Should AMD include a better stock cooler on the Athlon x 4 860K?

Page 2 - Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.

Should AMD include a better stock HSF on the Athlon x 4 860K? (eg,125 watt AM3+ HSF)

  • Yes

  • No


Results are only viewable after voting.

cbn

Lifer
Mar 27, 2009
12,968
221
106
No they cant. The platform is 95W and would trigger a nightmare.

1.) AMD has exceeded the TDP of a platform before. (Eg, FX-9590).

2.) Even on the lower AM3+ boards, there are varying levels of BIOS support. (Some AM3+ boards only support 95 watt AM3+ processors, while others support 125 watts or even 140 watts.)

3.) Folks have overclocked existing FM2+ processors and their iGPUs (and disabled CPU throttling under iGPU load as well) to high levels on existing 95 watt boards. With this mentioned, I do not know much valid this is for making the argument to convert existing boards to 125 watt support or if new boards would need to be released. It might even be that FM2+ cannot be certified 125 watts for engineering/stability reasons I do not understand.
 

MiddleOfTheRoad

Golden Member
Aug 6, 2014
1,123
5
0
You know, it's called the stock cooler for a reason...... It's for running at stock.

You do realize that Intel and AMD both sell unlocked chips with stock coolers, right? The majority of unlocked chips probably aren't running at stock speeds.
 

ShintaiDK

Lifer
Apr 22, 2012
20,378
146
106
1.) AMD has exceeded the TDP of a platform before. (Eg, FX-9590).

2.) Even on the lower AM3+ boards, there are varying levels of BIOS support. (Some AM3+ boards only support 95 watt AM3+ processors, while others support 125 watts or even 140 watts.)

3.) Folks have overclocked existing FM2+ processors and their iGPUs (and disabled CPU throttling under iGPU load as well) to high levels on existing 95 watt boards. With this mentioned, I do not know much valid this is for making the argument to convert existing boards to 125 watt support or if new boards would need to be released. It might even be that FM2+ cannot be certified 125 watts for engineering/stability reasons I do not understand.

And it works on what, a whooping 3 boards? How many 125W CPUs you think they gonna sell on FM2+? How many will buy a new board just for that CPU?

Whatever people overclock is completely irrelevant. Because its not something AMD or the mobo maker needs to put a gauarantee on.
 

RadiclDreamer

Diamond Member
Aug 8, 2004
8,622
40
91
Lol you guys are funny, Linus just made a video about this and every amd cooler is better than intels stock cooler.

I really dont care what linus has to say, guy is a sales guy thats into tech, thats about it.

But, that being said, the intel cooler is pretty pathetic
 

cbn

Lifer
Mar 27, 2009
12,968
221
106
How many 125W CPUs you think they gonna sell on FM2+? How many will buy a new board just for that CPU?

That is a tough question.

How many existing FM2+ boards are overbuilt beyond the bare minimum specification for 95 watts? If so, by how much? 10 watts? 20 watts? 30 watts? Or more? (I know the higher end FM2+ boards have much better power delivery than the lower end FM2+ boards even though the official power rating is the same)

How much extra does a beefier stock cooler add to the retail price tag of a boxed processor?

P.S. Apparently there is some leeway in socket power ratings. For example, earlier Intel boards that were rated to handle up to 84 watt processors later added BIOS support to use the 88 watt i7-4790K.
 

ShintaiDK

Lifer
Apr 22, 2012
20,378
146
106
That is a tough question.

How many existing FM2+ boards are overbuilt beyond the bare minimum specification for 95 watts? If so, by how much? 10 watts? 20 watts? 30 watts? Or more? (I know the higher end FM2+ boards have much better power delivery than the lower end FM2+ boards even though the official power rating is the same)

How much extra does a beefier stock cooler add to the retail price tag of a boxed processor?

P.S. Apparently there is some leeway in socket power ratings. For example, earlier Intel boards that were rated to handle up to 84 watt processors later added BIOS support to use the 88 watt i7-4790K.

Wrong assumption. All LGA11xx boards are 95W. Thats simply the platform spec.

It doesnt really matter how much more a board is overdimensioned power wise. What matters is if the mobo maker wants to stand behind it and apply a warranty under these settings.

A bigger cooler obvious applies enough extra cost not to do it. How many people at AMD is to be layed of, just so they can add a bigger cooler that most people with the intent of overclocking replaces anyway?
 

DrMrLordX

Lifer
Apr 27, 2000
23,223
13,302
136
So you are mentioning bare die, I would actually take a BGA Processor with an unlocked multiplier.

Bare-die is old school though, like my old 1.4 ghz Tbird. I was sweating bullets as a PC builder noob, trying to mount a cooler on that thing. All you have to do is put the IHS in the package so people can put that guy on there if they want it (which I think a lot of people would, especially since some HSFs suck with bare die anyway, and bare die screws up a lot of mounting mechanisms).

Point is, they (AMD, Intel) save money by not having to solder or epoxy on the IHS (just provide a narrow band of epoxy as a mount guide for the IHS). The end user gets an IHS if they want it, or bare die if they don't.

As far as going BGA is concerned . . . my old AM3 board saw 3 different CPUs, and it would have been 4 if Thuban/Zosma prices weren't still so high. So I don't know if I can get behind that for normal desktop use.

(Apparently AMD APUs also use TIM now, not solder)

AMD APUs have used TIM since at least Trinity. It may be that Llano had no solder.

P.S. The processor could even be Carrizo (although I don't know if the HDL Excavator core scales well to higher TDPs)

If I were an HSA developer, I would definitely want access to commodity Carrizo FP4 BGA boards in something like MiniITX form factor. The very idea that I have to buy a whole laptop just to do proper HSA development with full iGPU context switching is laughable at best. Plus FP4 BGA Carrizo boards would be really sweet at cluster nodes for the right application/user.

How many existing FM2+ boards are overbuilt beyond the bare minimum specification for 95 watts?

If I had to guess, I'd say two: the A88x Pro and the Crossblade Ranger.

If so, by how much? 10 watts? 20 watts? 30 watts? Or more? (I know the higher end FM2+ boards have much better power delivery than the lower end FM2+ boards even though the official power rating is the same)

I have not personally found any upper limit on power delivery on my A88x Pro, though I am not running the most power-hungry APU (mine only has 384 shaders after all). The closest I ever got to power-related throttling was when I tried running Prime95 Small FFTs and Furmark on my 7700k simultaneously @ the full overclock (4.7 ghz, blah blah blah). That was with amdmsrtweaker forcing the P5 state to 4.7 ghz. At that point, the CPU reverted to the P4 state. So I forced P4 to 4.7 ghz and everything ran smoothly.

Note that I was using Small FFTs so the iGPU and CPU would not fight over memory bandwidth (they'll do that in Blend). Also, the thermal margin stayed below 80C so I wasn't getting that kind of throttling either.

Oh, and to address Shintai's assertion that only 3 AM3+ boards support the 9590: untrue. pcpartspicker lists 11 motherboards with BIOS support for that CPU. They may not support any overclocking with the chip - that is, you'd be stuck at the stock 4.7 ghz/5 ghz turbo. But they support the chip. Even the lowly ASRock 970 Performance has support for the 9370 and 9590.
 

cbn

Lifer
Mar 27, 2009
12,968
221
106
If I were an HSA developer, I would definitely want access to commodity Carrizo FP4 BGA boards in something like MiniITX form factor. The very idea that I have to buy a whole laptop just to do proper HSA development with full iGPU context switching is laughable at best. Plus FP4 BGA Carrizo boards would be really sweet at cluster nodes for the right application/user.

With FM2+ Mini-ITX boards being relatively expensive, I also have to wonder if Carrizo BGA Mini-ITX would be cheaper?

Next question (anyone): What obstacles exist for AMD to release BGA Carrizo with unlocked multiplier? For a mini-itx board it would be nice to get some extra performance out of the 35 watt chip. Furthermore, Carrrizo was originally rated at 65 watt for desktop (so the extra performance is presumably there). I guess it depends, in part, on whether or not the FP4 socket can route 65 watts or more?
 

cbn

Lifer
Mar 27, 2009
12,968
221
106
Oh, and to address Shintai's assertion that only 3 AM3+ boards support the 9590: untrue. pcpartspicker lists 11 motherboards with BIOS support for that CPU. They may not support any overclocking with the chip - that is, you'd be stuck at the stock 4.7 ghz/5 ghz turbo. But they support the chip. Even the lowly ASRock 970 Performance has support for the 9370 and 9590.

I think it is pretty amazing a non-FX chipset AM3+ motherboard for $86.99 AR, free shipping supports a 220 watt CPU:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813157577

13-157-577-TS