Should conservative climate deniers be despised for the threat they pose...

[Londo_Jowo]

I'm waiting for people like Moonbeam to lead by example and turn off their computers to reduce electrical demand/CO2 emissions that are adding to the cause of man made global warming. However, we all know that's not going to happen as it far more important to talk about an issue rather than take real actions to solve it.

 

[piasabird]

I was taught to question things by my Computer systems Professor at the University I attended. His favorite saying was "so what?" This is like a conversation about Crationism vs Evolution. Since it does not really matter, so what? I am not conjuring up anything. I live in reality. Do you have some sort of stupid belief that all conservatives want the earth to end?

This crazy thought comes up "that conservatives have a brain defect". Maybe conservatives think that liberalism is a mental disease like Dr. Savage says. Did you know that Dr Savage has a phd in Botany? Did you know as a younger man he was searching for the cure to cancer?

Many people want to point out that there is a flaw or something is wrong, but often we have no viable solution to the problem. Sometimes a solution to a polution or an environmental problem, can just make matters worse. Go research how the EPA forced california to add MTBE to Gasoline causing ground water contamination. Then when the ill effects of this additive were known the EPA knowingly tried to use it in the midwest to get rid of it. The EPA can not be trusted.

http://www.epa.gov/mtbe/gas.htm

http://www.epa.gov/mtbe/faq.htm

 

[Brigandier]

Instead of wasting time trying to convince a bunch of brain dead idiots, we should be thinking up solutions.

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

I'm sorry but Science cannot prove but it can and with certain confidence levels suggest. You may hold a bowling ball and let it loose and predict it will fall down toward the earth surface, however, you cannot say it will always do that. You may say with a very high confidence level that it will fall but to say always and that it always has is not proof of the next time you let it loose.

You water point is well taken but water may be water and contain quantum bits that vary. You look to the observable and not to the totality which may be questionable. Are all the 'dark matter' bits of the proton the same exact bits in each bit of water? 90% of the proton is 'dark matter' and we don't have a clue what those virtual particles are... Proof also must consider infinite calculus. Perhaps Proof is in the eye of the observer and I'd not quibble with that notion... or using the Reasonable and Prudent doctrine you'd be on solid ground proclaiming you can prove water is as you say... While I'd say, 'perhaps' but I'm not certain to the exclusion of every other possibility.

I've thought about Climate Change for years now and still see bias on the part of just about everyone who is not a scientist.... Scientists are experts in their narrow fields but there are no Scientific Authorities.... I often wonder what the agenda is on both sides of the issue. It is not really obvious to me what reasons exist for folks to gather about them experts to defend their positions. The same data viewed differently suggests a lack of understanding of the issue as well as different equally viable data pointing in different directions is puzzling.

My particular science looks to this issue as an opportunity but in another arena all together. IOW, I see the positive of accepting Climate Warming as a means to provide technical economic benefit to the people while also maybe doing something reasonably prudent for the planet. We invest in asteroid destroyers on the oft chance it is needed because we both see the threat and the means to mitigate that... Why is this Climate issue different? We are ready to commit to war to deny some nuclear weapons which no doubt can alter the climate proximate to their detonation but that is more political some say... I say both are political and both are real and present dangers IF they are true... So... what is the convincing argument that they are or are not? I'd say that the legal terms are good for this too... Do you need 'beyond a reasonable doubt' or simply a 'preponderance of the evidence'?

Edit: It is plausible that from nothing something - a universe for instance - can come into existence thus negating the need for a creator... don't prove that a god don't exist but it suggests a god is not needed... In our Universe 'nothing' is unstable and will, according to quantum mechanics, always produce something. We know nothing for sure but act as if we do on many issues. I suggest we adopt an attitude toward all this Climate stuff which defaults toward what the truly independent scientific community produces and reject anything that has a bias potential... IOW, look first to the reason for the 'paper' and then to the data therein.

LR. Physics is physics in our universe. It always acts in the same way. If I let a balling bowl go in the Earth's gravity well and it doesn't fall to Earth, guess what? We have WAAAYYY bigger problems than global warming.

Nor am I rejecting anything about GW and I really wish people would stop making this ridiculous claim. I am pointing out that, based on the existing data we have and the conclusions we have extrapolated from it, we don't have a high enough confidence level yet to make determinations about how to resolve the issue.

Besides that, true science is about always questioning the conclusions no matter how airtight they seem to be. Claiming that we should just accept current findings on GW and stop any questioning is about as anti-science a stance as it gets.

 

[ericlp]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IM1-DQ2Wo_w

Who here has seen the Matrix? Well, I would imagine that all of you have but the above vid is why you'll never have an agreement on Global Warming. The reason why people don't give a shit about gas millage and turning off lights and spending a bit more money to buy a TV / Refrigerator that get's better efficiency over a cheaper brand.

My car get's 45 MPG ... It's not a hybrid.... I use less than 2KW a day I have a 47" LED TV and full Size modern refrigerator... How do I do it? I just inform myself of the brands that get better MPG or suck down lower watts. It's as simple as that. Most people don't care. They don't want to know... Most people buy something that has the highest watts ... The more the better!

Hell take a Gamers PC for example! Those 1500Watt Power Supplies with Dual 400 watt GPU's are pushing the envelope so high that most people with 14 wire have to run 12 gauge or even lower depending on the run from the fuse box.

Humans can not make the correct choice and will do whatever is necessary to win a race be driving or first person shooter. More Power, Taller Buildings, More people, MORE MORE MORE!!!!!!!! So no matter how many times you tell people we are fucking the planet ... They don't care...

For a long time I thought it was just religious people that didn't give a shit about our natural resources because what did they really care? If they die they will go to Heaven and in the bible it says do whatever you want... God will save you in the end. Use the earth as you see fit! Fuck everyone else. There is some truth to it, and it might be just an excuse but now I see it as it really depends on your job status (how much money your making) and your interests.

 

[cybrsage]

Instead of wasting time trying to convince a bunch of brain dead idiots, we should be thinking up solutions.

Any suggestion on a solution to making the bread dead idiots of the Church of the Man-Made Global Warming renounce their faith?

 

[cybrsage]

I'm waiting for people like Moonbeam to lead by example and turn off their computers to reduce electrical demand/CO2 emissions that are adding to the cause of man made global warming. However, we all know that's not going to happen as it far more important to talk about an issue rather than take real actions to solve it.

And those like him need to stop eating cow meat and using cow products, since methane is FAR worse for the planet than CO2. But that would mean they have to give up something themselves instead of demanding others do it...so it will not happen.

 

[Moonbeam]

TastesLikeChicken: Physics is physics in our universe. It always acts in the same way.

M: You go from your personal experience to what is true universally. You do not know, for example that physics always acts the same way or even what way it acts. Science is a presumption, unproven, that physical laws are the same universally. That assumption yields predictively successful results. It is known, for example that CO2 is a greenhouse gas and that humans are making a lot of it, so a reasoned argument goes that men may be causing the earth to warm. Other scientific theories predict what will happen if the average world temperature rises a certain number of degrees, or the effects of more CO2 on the acidity of the ocean etc. Another scientific fact that's been documented and peer reviewed is that the conservative brain doesn't reason well in the face of unpleasant facts. It goes into denial and starts using intelligence to invent rationalizations to deny these disturbing ideas. It is this predictive power of science that makes me question whether your brain should be held in contempt since conservatives can't rationally deal with their fear in a reasoned manner. And, as you say, we know, us rational types, that you always act true to your physics as you are doing here, insisting that science proves things and then waiting with your pecker exposed to the air, waiting for it to melt before you take any action.

TLC: If I let a balling bowl go in the Earth's gravity well and it doesn't fall to Earth, guess what? We have WAAAYYY bigger problems than global warming.

M: Now that's a very scientific theory for you. It just means your bolling ball is going to prove very valuable.

TLC: Nor am I rejecting anything about GW and I really wish people would stop making this ridiculous claim. I am pointing out that, based on the existing data we have and the conclusions we have extrapolated from it, we don't have a high enough confidence level yet to make determinations about how to resolve the issue.

M: Yes you are rejecting things about GW, for example, that in your opinion we don't have existing data to extrapolate from when others say we do. And what you are looking for, again, is proof you will never have. I am saying that you can't rationally appreciate the data because of a defect in your brain. I don't care, unless you get in my way as I try to exit your altered reality.

TLC: Besides that, true science is about always questioning the conclusions no matter how airtight they seem to be. Claiming that we should just accept current findings on GW and stop any questioning is about as anti-science a stance as it gets.

M: I'm with you there Bro, but I don't want to do that research in a oven. You are just showing your dementia, saying we should stand under falling bolling balls because maybe the law of gravity may have some new wrinkles we didn't predict. Science creates its own common sense. Don't breathe chlorine gas. Don't smoke on a pile of dynamite, don't burn all the coal in the earth or warm up the tundra where lots of methane gas will be created if the peat thaws and rots.

 

[Moonbeam]

Instead of wasting time trying to convince a bunch of brain dead idiots, we should be thinking up solutions.

This thread is about thinking up solutions to brain dead idiots. We have a number of folk at the center of the theater shouting fire and the numb nut conservatives at the exits saying their not moving till their pants burn up. Do such folk deserve contempt. Logic is useless on them.

 

[Londo_Jowo]

Maybe, just maybe those who are brain dead, defective, and lack logic are those who don't practice what they preach. Still waiting for these people to lead by example.

 

[Moonbeam]

And those like him need to stop eating cow meat and using cow products, since methane is FAR worse for the planet than CO2. But that would mean they have to give up something themselves instead of demanding others do it...so it will not happen.

Here is a fine example of conservative defective rationalizations. The assertion without evidence that cattle culture is more dangerous than fossil fuel production, that those who are for action on GW will not give up anything themselves. Thus does he deflect the real issues.

 

[monovillage]

This thread is about thinking up solutions to brain dead idiots. We have a number of folk at the center of the theater shouting fire and the numb nut conservatives at the exits saying their not moving till their pants burn up. Do such folk deserve contempt. Logic is useless on them.

No, this thread is mostly about you being an uninformed and biased political poster that would rather punish their children with false fears and exaggerations rather than giving them the truth. There's plenty of links to places you can become better informed on the subject, you should take advantage of them and learn more.

http://judithcurry.com/2012/12/28/can-we-avoid-fooling-ourselves/

How can scientists avoid fooling themselves. Humility is a start. Here are some additional suggestions from a post on criticalthinking.org entitled Valuable intellectual traits. The material is posted below in full with JC comments:................

 

[Moonbeam]

Maybe, just maybe those who are brain dead, defective, and lack logic are those who don't practice what they preach. Still waiting for these people to lead by example.

You should do some studies of them, like the ones who have identified those facts about conservative brains having all those traits. You might become famous. You may also try to invent a psychic remote viewing machine so you will actually know something about what efforts others are making in their lives to reduce their use of fossil fuels. You might also want to address systemic issues in the culture that hamper progress on these fronts in case individual efforts aren't where the big solutions lie. Remember, that every time you use your brain to move your fingers across your keyboard your conservative brain is lying to itself. You are defective and incapable of rational thinking. Do you despise yourself for it. Could be why you have so much trouble noticing your problem.

 

[Londo_Jowo]

You should do some studies of them, like the ones who have identified those facts about conservative brains having all those traits. You might become famous. You may also try to invent a psychic remote viewing machine so you will actually know something about what efforts others are making in their lives to reduce their use of fossil fuels. You might also want to address systemic issues in the culture that hamper progress on these fronts in case individual efforts aren't where the big solutions lie. Remember, that every time you use your brain to move your fingers across your keyboard your conservative brain is lying to itself. You are defective and incapable of rational thinking. Do you despise yourself for it. Could be why you have so much trouble noticing your problem.

I suspect I've done as much if not more to protect the environment than you have Moonie. I live in an energy efficient house (2008), I use natural gas for cooking/hot water, my electricity is comprised of 20% wind, and the appliances in my house are all energy efficient.

Due to the fact I'm a conservative and not sure how much of global warming/climate change is man made, I should be despised for taking these steps/making these decisions.

 

[Moonbeam]

No, this thread is mostly about you being an uninformed and biased political poster that would rather punish their children with false fears and exaggerations rather than giving them the truth. There's plenty of links to places you can become better informed on the subject, you should take advantage of them and learn more.

http://judithcurry.com/2012/12/28/can-we-avoid-fooling-ourselves/

Read a considerable amount at that link, thanks. I already told Chicken that I'm not any more convinced than he is that man is responsible for heating up the planet. However, the ideas behind the theory do make sense to me. I am more interested in the selective nature of data people chose to believe, and the incapacity of the conservative mind to rationally think. You don't see your profound bias like I do because you are a conservative. Your whole brain seems to be organized to deny and reality that threatens your ego. I am interested in keeping my ego's ass alive so I aim to understand reality head on. I got so good at this in my youth that I destroyed everything I ever believed. I know a great deal about denial since I sailed all the way down that river to the sea. I destroyed so much of my conservative nature that I've swung round to being one again. You are talking to somebody like yourself, knowing very very little or nothing, but with the added bonus of knowing it very well. My ego got so small and compressed it went through a worm hole to become the universe itself.

I defeated the nothing and came back to save you. It's just what big egos do.

 

[Moonbeam]

I suspect I've done as much if not more to protect the environment than you have Moonie. I live in an energy efficient house (2008), I use natural gas for cooking/hot water, my electricity is comprised of 20% wind, and the appliances in my house are all energy efficient.

Due to the fact I'm a conservative and not sure how much of global warming/climate change is man made, I should be despised for taking these steps/making these decisions.

Of course not. Only a guilt ridden conservative brain would even consider such a notion. Your brain defect makes it impossible for you to think logically about things that threaten your ego, and you see me as having done that. But the big issue that conservatives face is their feeling of shame. (Now this is an issue that liberals have too but can sometimes react to differently.)

Conservatives are too ashamed to feel shame because to them shame is shameful. They deflect from anything that makes them feel it. They are impervious to anything that would make them feel it like reality. That's why the altered bubble conservatives live in. In trying to find some way into that bubble, I postulated the notion that condemnation might work. If you can't reason with conservatives perhaps you can tell them they are shit often enough that they don't mind anymore. That's how I am. I know I feel so worthless that what others say to me just doesn't measure up to my own self condemnation. I can face reality because my inner reality is so very much worse. Being a worthless nobody has its hidden rewards.

Love you for the conservation you practice. Very conservative of you.

My feet are freezing in my wool socks, by the way, because I gots the thermostat down and am sitting on my ass instead of working.

 

[Londo_Jowo]

Of course not. Only a guilt ridden conservative brain would even consider such a notion. Your brain defect makes it impossible for you to think logically about things that threaten your ego, and you see me as having done that. But the big issue that conservatives face is their feeling of shame. (Now this is an issue that liberals have too but can sometimes react to differently.)

Conservatives are too ashamed to feel shame because to them shame is shameful. They deflect from anything that makes them feel it. They are impervious to anything that would make them feel it like reality. That's why the altered bubble conservatives live in. In trying to find some way into that bubble, I postulated the notion that condemnation might work. If you can't reason with conservatives perhaps you can tell them they are shit often enough that they don't mind anymore. That's how I am. I know I feel so worthless that what others say to me just doesn't measure up to my own self condemnation. I can face reality because my inner reality is so very much worse. Being a worthless nobody has its hidden rewards.

Love you for the conservation you practice. Very conservative of you.

My feet are freezing in my wool socks, by the way, because I gots the thermostat down and am sitting on my ass instead of working.

It's all good Moonie, one day you will outgrow the hate and anger you have for people you don't know or understand. You may even get to the point where you don't have to resort to name calling and insults or using profanity laced tirades towards people that don't agree with you.

 

[Moonbeam]

It's all good Moonie, one day you will outgrow the hate and anger you have for people you don't know or understand. You may even get to the point where you don't have to resort to name calling and insults or using profanity laced tirades towards people that don't agree with you.

Maybe when hell boils over from GW. Of course, what you mean by outgrow is to suppress and deny. "You may be a one eyed Jack, Dad, but I seen the other side of your face."

 

[Greenman]

This thread is about thinking up solutions to brain dead idiots. We have a number of folk at the center of the theater shouting fire and the numb nut conservatives at the exits saying their not moving till their pants burn up. Do such folk deserve contempt. Logic is useless on them.

That's an outright lie.
This thread was posted to insult anyone that disagrees with you, and to stir up controversy. It's about the arrogance of one person that's decided that anyone that disagrees with him has a brain defect. It's about gathering together others with the same inflated self image so you can jerk each other off, then all talk about what a great lay you are. This is simply another worthless Moonbeam "I hate everyone that disagrees with me" thread.

Here's a question for you mooney. Have you ever looked at the actual co2 production numbers? Have you tracked down the estimates for how much co2 is naturally produced? How about the amount that is absorbed into the environment and used by plants? Do you know what happens when the oceans absorb excess co2? Have you actually looked at the raw data and done the calculations? I have.

 

[Londo_Jowo]

Maybe when hell boils over from GW. Of course, what you mean by outgrow is to suppress and deny. "You may be a one eyed Jack, Dad, but I seen the other side of your face."

No, I mean when you outgrow this phase of insulting, berating, and using profanity laced language towards people who do not agree with your views maybe, just maybe they may actually consider your viewpoint. Until then those on the receiving end of your tirades just accept the fact it's easier to ignore whatever you have to say rather than sort through the tirades to see if there's anything worthwhile to consider.

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

Instead of wasting time trying to convince a bunch of brain dead idiots, we should be thinking up solutions.

Let me tell you something about brain dead idiots...they're much more stupid than you can possibly imagine.

 

[Moonbeam]

No, I mean when you outgrow this phase of insulting, berating, and using profanity laced language towards people who do not agree with your views maybe, just maybe they may actually consider your viewpoint. Until then those on the receiving end of your tirades just accept the fact it's easier to ignore whatever you have to say rather than sort through the tirades to see if there's anything worthwhile to consider.

Yup, truth is always conditional with the conservative mind. If you can just put a pretty package on it, some nice feminine perfume, play some soft music and make it warm and fuzzy, they will eat it up willingly. Hehe, the only person you are kidding is yourself. My language has been very nice in this thread.

 

[Londo_Jowo]

Yup, truth is always conditional with the conservative mind. If you can just put a pretty package on it, some nice feminine perfume, play some soft music and make it warm and fuzzy, they will eat it up willingly. Hehe, the only person you are kidding is yourself. My language has been very nice in this thread.

Your language has been milder in this thread however, your insults and name calling have been right on par with your normal modus operandi. You're the one kidding yourself if you think people take what you say seriously.

Have a super sparkly day!!!!

 

[xj0hnx]

That's an outright lie.
This thread was posted to insult anyone that disagrees with you, and to stir up controversy. It's about the arrogance of one person that's decided that anyone that disagrees with him has a brain defect. It's about gathering together others with the same inflated self image so you can jerk each other off, then all talk about what a great lay you are. This is simply another worthless Moonbeam "I hate everyone that disagrees with me" thread.

Here's a question for you mooney. Have you ever looked at the actual co2 production numbers? Have you tracked down the estimates for how much co2 is naturally produced? How about the amount that is absorbed into the environment and used by plants? Do you know what happens when the oceans absorb excess co2? Have you actually looked at the raw data and done the calculations? I have.

+1∞

This post is spot on 100% accurate.

 

[Lizardman]

IMHO they should not be despised. We just need to work on removing the smokescreen and further critical thinking education.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B4j5IzhEmXQ


Also a related video (Jared Diamond: Thoughts on Managing Change)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKx08FOGU2g