have to wash our hands and avoid those who are infected because they didn't get vaccinated? I thought the vaccine protected us? Sounds like some more BS to me.

I hope you're a troll and not a moron.

http://www.health.gov.au/fluandyou

In general, influenza viruses are spread in two ways: (1) Respiratory droplets from an infected person's coughs or sneezes (these droplets generally travel less than one metre); and (2) Touching contaminated surfaces (including hands) and then touching your mouth, nose or eyes. People may be contagious from one day before they develop symptoms to up to seven days after they get sick, although contagiousness declines rapidly after five days. Children, especially younger children, might be contagious for longer periods.

Flu viruses can survive on some hard surfaces for up to two days. You should regularly clean frequently touched surfaces such as door handles, taps, tables, benches and fridge doors. Flu viruses can be inactivated and removed with normal household detergents. Flu viruses can survive on unwashed hands for 30 minutes, and on cloth, paper and tissues for up to 12 hours. This is why it is important to always wash your hands after coughing, sneezing or blowing your nose, and to dispose of used tissues in a bin straight away.

Respiratory droplet and contact spread are the major modes of transmission in the community, but specific procedures within the medical setting may lead to generation of aerosols (particles suspended in the atmosphere), requiring specific precautions in these settings.

The best protection you can afford yourself and others is to get vaccinated against the pandemic influenza. This will reduce the chances of you getting and transmitting the disease. However, the development of a pandemic vaccine takes time, during which the virus may already be circulating in the community and even people who have been vaccinated can pass the virus on if they touch objects contaminated by an infected person.

You can minimise the spread of the pandemic influenza in your household and in the community by maintaining good household and personal hygiene, avoiding close contact from others (at least 1 metre apart) if you or they are ill, and covering your mouth and nose when coughing or sneezing.

 

[Abakus]

Oh Jesus, crawl back in your cave. Too bad there isn't a vaccine for ignorance required to be taken before people post.

No, it is being ignorant when you deny the existence of the danger of being vaccinated. Did you hear about the mumps outbreaks in Iowa back in 2006 and Jewish communities where the former had 65% of infected people (out of 133 people, 87 of them had multiple vaccines) suffering from the mumps previously had more than one vaccination? This tends to happen in people who received multiple vaccinations. They are rare, sure, but still present.

You are just being naive if you believe otherwise. But if it makes you feel better, then go for it! :thumbsup:

But I'll go fling myself off a cliff because someone on the internet called me a name/insulted me in some way.

Make up our minds, if the vaccination 'makes sure your family does not get the disease' then why do we have to wash our hands and avoid those who are infected because they didn't get vaccinated? I thought the vaccine protected us? Sounds like some more BS to me.

It is a way for a person to "manually" vaccinate themselves. It helps prevent the spread of germs that can get you really sick. A vaccine wasn't ever meant to be used so you never had to wash your hands again, e.i, was never meant to be a replacement.

http://www.cdc.gov/handwashing/

would explain it better than me I suppose.

 

[BurnItDwn]

Doctors "advice" is not an "order", it's simply the doctor telling you the most healthy option.

Vices are one of the things that make life worth living. Things that are unhealthy are often fun. It's all about finding a balance that works for the individual.

Doctors should like the patients who don't follow their advice, since they are the ones who are going to be sick more, and thus, making more money for the doctors.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

I don't know about anyone else, but I don't go to a doctor for medical advice and guidance. I go for treatment or to have prescriptions written. I can do the research and make the choices myself, but I'm not able (legally or because of resources) to obtain the treatment. That's all a doctor is for me.

Don't have children.

 

[Strk]

There are dangers of vaccinations. Vaccines were I live, especially in children, have been known to make them seriously ill or brain-dead. Vaccines for smallpox etc has killed people before...

People shouldn't have to be forced into doing something in order to get health care.

Not all vaccines are the same

And it is funny that you use the smallpox vaccine as an example. Doctors don't like to give it because it includes a live virus.

 

[Abakus]

Not all vaccines are the same

And it is funny that you use the smallpox vaccine as an example. Doctors don't like to give it because it includes a live virus.

I understand that. Never said anything that even suggested differently. But since there are risks, people worry about them (rightfully) and decide not to get them. And in this case, they shouldn't be denied health care because of it.

It was just one example for the most extreme case.

 

[Brainonska511]

I understand that. Never said anything that even suggested differently. But since there are risks, people worry about them (rightfully) and decide not to get them. And in this case, they shouldn't be denied health care because of it.

It was just one example for the most extreme case.

The chance of serious side-effects from vaccines are orders of magnitude smaller than the risk of catching the disease with all of its potentially life-altering side effects.

People are not "rightfully" worrying about the risks from vaccines. The risk needs to be weighed with respect to the risk of catching the disease and the risk of catching the disease and experiencing harmful side-effects from it.

 

[kage69]

I find this from you article interesting:

"Which is, of course, how epidemics work. Somebody goes somewhere and brings back a something that none of the other somebodies have an immunity to, infecting them all and allowing the something to spread ever-further. By vaccinating yourself and your children, you are not only making sure your family does not get the disease in question, you are also making sure that your family is not a disease-riddled pus vector oozing easily preventable plague onto all the other people in your community, causing you to be scorned as an "outsider" and the state department of health to issue up bulletins specifically naming you and your community as the disease-riddled pus vectors in question and warning your fellow human beings to wash their hands a lot if they have to come in contact with you."

Make up our minds, if the vaccination 'makes sure your family does not get the disease' then why do we have to wash our hands and avoid those who are infected because they didn't get vaccinated? I thought the vaccine protected us? Sounds like some more BS to me.

I think it's interesting you still keep trying to argue a point you don't have.
I guess giving up on your previous posts means you figured it out, but you'd rather divert to a different issue altogether than address it.

Guess what troll, no one here gives a fuck what you think sounds like BS. Medicine and common sense are clearly beyond you, your posts in this thread say as much. Troll elsewhere please.

 

[zinfamous]

your question is not about vaccines...and yet, you post about vaccines.

Every Texashiker thread is like every other Texashiker thread.

 

[Strk]

I understand that. Never said anything that even suggested differently. But since there are risks, people worry about them (rightfully) and decide not to get them. And in this case, they shouldn't be denied health care because of it.

It was just one example for the most extreme case.

Except they aren't really being denied healthcare. They are being denied acceptance into a doctor's private practice.

 

[Abakus]

The chance of serious side-effects from vaccines are orders of magnitude smaller than the risk of catching the disease with all of its potentially life-altering side effects.

People are not "rightfully" worrying about the risks from vaccines. The risk needs to be weighed with respect to the risk of catching the disease and the risk of catching the disease and experiencing harmful side-effects from it.

It is still a risk most people do not want, especially to impose on a child. Nasal spray vaccines are the worst. They have caused the most damage. People have administrated them wrong and caused children to be brain-dead. And since most schools have a mandatory 22 vaccination for children entering or returning to school, the dangers increase. And this is, most of the time, done without parental consent (despite DPT and the like killing infants and younger children).

Medical experts even say the Gulf War soldiers who have Gulf War Syndrome could have very well gotten it from the 17-20 mandatory vaccinations that they were forced to have in a one-year span despite manufactures of the vaccines saying each had to spaced out over a year. This kind of thing can greatly aggravate your brain and natural immune system (dysfunction). It impacts the accumulation of free radicals too, and certainly all that aluminum and mercury in the vaccines is not good for you, especially if you get more than one vaccine a year—which is ill-advised but done anyway just "to be safe".

Really, it is just the same as the abuse of antibiotics. People thought it wouldn't harm anyone, but hey, look how wrong they are. Not only has it harmed people but the continued subscription of this drug has led to people being immune to it and later be ill because of it.

Sure vaccines can help prevent illness, but it is also doing damage to your body, especially if it mandatory to have multiple vaccinations within a year or two span. The danger is "small" but it isn't as small as most people make it out to be. There is a reason they have VICP.

So I entirely disagree with you. They have every right to worry about the abuse of over-vaccination or even being forced to be vaccinated. It is an abuse against your body's natural system and has shown more than once that it can cause death, illness where none was originally had, worsened state of any illness one might have had or long life crippling damages. It happens. Thus they have every reason—and certainly every right!—to worry and reject the vaccination.

Except they aren't really being denied healthcare. They are being denied acceptance into a doctor's private practice.

Okay. Private practice is a different case then. In my defense though, I was replying with the OP's "The parents made a life choice for their family, should the doctors have the right to refuse treatment due to life choices?"post in mind, and assumed it meant in all scenarios.

 

[Brainonska511]

So I entirely disagree with you. They have every right to worry about the abuse of over-vaccination or even being forced to be vaccinated. It is an abuse against your body's natural system and has shown more than once that it can cause death, illness where none was originally had, worsened state of any illness one might have had or long life crippling damages. It happens. Thus they have every reason—and certainly every right!—to worry and reject the vaccination.

It just shows you have NO idea what you're talking about.

 

[Londo_Jowo]

Medical experts even say the Gulf War soldiers who have Gulf War Syndrome could have very well gotten it from the 17-20 mandatory vaccinations that they were forced to have in a one-year span despite manufactures of the vaccines saying each had to spaced out over a year. This kind of thing can greatly aggravate your brain and natural immune system (dysfunction). It impacts the accumulation of free radicals too, and certainly all that aluminum and mercury in the vaccines is not good for you, especially if you get more than one vaccine a year—which is ill-advised but done anyway just "to be safe".

So why didn't it affect those who served in the region prior to the Gulf War and received the same vaccinations? I know that I received that many when the ship I was stationed on in 1981 when we were in the Persian Gulf. We used to get at least 8 to 10 vaccinations every time we entered the Mediterranean sea as well as Northern or Southern Atlantic regions.

 

[MomentsofSanity]

So why didn't it affect those who served in the region prior to the Gulf War and received the same vaccinations? I know that I received that many when the ship I was stationed on in 1981 when we were in the Persian Gulf. We used to get at least 8 to 10 vaccinations every time we entered the Mediterranean sea as well as Northern or Southern Atlantic regions.

I'm guessing pyridostigmine bromide wasn't one of the pills you've been given. Often incorrectly referred to as a vaccine which it is not. Then I'm guessing you weren't exposed to all the pesticides being sprayed on every surface everywhere during the Gulf War.

Pretty sure the actual vaccines such as anthrax etc... have been ruled out as causes.

 

[abj13]

And this is, most of the time, done without parental consent

Vaccines are given to children without parent consent? Where?

Sure vaccines can help prevent illness, but it is also doing damage to your body, especially if it mandatory to have multiple vaccinations within a year or two span. The danger is "small" but it isn't as small as most people make it out to be.

Show us this "risk" of multiple vaccines in a time period leading to a significant number of adverse outcomes.

There is a reason they have VICP.

No, it exists to protect vaccine producers from the rare adverse effect. If it didn't exist, vaccines wouldn't be an economically sound investment for the drug producers.

It is an abuse against your body's natural system and has shown more than once that it can cause death, illness where none was originally had, worsened state of any illness one might have had or long life crippling damages. It happens. Thus they have every reason—and certainly every right!—to worry and reject the vaccination.

Ah so you advocate going back to the "good" old days of:

 

[Londo_Jowo]

I'm guessing pyridostigmine bromide wasn't one of the pills you've been given. Often incorrectly referred to as a vaccine which it is not. Then I'm guessing you weren't exposed to all the pesticides being sprayed on every surface everywhere during the Gulf War.

Pretty sure the actual vaccines such as anthrax etc... have been ruled out as causes.

You're correct, I was never given pyridostigmine bromiden or any anthrax vaccines (I believe it was under Clinton's Presidency that anthrax vaccines were required). Or exposed to any pesticides during the time I was in the Persian Gulf. I got out of the military (11/90) just before the Gulf War

 

[Abakus]

It just shows you have NO idea what you're talking about.

I can see how you get that post count. Spam.

Instead of posting images as a response telling me I'm "wrong" can you please tell me why I'm wrong and back it up? Or is this how you generally handle debates?

So why didn't it affect those who served in the region prior to the Gulf War and received the same vaccinations? I know that I received that many when the ship I was stationed on in 1981 when we were in the Persian Gulf. We used to get at least 8 to 10 vaccinations every time we entered the Mediterranean sea as well as Northern or Southern Atlantic regions.

I want to say thank you for the questions and not displaying attitude toward me, especially rude attitude. I appreciate it. I'll try to answer as clear as I can. Please ask for clarification if needed—I have Dysgraphia, so I might jumble things here and there.

That is something that certainly needs to be discussed instead of being overlooked. From what I understand the Gulf War Syndrome is a really tricky disorder, but the vaccinations have been known to be "contaminated", and even if only one or two were contaminated and used alongside 22+ other "safe" vaccines in a very short span of time, it could have unthought of consequences. Pharmaceutical Companies hardly ever consider the effects of vaccines on the brain, or rather, the long time usage of multiple vaccines and potential damages to the brain. And since vaccines can mess with free radicals, Microglia and many others I have listed above or below in the brain, the potential damages or effects is pretty scary.

Why? Um, I'm not exactly sure how to word it. As far as I've learned from my medical books so far, it could be because the vaccines inflame the brain (common symptom of vaccination) and also mess with Cytokines (plus above).

As for why it didn't effect the others prior to the GW, I cannot give an answer, at least not one that is incredibly detailed—I'm not a neurosurgeon or anything, sadly. However, it is the same as the cases in which other vaccines have harmed people (mumps, smallpox etc vaccine); some people are not harmed by it while others are. So far it is hard to catch and find. Maybe it is entirely caused by contaminated vaccines or people administrating them wrong, I'm not sure, but it is there and there is cause enough to worry and not want the vaccines.

And considering that out of 600,000 men stationed at the time (or was it 500,000?) 200,000 soldiers vaccinated with 20+ vaccines within a short time developed this disorder (some say "mysteriously") it could very well point to the vaccines. But also, as I understand it, people stationed prior to the GW were receiving entirely different vaccines and at different time spans, which effects it.