Should conservative climate deniers be despised for the threat they pose...

[xj0hnx]

It is quite possible that the sun and the solar system and the temp of the earth's core or magnetic changes in the earth, cause global temp changes. Weather is always changing. It has been since the Earth formed.

FTFY

So how long have we had Temperature figures and how old is the earth?

If you were to scale it to Earth's existence we have something like the equivalent of .000000002 seconds with weather data.

This thread is a good example of why I usually don't discuss climate change anymore. I'll vote for any politician that suggests he might do something about it, but the diologue at this point has deterioriated to the childish refusal to accept basic scientific findings and deliberate misrepresentations of peoples concerns. So fuck it, I'm not going to sit here and get trolled. Sit there and type out all your clever little one liners and post your smug little links until you're blue in the face and a mud slide is carrying your house away.

You and Moonie, and a couple that haven't posted yet but surely will, have it wrong, and that's your problem. I don't think there's anyone that denies that the Earth's climate changes. The argument is if man did it, or could even stop it if he tried. That and the steps that the left/progressives want to force on everyone, carbon taxes, as if that is going to stop multi-billion dollar multinational corporations from anything, and not completely fuck everyone that isn't.

I do wish that climate change deniers would register (and I would be happy to recipricate as a climate change believer) with their information so when we have 10 hurricanes a year, rising seas and famine, people know who to thank, and with our idiodic gun laws, they can thank them in the most effective way possible (interesting that climate change deniers and gun nuts seem to be largely the same crowd).

Yea, we could get them to wear a little emblem to separate them, maybe a little star or something. Always good identify and segregate those that don't think like you right?

 

[Moonbeam]

So now we are filthy brain dead scum? I thought you were advocating that conservatives weren't dumb at one point?

Liberal answer to polution: Carbon tax.

That will fix everything.

See, you are very clever but you completely fail to understand. A carbon tax may be a very good idea, but it won't fix pollution all by itself and even a simple palliative like a carbon tax would never get past the house of filthy brain dead representatives. Those dissembling scum bags would just point at China.

Are you proud that your brain defect is causing the destruction of the world?

Can you see you prefer to sleep your way to extinction? You know you have to have be suffering terrible pain to want to hide like that, no?

 

[Jaskalas]

Maybe this should be made clearer.

We're not the "problem".

 

[Matt1970]

See, you are very clever but you completely fail to understand. A carbon tax may be a very good idea, but it won't fix pollution all by itself and even a simple palliative like a carbon tax would never get past the house of filthy brain dead representatives. Those dissembling scum bags would just point at China.

Are you proud that your brain defect is causing the destruction of the world?

Can you see you prefer to sleep your way to extinction? You know you have to have be suffering terrible pain to want to hide like that, no?

Are you proud you don't see that we are already cleaning up our act and the real problem lies elsewhere? I am not a climate change denier, I am a realist. Data proves you wrong as to who is to blame yet you insist on saying anyone who differs from you is out to destroy the world.

 

[xj0hnx]

See, you are very clever but you completely fail to understand. A carbon tax may be a very good idea, but it won't fix pollution all by itself and even a simple palliative like a carbon tax would never get past the house of filthy brain dead representatives. Those dissembling scum bags would just point at China.

Are you proud that your brain defect is causing the destruction of the world?

Can you see you prefer to sleep your way to extinction? You know you have to have be suffering terrible pain to want to hide like that, no?

You should immediately unplug everything in your house, especially your computer, and any routers you may have, the electricity you are using is killing your brain, and draining your soul.

 

[SandEagle]

what ever happened to that big hole in the ozone layer that we were all afraid of back in the 80s? haven'rt heard a peep on it in over 20 years

 

[Matt1970]

what ever happened to that big hole in the ozone layer that we were all afraid of back in the 80s? haven'rt heard a peep on it in over 20 years

Oh ya, the hole that we knew wasn't there before but had no proof of.

 

[dank69]

what ever happened to that big hole in the ozone layer that we were all afraid of back in the 80s? haven'rt heard a peep on it in over 20 years

Maybe because the shit that was causing that was banned 20 years ago?

 

[xj0hnx]

Maybe because the shit that was causing that was banned 20 years ago?

Worldwide? Nope ...next!!!

 

[Matt1970]

Worldwide? Nope ...next!!!

CFC (Freon) debate will go on forever probably but we had to do it to save the planet right? The critics against the ban make a pretty good case and as xj0hnx pointed out it is still used quite extensively around the world. It is a little suspect that a chemical that DuPont had a patent on that was about to expire gets banned and replaced with another product that low and behold DuPont has a patent on. Freon supposedly gets into the upper atmosphere while being up to 4 times heavier than air, has the chlorine molecule released by UV rays and the chlorine turns O3 into O2 which is less reflective of the harmful UV rays, but we use Chlorine everywhere.

 

[Lemon law]

Maybe you should look elsewhere, you know, outside the US and towards Asia. I'm sure, given the subject matter, you'd be crazy enough to advocate nuclear war to stop this "threat" of developing nations from emitting more CO2.

Our emissions are naturally reducing from our abundant natural gas utilization. Theirs is skyrocketing.

USA CO2 emissions may drop to 1990 levels this year
India, China power CO2 emissions growth in 2012 - study

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Despite the Jaskalas makes some good points, I think he shows little understanding of the real problems. (1) MMGW is a international problem. Pretending ALL HUMANS ARE NOT EQUALLY AT RISK or that blaming only the other country does noting to mitigate our common risks! (2) MMGW is no longer just about Carbon. As methane, 17 times more effective than CO2 as a greenhouse gas is bubbling out of soils in the arctic and Antarctic regions at ever accelerating rates. Not to mention the facts that we have trillions of tons of carbon locked up in shallow seas in the form of meta stable methane hydride deposits. And yes there is evidence that has happened once or twice in the geological past, causing a run away heat engine for tens of thousands of years, as the oceans turn super toxic. (3) Natural gas is still a greenhouse gas, even if it not as bad as coal. (4) Even if we do not yet understand why, MMGW is more about how the earth distributes the sunlight energy that comes in as a rough constant every years. As no one yet has a climate model that explains why most of the MMGW shows up at our North and South Poles and little of the increased MMGW shows up near the equator where it is predicted to be. (a) thus melting most of the ice locked up in glaciers and instead raising sea levels. (b) and also meaning we humans may find, those farming areas that now produce the most food, could turn into deserts, as winds and ocean currents reach a irreversible tipping point. Who knows as we play Russian roulette with our climate. And even if our world deserts get blessed with rain, it will take thousand of years to build up the desert soils so they can produce food crops.

 

[werepossum]

+1 indeed.

I certainly want science advise from chicks who think feel they'll look hot if they just make their hair look like roadkill.

 

[piasabird]

There are a lot of problems having to do with pollution. China has polluted much of its land and water to the point they are building a man made river over a mountain. However they have done this to themselves in an attempt to save money and corner the markets. It is pure greed.

In asia they also have an aversion to building landfills properly. Just leaving piles of garbage uncovered to be swept into streams and rivers and left to wash out to sea. So how is the USA going to convince these other countries to spend the money to make a cleaner safer world? This is not a USA problem, it is a matter of trying to lift up the living conditions of the rest of the world to approximate standards of the west.

If we could reduce waste, that might help also.

 

[Nemesis 1]

to life on earth?

What do you do when an millions of idiots are holding a gun to your head because they live in an alternate universe too afraid to face reality? What to do when a hallucinating psychopath tries to grab the wheel and drive over a cliff for safety?

Conservatives are bad bad poo poo.

Why don't you stop . What part of the whole solar system is heating up don't you understand. Its science fact . I suppose we have so much self hate were projecting it upon the whole solar system .

 

[Moonbeam]

+1 indeed.

I certainly want science advise from chicks who think feel they'll look hot if they just make their hair look like roadkill.

Looks like a werepossum to me. But if you think a bit about what you said, the science on climate warming doesn't come from her. It is a consensus of many many scientists. This is just an example of illogical thinking common among people who use their intelligence to deflect information unacceptable to their egos. Basically, you are stuck in an infantile state, a kind of intellectual tantrum, and you are killing the world. Don't you feel good? Don't you think all the dead children your denial will create should wish you a long pleasant life? When you look in the mirror shouldn't you see the monster you are? Try to be honest and real.

 

[piasabird]

What will happen with any kind of carbon tax?
Energy will cost more
Gas prices will increase

The EPA is already trying to close down all the coal plants.

Where do you plan on getting this power from?
How much will you pay for it?

Instead of saying we will make it difficult for coal power plants, we need to come up with some viable alternatives. In Germany they came up with this plan where they guaranteed that the government run power would purchase solar power for a predetermined set min rate. This encouraged development of privately owned power generation. Things like this are what we need to consider. Maybe it has a socialism component, but government by definition is somewhat socialist to begin with.

Why do you want to conjure up a conservative Boogy-Man? People just want to live within their means.

 

[Screech]

Maybe this should be made clearer.

We're not the "problem".

I like how this post gets ignored.

There are very good reasons the US should get off of fossil fuels and look towards renewables but right now those have more to do with national security (especially economic) than other factors.

 

[Nemesis 1]

The earth has a wobble . every 72 years that wobble advances 1 degree. It takes 26,,000 years to complete the 360degree wobble . This in itself causes climates to change
But lets not discuss the things we know and understand. Lets go for the gooberment polution tax . They will make up all kinds of lies to get from point A to point B .

1 degree every 72 years x360 degrees= 25,920 years . 11,000 years ago was last ice age . we are now about to end that 26,000 period and begin anew. We are in the warming period which should last sometime befor next ice age

 

[Lemon law]

Why don't you stop . What part of the whole solar system is heating up don't you understand. Its science fact . I suppose we have so much self hate were projecting it upon the whole solar system .

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Nemeses quotes a science fact that is in fact a past tense fact and no longer true.

Simply because the l output of our sun varies yearly, mainly guided by a 11 sun spot cycle. When sunspots were at a peak a decade ago, all planets in our solar system warmed as a result, but for most of the last decade, sunspots were at a minimum. And thus all planets in our solar system cooled as a result. With the lone exception being the earth. As it kept warming anyway.

But now that we are in another high point in the sunspot cycle, the earth is really overheating while other planets only start to slightly warm.

 

[werepossum]

Yes, I did think about that, and I don't really have the answer. I have friends that are homophobes, I have friends that are racists, I have friends who think that people on welfare should be sent to Afghanistan to be used as human shields, and yes, I have friends who are climate change deniers. I wouldn't count any of these people as close friends, but I keep them as friends none the less. I have often wondered why I do this, and I think it's because I've decided that we are a country full of people with insane ideas and views, and whether those views are delivered by FoxNews, the pulpit, Rush, Sean, or wherever, if I limit myself to friendships to people with what I would consider sane viewpoints, I would be very lonely indeed.

Also, I know that views can evolve. When I was much younger (teenager) I was homophobic. I've come to not only shed that view, but to be as vociferous as I can on the issue and defend homosexuals when I have the chance. But climate change is a different animal. What will I do if the earth is severely damaged in 20-30 years and people start saying "oh yes, I suppose I was wrong about that"? At that point it is too late.

I too was homophobic as a teenager, and I was also adamant that mankind was forcing the Earth into a new ice age. Turns out not so much, so forgive me if I fail to embrace the new projected catastrophe with as much enthusiasm as the left might wish. I remain agnostic about the degree to which human activity is affecting climate and very agnostic about the catastrophic results bound to ensue. Curiously, the very actions required to combat the coming catastrophic ice age - loss of individual transportation in favor of public transit, moving humanity into high density housing, increased government control, lower individual energy budgets set by government - seem to be the same actions required to combat catastrophic man-made global warming.

Nonetheless, there are things which I do agree are common sense and should be pursued. Alternatives to oil make sense on many levels. Increased energy efficiency in housing/commercial buildings, transportation, and electronics makes sense - one of the big reasons we're projected to regain some manufacturing is our low energy costs, and using less reduces price pressures. High CO2 levels increase ocean acidity, causing many bad effects on already-stressed marine ecosystems, as well as increasing aquatic ecosystems' acidity and increasing erosion, so producing less and sequestering more CO2 is smart. I will likely remain forever resistant however to this notion of science as G-d, requiring us all to pledge allegiance to whatever theory is currently popular and turn over control of society to government on its behalf.

 

[piasabird]

What stopped the last ice age? Do you know that?

Did the Earth Warm itself up?

The Earth also increases in mass There is a lot of debri in space and it slowly through gravity settles on the earth as dust. Very Very Very Slowly. We also have meteor Showers every year. Normally they burn up in the atmosphere and the dust settles.

 

[werepossum]

Looks like a werepossum to me. But if you think a bit about what you said, the science on climate warming doesn't come from her. It is a consensus of many many scientists. This is just an example of illogical thinking common among people who use their intelligence to deflect information unacceptable to their egos. Basically, you are stuck in an infantile state, a kind of intellectual tantrum, and you are killing the world. Don't you feel good? Don't you think all the dead children your denial will create should wish you a long pleasant life? When you look in the mirror shouldn't you see the monster you are? Try to be honest and real.

Nothing more scientific than "do as I say or the Earth shall perish and children shall die."

Global warming - allowing otherwise useless people to feel important without actually doing anything of substance since the demise of the coming ice age.

 

[piasabird]

Liberals always revert to name calling if they have no valid points. So if they can not win a discussion they call you ignorant. Isnt this against posting rules?

 

[Moonbeam]

Liberals always revert to name calling if they have no valid points. So if they can not win a discussion they call you ignorant. Isnt this against posting rules?

Science has diagnosed you with a brain that doesn't use intelligence to reason but to protect against real facts that are emotionally painful to your egos. You would rather die than wake up and kill the world with your sleep. What do you want to be called? What if reality is against posting rules, your rules? How do you proposed that people who can reason deal with the sad brain defective who can't? What do you do with psychopaths who are trying to kill you? Shouldn't the dangerous be in some kind of danger themselves, or do you want to execute the world guilt free? Any ideas? That's a tough question to ask somebody who can't think, no?

 

[Moonbeam]

Nothing more scientific than "do as I say or the Earth shall perish and children shall die."

Global warming - allowing otherwise useless people to feel important without actually doing anything of substance since the demise of the coming ice age.

You can't think rationally so you personalize the issue to mean that I am telling you what to do. But think along the lines that reality is telling you, not me. The facts are in. You just don't see them as facts. This is because your brain is defective. You are like a man who thinks his wife is a hat? You live in an altered reality. You can't see how sick you are. But folk not similarly defective can. What are we going to do with people like you, let all the children die because truth hurts your feelings?