Should disabled people have the same minimum wage as everyone else.

[Oldgamer]

Exactly. These special certificate holders may not be able to compete with non-disabled people, or to get employers to take a chance. If they prove able to compete with non-disabled people, there is nothing to prevent them from getting paid the same; they don't HAVE to take a lower wage just because it is legal.

My first thought was actually Id prefer to see regular minimum wage and an off-setting tax credit. But upon reflection, I'd bet most of these employers are not-for-profits or charities.

Not for profit charities are a big scam honestly, they make so much profit it is obscene in some cases. There were a couple of big news reports on this not too long ago. Goodwill was one of those being investigated if I recall.

Here ya go! Goodwill CEO Miller Highest paid CEO in the State: http://www.bizjournals.com/portland...dwill-ceo-highest-paid-in-state.html?page=all

and another article from Huffington post: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/john-hrabe/the-worst-corporation-in-_b_1876905.html

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

A sad reality is the majority of disabled people, such as those who are blind live off government assistance such as SSI. The reason is not because they unable to work, but that society has decided that blind people are too unproductive for meaningful work. Society treats them as if they are less capable.

On the other hand sometimes there are costly and unreasonable requireme on society. Our ever screwed up state of NY requires that higher education effectivly pretend that disabilities don't exist. My wife had a student who is academically qualified to be a microbiologist so the school (which is private btw) cannot refuse her. The problem? She needs to be able to use a microscope and she's blind as a bat. The school has to hire someone at their expense to look for her and describe what she sees. That's what she wants to do so the guys with the power says that's how it is. She might as well be a blind bus driver.

Now that's stupid at the other extreme.

 

[Farang]

Not for profit charities are a big scam honestly, they make so much profit it is obscene in some cases. There were a couple of big news reports on this not too long ago. Goodwill was one of those being investigated if I recall.

Here ya go! Goodwill CEO Miller Highest paid CEO in the State: http://www.bizjournals.com/portland...dwill-ceo-highest-paid-in-state.html?page=all

and another article from Huffington post: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/john-hrabe/the-worst-corporation-in-_b_1876905.html

I wouldn't say they are a scam per se, but "non-profit" as a term is misinterpreted by most people. Plenty of people make a lot of money from non-profits because that term only applies to the income of the organization, not its employees, vendors etc.

But I don't agree with attacking non-profit CEO salaries for being lucrative.. if I founded a charitable organization I'd want to recruit the best people to run it, and that would require money. I don't think it is fair to expect the leaders of major charitable institutions to be monks.

 

[Oldgamer]

I wouldn't say they are a scam per se, but "non-profit" as a term is misinterpreted by most people. Plenty of people make a lot of money from non-profits because that term only applies to the income of the organization, not its employees, vendors etc.

But I don't agree with attacking non-profit CEO salaries for being lucrative.. if I founded a charitable organization I'd want to recruit the best people to run it, and that would require money. I don't think it is fair to expect the leaders of major charitable institutions to be monks.

I don't think they should be making a million or half a million dollars. The idea behind a "not for profit organization" is to help people? To help the community. So if your making money, you put that back into the community, or if you are hiring people, like the disabled for instance who need good working jobs, give them working wages, don't try to manipulate them, and deny them working wages, so you as a CEO can make your million dollars. I would have more respect for a "not for profit" organization if they used their profits for what they are really intended for. I think once money starts flowing, the greed comes out in people. I understand what you are saying, but you don't need to hire someone who needs to make a million dollars to run your "not for profit organization". There are plenty of people out there who are very capable of doing the job adequately, that would be willing to do it for a salary for far less than that. I personally think a 100,000 -200,000. a year salary is ample.

 

[Fayd]

Depends on the job of course. Phone operator? Sure... But driving a vehicle or using a cash register? Not at all.

last time I was at the courthouse in Vista, the person at the inside concession stand (selling drinks, coffee, pastries, candy, etc) was blind. People would hand him bills and tell him what they were.

it was weird.

 

[nehalem256]

Just think about it will you hire a blind man for a Welding Job? How will you insure such a person? I would rather pay to take care of a blind person than a drug addicted welfare mother who had 5 children each with a different man.

Haha

According to liberals there is no difference between the two :hmm:

 

[DCal430]

This is why disabled people should never reveal their disability before being hired.

Lets say my corrected vision is 20/800, and I am unable to read any text smaller than typical size 124 without magnification. If I revealed this fact before being hired in the interview, their is a good chance you either won't hire me, or decide to pay me a lower wage. If I wait until after I am hired to reveal this fact, you can't fire me, and you can't reduce my wages. It is in my interest to keep this from you.

 

[glenn1]

This is why disabled people should never reveal their disability before being hired.

Lets say my corrected vision is 20/800, and I am unable to read any text smaller than typical size 124 without magnification. If I revealed this fact before being hired in the interview, their is a good chance you either won't hire me, or decide to pay me a lower wage. If I wait until after I am hired to reveal this fact, you can't fire me, and you can't reduce my wages. It is in my interest to keep this from you.

Maybe I can't fire you or reduce your wages, but I can transfer you to the Asshole Department where you belong. Sociopathic liars like you are why the rest of us suffer with fucked up HR rules and ridiculous corporate policies.

 

[DCal430]

Maybe I can't fire you or reduce your wages, but I can transfer you to the Asshole Department where you belong. Sociopathic liars like you are why the rest of us suffer with fucked up HR rules and ridiculous corporate policies.

Keeping a major disability secret during the hiring process isn't lying, it is being smart.

 

[davmat787]

DCAL, they are less able. WTF do you think the 'dis' prefix is doing in front of 'ability' in the word 'disability'. FFS, do you have a learning disability or something? Your posing history suggests this is the case.

And for what it is worth, I am on disability, though the vast majority of it comes from a private insurance policy I had. An 80 pound box of wood fell straight on top of my head from 12 feet and turned my neck vertebrae into shards and ruptured several discs. Years later I developed wry neck syndrome and cervical dystonia as a result, of which there is no cure. I managed to work for over 10 years as a full time Microsoft employee until the chronic pain and migraines were simply too overwhelming.

I taught myself enough coding to land that job, and having grown up in Redmond before even Building 1 was built I still have a hard time driving by the campus as I miss the stimulation and smart people so damn much.

 

[Doppel]

This is why disabled people should never reveal their disability before being hired.

Lets say my corrected vision is 20/800, and I am unable to read any text smaller than typical size 124 without magnification. If I revealed this fact before being hired in the interview, their is a good chance you either won't hire me, or decide to pay me a lower wage. If I wait until after I am hired to reveal this fact, you can't fire me, and you can't reduce my wages. It is in my interest to keep this from you.

Oh, child, you don't think employers can find another reason to get rid of you? They don't need to say it's because you're blind. You are fantastically naive in all of your threads, it is so crystal clear that you're young. You just know very little.

 

[Vic Vega]

A blind person is just as productive as anyone else they not deserve to be treated and exploited in this manner.

You don't honestly believe that, do you?

You're a troll and a bad one. Welcome to ignore.

 

[rockyct]

My sister is severely disabled (mentally and physically) and goes to a day program for people like her. At the program there are basically two different groups, those who can do some types of jobs, and those who basically can't do anything. They are split into smaller groups, but that's generally how it's laid out. All of these people have mental disabilities though so it's not like blind or deaf people are being taken advantage of here.

My sister falls into the group that really can't do anything so I'm only partially familiar with the people who can do some types of jobs. If they work at the "workshop", they do get way less than minimum wage but it's also very repetitive and low skill type jobs. The local casinos are actually a big supporter of the program because one of jobs at the workshop is to rebuild decks of cards so that they can be sold at the casino as a souvenir. Most of the things they do are like this and involve sorting, packaging, etc. These are still very disabled people but they can do repetitive stuff. If they are "higher functioning", they go out into the community in groups and do jobs at places like Wal-Mart with their helper. I'm not sure how much these people get paid, but it's probably much closer to minimum wage.

In general though, these jobs are more for the benefit of the disabled person so they feel like they are doing something productive. It's not a significant source of income but since the day program facility gets some money for the work, they have to pass something on to the workers. They probably would be watching TV or doing coloring books otherwise, which they more or less do when they are done with the day program and go back to their group homes.

Anyway, I know it doesn't make sense that people with disabilities could be paid 20 cents/hour, but these programs are quite good as it's really designed for people with severe disabilities. It's not for people who have higher functioning autism, just in a wheelchair, bad back, deaf, etc. If they are working at a job similar to what a nondisabled person does, they will get a similar pay.

 

[DCal430]

My sister is severely disabled (mentally and physically) and goes to a day program for people like her. At the program there are basically two different groups, those who can do some types of jobs, and those who basically can't do anything. They are split into smaller groups, but that's generally how it's laid out. All of these people have mental disabilities though so it's not like blind or deaf people are being taken advantage of here.

My sister falls into the group that really can't do anything so I'm only partially familiar with the people who can do some types of jobs. If they work at the "workshop", they do get way less than minimum wage but it's also very repetitive and low skill type jobs. The local casinos are actually a big supporter of the program because one of jobs at the workshop is to rebuild decks of cards so that they can be sold at the casino as a souvenir. Most of the things they do are like this and involve sorting, packaging, etc. These are still very disabled people but they can do repetitive stuff. If they are "higher functioning", they go out into the community in groups and do jobs at places like Wal-Mart with their helper. I'm not sure how much these people get paid, but it's probably much closer to minimum wage.

In general though, these jobs are more for the benefit of the disabled person so they feel like they are doing something productive. It's not a significant source of income but since the day program facility gets some money for the work, they have to pass something on to the workers. They probably would be watching TV or doing coloring books otherwise, which they more or less do when they are done with the day program and go back to their group homes.

Anyway, I know it doesn't make sense that people with disabilities could be paid 20 cents/hour, but these programs are quite good as it's really designed for people with severe disabilities. It's not for people who have higher functioning autism, just in a wheelchair, bad back, deaf, etc. If they are working at a job similar to what a nondisabled person does, they will get a similar pay.

While the vast majority of the blind do not work and are on government assistance, a significant percentage of those are on these low paid jobs. So it isn't just for severe disability, unless you count blindness as a severe disability.

 

[BoomerD]

ONLY if/when the disabled person can do the same quality and quantity of work as the non-disabled person. Otherwise, they should become state employees.

 

[DCal430]

How would you feel if you became blind, the only jobs you could find paid less than $6 an hour, and are basically told to sign up for SSDI or SSI. Your main options are either being exploited or just not working and living off benefits.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

May I assume that all those in favor of lower minimum wages for the disabled are ok with removing the minimum wage altogether?

 

[BoomerD]

How would you feel if you became blind, the only jobs you could find paid less than $6 an hour, and are basically told to sign up for SSDI or SSI. Your main options are either being exploited or just not working and living off benefits.

If you become blind...can you still do your work at the level commensurate with your compensation? The world doesn't owe you a living...

 

[Doppel]

While the vast majority of the blind do not work and are on government assistance, a significant percentage of those are on these low paid jobs. So it isn't just for severe disability, unless you count blindness as a severe disability.

It is, but not as severe a disability as an acute mental disablement, and I think you're intimately familiar with what that is like.

How would you feel if you became blind, the only jobs you could find paid less than $6 an hour, and are basically told to sign up for SSDI or SSI. Your main options are either being exploited or just not working and living off benefits.

Geeze, I'd fucking love it! What sort of a question is this.

 

[aaksheytalwar]

1. I don't believe in having a minimum wage. Let the market decide.

2. The reason we have minimum wage is so that the poor/lower middle class doesn't suffer that much, the reason is to be fair and compassionate.

3. Keeping 2 in mind, the disabled should have a minimum wage rate much higher than regular people.

4. If 3 isn't possible, then there should be no minimum wage as the reason to have it is a fallacy in itself!

 

[NesuD]

Sorry but the generalizations put forth by the OP unfairly points a finger at Goodwill and this simply isn't accurate. Goodwill chapters are pretty much autonomous in most of their operations. Compensation policy is not set by the international organization. Each individual agency sets their own policy concerning minimum wage compensation. Fact is the majority of chapters treat the disabled no different than anyone else when it comes to compensation policy. Implying that all Goodwill chapters take advantage of the disabled paying only the disabled minimum wage is misleading and not even remotely accurate. The truth is actually quite the opposite.

OP should try doing a bit of research before he goes parroting things as fact.

 

[DCal430]

Sorry but the generalizations put forth by the OP unfairly points a finger at Goodwill and this simply isn't accurate. Goodwill chapters are pretty much autonomous in most of their operations. Compensation policy is not set by the international organization. Each individual agency sets their own policy concerning minimum wage compensation. Fact is the majority of chapters treat the disabled no different than anyone else when it comes to compensation policy. Implying that all Goodwill chapters take advantage of the disabled paying only the disabled minimum wage is misleading and not even remotely accurate. The truth is actually quite the opposite.

OP should try doing a bit of research before he goes parroting things as fact.

Fact is the National organization promotes the practice, Many of the largest disability organizations haven't been asking people to boycott Goodwill for shits and giggles.

This thread wasn't about Goodwill specifically, other organizations do the same thing, this is about the law in general.

 

[werepossum]

On the other hand sometimes there are costly and unreasonable requireme on society. Our ever screwed up state of NY requires that higher education effectivly pretend that disabilities don't exist. My wife had a student who is academically qualified to be a microbiologist so the school (which is private btw) cannot refuse her. The problem? She needs to be able to use a microscope and she's blind as a bat. The school has to hire someone at their expense to look for her and describe what she sees. That's what she wants to do so the guys with the power says that's how it is. She might as well be a blind bus driver.

Now that's stupid at the other extreme.

Jesus wept. A blind bus driver would actually make more sense.

DCAL, they are less able. WTF do you think the 'dis' prefix is doing in front of 'ability' in the word 'disability'. FFS, do you have a learning disability or something? Your posing history suggests this is the case.

And for what it is worth, I am on disability, though the vast majority of it comes from a private insurance policy I had. An 80 pound box of wood fell straight on top of my head from 12 feet and turned my neck vertebrae into shards and ruptured several discs. Years later I developed wry neck syndrome and cervical dystonia as a result, of which there is no cure. I managed to work for over 10 years as a full time Microsoft employee until the chronic pain and migraines were simply too overwhelming.

I taught myself enough coding to land that job, and having grown up in Redmond before even Building 1 was built I still have a hard time driving by the campus as I miss the stimulation and smart people so damn much.

Holy crap! Sorry to hear that. Could happen to any one of us. One of our guys had a similar experience with a metal ceiling at a prison collapsing (wasn't hung correctly) during an inspection. Our guy survived with no serious health issues, but the contractor (who was taller and was hit first) had shattered vertebrae and years later still has ongoing issues in trying to work.

 

[SheHateMe]

Keeping a major disability secret during the hiring process isn't lying, it is being smart.

That IS lying. And that is the opposite of being smart....


I have astigmatism and I am diabetic (my vision issues are not related to being diabetic) I always diclose that information to my employer. For starters, so my employer knows that my vision is being corrected (I wear contacts) so that this information is properly relayed to insurance because I am driving my employer's car.

I inform them that I am diabetic so that in the event I am working too hard and I pass out, they know they probably don't have to call 911 and to have someone test me for low blood sugar (and give me candy or use my glucose kit that EVERYONE knows how to use) first...which happens ALL the time. Especially if I go walking or running outside, I don't take a snack with me, if its hot..the heat gets me and have to take care of myself.


Since I am up front and honest with this to my employer, they know what my needs are. No, it has not lost me a job....but not being a jerk and concealing things from your employer and then having something happen involving you that they have no knowledge of is pretty lame, dude. And doing it becuase you are afraid to lose money is SUPER LAME.

It can also affect you personally. If you lied about a disability and got yourself seriously hurt or killed at work due to your condition, you put your employer in a bad spot. If I don't tell me employer that I get low blood sugar often and am in the danger zone one day because I skipped breakfast and lunch to work (this has happened) and die...thats my fault, becuase I didn't let them know that.

Don't be a jerk.

 

[DCal430]

So if you hired someone who you find out needs something like this:

to read documents,uses a white cane, and keeps this from you until after he is hired, you would plot against them, try to get rid of them?