Should Apple even produce desktops/laptops?

[runawayprisoner]

The global marketshare of Mac OSX is something like 8%, but that's still a lot when you consider all of the global companies.

Beyond that, you are looking at roughly a demographic of 500,000,000 people willing to pay the Apple premium on their computer devices. It's absurd when you compare it to how much cheaper you can get your PC computer pieced together complete with the best operating system you can put in for some long-term gaming effect. But at the same time, Mac OSX is not officially available outside of the platform, and users looking for ease of use and convenience of a Mac system would undoubtedly fork over the cash to avoid the hassle.

 

[ChAoTiCpInOy]

It's absurd when you compare it to how much cheaper you can get your PC computer pieced together complete with the best operating system you can put in for some long-term gaming effect.

For gaming...not everyone wants to game on their computer.

 

[airdata]

You make more money if people have to buy a $1500 computer system to run your OS.

If Microsoft get's sued for packaging it's own internet browser w\ it's operating system... I honestly can't see how apple hasn't been sued for not openly releasing it's software.

 

[James Bond]

I wholeheartedly agree with James Bond, but Apple does NOT have 20% global PC market share. (If they did, their stock would be well over $500/share.) Without consulting the actual numbers, 20% share would be #2 close behind HP. Apple IS very strong in retail channels in the U.S. but I don't think they're even close to 20% domestic market share yet. As akugami said, Apple does have a lion's share of profits (if not outright #1 just for client PCs).

Apple's global PC market share is relatively small, I don't think they're even in the top 5 yet. And it's growing briskly in the the Far East, call it the iPhone halo effect if you must.

http://www.tuaw.com/2010/10/20/apple-mac-sales-could-sustain-a-fortune-500-company-by-itself/

One in five PCs sold in the United States is a Mac, making up 20.67% of U.S. consumer market share, and bringing in triple the amount of money the Mac has earned since fiscal year 2005.

They don't have 20% market share, but they are currently selling 20% of new PC's... Unless I'm misunderstanding.

 

[Fingolfin269]

http://www.tuaw.com/2010/10/20/apple-mac-sales-could-sustain-a-fortune-500-company-by-itself/



They don't have 20% market share, but they are currently selling 20% of new PC's... Unless I'm misunderstanding.

The point is you showed 20% of the US and then stated 20% of the world in a later post. It's still a nice slice of pie just not as big.

 

[speg]

If Microsoft get's sued for packaging it's own internet browser w\ it's operating system... I honestly can't see how apple hasn't been sued for not openly releasing it's software.

Small market share.

 

[manly]

http://www.tuaw.com/2010/10/20/apple-mac-sales-could-sustain-a-fortune-500-company-by-itself/



They don't have 20% market share, but they are currently selling 20% of new PC's... Unless I'm misunderstanding.

We're in agreement on the health of the Mac business, as I said previously. As your reference charts, Mac is still 1/3 of a $70B company. So the OP's question is preposterous.

Two things about the 20% share announcement, what's stated as "consumer" sales I paraphrased as retail. I think the IDC (and Gartner) figures are more representative of the overall PC industry. In 2010 Apple was #4 IIRC.

Secondly, Apple is recently very strong in the U.S. But according to IDC, they're #6 in the world. Apple's international growth is outpacing U.S. growth as it started from a much smaller baseline.

Honestly I don't even care that much about market share, the trendlines are certainly very important but Apple's margins are many times the industry average. It's not much different in mobile phones, still a small piece of the whole pie but the iPhone dominates profits.

 

[mammador]

That's like asking if Microsoft should keep making home operating systems.

MS' star product is Windows. Apple's star product is the iPhone. It's not comparable.

Apple, ever since the IBM clone became the standard personal computer format, has been a small player in PC terms. If I were Jobs, I would seriously consider ditching the PC line, or having Windows on my PCs. At least this way, users could have a choice between MacOS or Windows, and it would make Apple PCs more marketable to the Windows crowd.

 

[manly]

MS' star product is Windows. Apple's star product is the iPhone. It's not comparable.

Apple, ever since the IBM clone became the standard personal computer format, has been a small player in PC terms. If I were Jobs, I would seriously consider ditching the PC line, or having Windows on my PCs. At least this way, users could have a choice between MacOS or Windows, and it would make Apple PCs more marketable to the Windows crowd.

did the OP travel back to 2005 to make this post???

 

[Emulex]

windows server pretty much owns the enterprise. apple has given up on their xserve (poor move albeit poor server os product). Sql server/exchange. nothing so far can replace it entirely. people with their blackberries seem to dump tons of money on it.

Good thing is the windows 7 (8 etc) will benefit from the technologies from their server product.

OSX benefits from the IOS products - totally different approach.

 

[sourceninja]

Honestly, I keep growing into a bigger and bigger apple fanboy. Recently, I decided to ditch my cable tv service. I first bought a appletv but found it insufficient for my needs. My next decision was to build a htpc. After researching cases, micro-atx, nettops, etc I realized the best choice in size, nose level, and power was a mac mini.

I bought it, it fits in wonderfully with my entertainment center, it's dead quiet, and only a slight bit more then a nettop computer. A 649.00 purchase just saved me 1000 a year.

 

[Nothinman]

Lol. Ok man.

Look you can spin it however you want. Apple sells 20% of all computers in the WORLD. I don't know how you can actually try and make that sound like a "small" number.

And no, they aren't competing with themselves, they are competing with the entire computer market. Some people prefer Mac OS, and if you do, then you buy a Mac. Case closed. That's all there is to it. If you think that that is somehow unfair, please explain.

And you appear to be delusional about how much an Apple computer actually costs. You're right, they cost more than the average Dell, but it's not like they are twice as much. This argument has been brought up about 500 times, so you can read past threads if you want comparison, but the verdict is that a MacBook Pro costs about as much as a similarly spec'd Dell.

Edit: As a side note, I have NEVER purchased a Mac.

I'm not spinning anything, the article makes no mention of the timeframe that the 20% number applies to. It's not like they've been selling 20% of PCs forever, otherwise they'd a lot larger than the single digit marketshare they have now. Selling 20% of PCs for 1 quarter or 1 month doesn't mean jack compared to Dell or HP which have been selling easily double that consistently for the past 15 years. Sure, it's nice for Apple right now but doesn't mean anything in the big picture.

They are most definitely only competing with themselves right now. Pretty much everyone sees Macs as separate from Dell, HP, IBM, etc because OS X doesn't run Windows software. And no, Parallels or VMware don't count. When a regular person looks at getting a new PC thy think "Windows or Mac" not "HP or Apple". If Apple wasn't only competing against themselves MS wouldn't have a monopoly on their market and they wouldn't be able to sustain that level of markup.

I'm not confused about pricing at ll, a Mac Pro starts at $2500, that's probably about double the cost of a comparable Dell. The laptops are more reasonable, yes, but I was talking about desktops. And I won't even consider the iMac or Mac Mini because they're practically closed boxes.

They don't have 20% market share, but they are currently selling 20% of new PC's... Unless I'm misunderstanding.

But what does "currently" mean. 2011? Last quarter of 2010? Last week? Yesterday? The number means nothing without context.

 

[TheStu]

I'm not spinning anything, the article makes no mention of the timeframe that the 20% number applies to. It's not like they've been selling 20% of PCs forever, otherwise they'd a lot larger than the single digit marketshare they have now. Selling 20% of PCs for 1 quarter or 1 month doesn't mean jack compared to Dell or HP which have been selling easily double that consistently for the past 15 years. Sure, it's nice for Apple right now but doesn't mean anything in the big picture.

They are most definitely only competing with themselves right now. Pretty much everyone sees Macs as separate from Dell, HP, IBM, etc because OS X doesn't run Windows software. And no, Parallels or VMware don't count. When a regular person looks at getting a new PC thy think "Windows or Mac" not "HP or Apple". If Apple wasn't only competing against themselves MS wouldn't have a monopoly on their market and they wouldn't be able to sustain that level of markup.

I'm not confused about pricing at ll, a Mac Pro starts at $2500, that's probably about double the cost of a comparable Dell. The laptops are more reasonable, yes, but I was talking about desktops. And I won't even consider the iMac or Mac Mini because they're practically closed boxes.



But what does "currently" mean. 2011? Last quarter of 2010? Last week? Yesterday? The number means nothing without context.

The pricing issue has been done to death, but I will take one last swing at whatever is left of the horse.

If you are just saying that the Mac Pro is a desktop, then yes you can get a Dell, or build your own for much much less, maybe even half, that would match the Mac Pro on paper. And there is no reason not to, since almost no one actually needs the server hardware that the Mac Pro has. However, if you are actually comparing Apple's to apples, then you are speccing out an Optiplex or something similar and last I looked (a few months ago) they were about the same price.

I don't see all the hate for the iMac. No, you cannot replace the hard drive or the graphics card, but seriously, of the remaining 99.99999999999999% of the population that isn't us, that don't open up their computers, that is willing to pay Geek Squad $200 to run AV, that calls the tower the 'CPU', then they don't give a flip. You don't like, that's cool, but just because you cannot open it up and put in a new hard drive doesn't mean that anyone else cares.

 

[mugs]

I guess I'm the only one who noticed that it said consumer market share. That is, they're excluding sales to businesses. Since that's a market they've effectively given up on, they're measuring themselves against the market they're actually in.

Nothinman, I'm not sure you really understand what the OP was asking. People are offering reasons why Apple should stay in the PC market, which is in response to the OP's question "Should Apple even produce desktops/laptops?" You seem to be arguing about WHY Apple has high margins (which no one disputes) or WHY they're able to capture a decent market share (by eliminating direct competition). Those are great topics of discussion that certainly haven't been discussed to death all over the Internet. But why are you arguing with people who are giving the OP good answers to his question, when your arguments have nothing to do with his question?

 

[James Bond]

I'm not spinning anything, the article makes no mention of the timeframe that the 20% number applies to. It's not like they've been selling 20% of PCs forever, otherwise they'd a lot larger than the single digit marketshare they have now. Selling 20% of PCs for 1 quarter or 1 month doesn't mean jack compared to Dell or HP which have been selling easily double that consistently for the past 15 years. Sure, it's nice for Apple right now but doesn't mean anything in the big picture.

They are most definitely only competing with themselves right now. Pretty much everyone sees Macs as separate from Dell, HP, IBM, etc because OS X doesn't run Windows software. And no, Parallels or VMware don't count. When a regular person looks at getting a new PC thy think "Windows or Mac" not "HP or Apple". If Apple wasn't only competing against themselves MS wouldn't have a monopoly on their market and they wouldn't be able to sustain that level of markup.

I'm not confused about pricing at ll, a Mac Pro starts at $2500, that's probably about double the cost of a comparable Dell. The laptops are more reasonable, yes, but I was talking about desktops. And I won't even consider the iMac or Mac Mini because they're practically closed boxes.



But what does "currently" mean. 2011? Last quarter of 2010? Last week? Yesterday? The number means nothing without context.

You're a joke dude.

 

[mchammer187]

Since the iPhone/iPad/iPod are the bulk of Apple's revenue, should it focus on the Mac line again? The idevices have made Jobs an international celebrity after all lol..

thats like saying should we make 20 Billion this year or 15 billion this year

yea that 5 Billion pales in comparison to the 15 billion this year.

Yes it is not as profitable but to not do it is throwing money away. You could make the case if they were losing money on it but that is not the case at all.

 

[Nothinman]

The pricing issue has been done to death, but I will take one last swing at whatever is left of the horse.

If you are just saying that the Mac Pro is a desktop, then yes you can get a Dell, or build your own for much much less, maybe even half, that would match the Mac Pro on paper. And there is no reason not to, since almost no one actually needs the server hardware that the Mac Pro has. However, if you are actually comparing Apple's to apples, then you are speccing out an Optiplex or something similar and last I looked (a few months ago) they were about the same price.

I don't see all the hate for the iMac. No, you cannot replace the hard drive or the graphics card, but seriously, of the remaining 99.99999999999999% of the population that isn't us, that don't open up their computers, that is willing to pay Geek Squad $200 to run AV, that calls the tower the 'CPU', then they don't give a flip. You don't like, that's cool, but just because you cannot open it up and put in a new hard drive doesn't mean that anyone else cares.

The issue I have is that Apple doesn't offer a midrange PC. You either get an iMac which is virtually a set top box running OS X or a Mac Pro, there's no happy medium. I would consider buying one, if they offered it because I don't want to deal with building my own shit anymore. But I still want the option of opening it up and putting in an SSD or something if I want and Apple doesn't offer that unless I spend $2K.

You're a joke dude.

Please explain to me in what context that 20% is presented then, because I sure as hell don't see it in the article and that makes the number worthless.

 

[James Bond]

Please explain to me in what context that 20% is presented then, because I sure as hell don't see it in the article and that makes the number worthless.

Q4 2010, 20% of consumer PC's sold were from Apple.

That is billions of dollars.

Now, please explain to me why Steve Jobs would want to cut off 33% of Apple profits.

Consumers: "Here Mzinz, have this $100 bill and this $50 bill"
Mzinz: "Oh, thanks! I'll take the $100 bill, but I don't want the $50 because its less than the $100".

^ That is basically what you're saying.

 

[TheStu]

The issue I have is that Apple doesn't offer a midrange PC. You either get an iMac which is virtually a set top box running OS X or a Mac Pro, there's no happy medium. I would consider buying one, if they offered it because I don't want to deal with building my own shit anymore. But I still want the option of opening it up and putting in an SSD or something if I want and Apple doesn't offer that unless I spend $2K.

Apple is probably concerned that a midrange PC (single Core i7 or something similar, 4 RAM slots instead of 12, 2 drive bays instead of 4, that sort of thing) would cannibalize too many Mac Pro sales.

 

[silverpig]

Apple is probably concerned that a midrange PC (single Core i7 or something similar, 4 RAM slots instead of 12, 2 drive bays instead of 4, that sort of thing) would cannibalize too many Mac Pro sales.

I doubt that. If you're buying a $3k computer, you're in a different market.

The iMac IS the midrange PC.

mini = low
iMac = mid
Pro = high

It's a midrange PC that works well because 98% of users won't ever want to open the thing up.

 

[TheStu]

I doubt that. If you're buying a $3k computer, you're in a different market.

The iMac IS the midrange PC.

mini = low
iMac = mid
Pro = high

It's a midrange PC that works well because 98% of users won't ever want to open the thing up.

I don't disagree, but I think that nothinman wants them to make headless iMacs, in more conventional tower enclosures at either identical or lesser price points than the iMacs.

 

[silverpig]

I don't disagree, but I think that nothinman wants them to make headless iMacs, in more conventional tower enclosures at either identical or lesser price points than the iMacs.

Sure, but that doesn't really make sense for Apple to do. Midrange users want email and internet, facebook and iPhoto. They'll take their machine to Apple to get it fixed when it "gets slow", just like a PC midrange user will call up the geek squad.

People like him who know how to tinker with his computer are few and far between in the real world.

Yes, Apple is basically ignoring 2% of computer users, but they're doing a great job giving the other 98% something that they want. It doesn't make sense for Apple to add another product line to go after such a small demographic, especially when they'll just complain about the price when Apple tries to charge their standard margin.

 

[sportage]

Best tech decision I ever made was dumping windows based pc's and getting an iMac.
My world is so much more "sane".
Using my 27" iMac is a true pleasure.
It just works!
Anyone that uses a mac knows where Im coming from...
And I was a big time windows pc user...once.
Built them, upgraded them and maintained everyone’s pc, friend & family.
Now I won’t touch a windows based pc.
I don't even have a clue as to what version windows has out now.
When I dumped windows it was windows 7.
Apple gadgets like the iphone and appletv and ipad just compliment the mac computer, not challenge it.

 

[Nothinman]

Q4 2010, 20% of consumer PC's sold were from Apple.

That is billions of dollars.

Now, please explain to me why Steve Jobs would want to cut off 33% of Apple profits.

Consumers: "Here Mzinz, have this $100 bill and this $50 bill"
Mzinz: "Oh, thanks! I'll take the $100 bill, but I don't want the $50 because its less than the $100".

^ That is basically what you're saying.

Where did you see Q4 in that article?

Obviously as a for profit company their main objective is to make money and their customers are more than willing to dump truck loads of cash at their doorstop for no real reason. But I think if they could get their users to buy a new iSomething every year or 2 instead of a Mac Pro every 5-7 years they'd do that in an instant. Predictable recurring revenue is much better than unpredictable piecemeal purchases.