Should all utilities be publicly owned and controlled?

[UCDAggies]

Originally posted by: So

Originally posted by: UCDAggies

Originally posted by: So

Originally posted by: UCDAggies
Sad thing is, people around here tried to do it. But PG&E spent close to 15 million dollars on a campaign of lies and the measure to use ED to seize controle of PG&E assets was defeated. Sad indeed.

So, PG&E used part of the money they earned legitimately to convince the people that some special interest group's smash and grab tactics -- a plan to use the power of the government to steal their hard earned system from them -- to defeat that measure? Sounds like the sponsors of the measure owe PG&E 15 million so they don't have to affect the rates of everyone.

I wouldn't call the board of directors for a county and city board members a special interest group.

I would certainly call a small group of politicians making a call for an act that will substantially increase their personal power a special interest group.

You seem to advocate theft and justify it on the grounds of convenience and mob rule. I hope to god you never get any power.

Do you honestly think ED is government theft.

 

[UCDAggies]

Originally posted by: So

Originally posted by: UCDAggies

Originally posted by: So

Originally posted by: UCDAggies
Sad thing is, people around here tried to do it. But PG&E spent close to 15 million dollars on a campaign of lies and the measure to use ED to seize controle of PG&E assets was defeated. Sad indeed.

So, PG&E used part of the money they earned legitimately to convince the people that some special interest group's smash and grab tactics -- a plan to use the power of the government to steal their hard earned system from them -- to defeat that measure? Sounds like the sponsors of the measure owe PG&E 15 million so they don't have to affect the rates of everyone.

I wouldn't call the board of directors for a county and city board members a special interest group.

I would certainly call a small group of politicians making a call for an act that will substantially increase their personal power a special interest group.

You seem to advocate theft and justify it on the grounds of convenience and mob rule. I hope to god you never get any power.

Do you honestly think ED is government theft.

 

[UCDAggies]

Originally posted by: Wreckem

Originally posted by: UCDAggies

Originally posted by: K1052

Originally posted by: UCDAggies

Originally posted by: K1052

Originally posted by: UCDAggies
Private utility companies such as PG&E or SoCal Eddison need to make a profit for their shareholder so they have to charge more for energy. Public owned and operated companies don't make a profit, so they can be run more efficiently. I don't see why local governments aren't seizing control of private owned electric and other utility companies.

Nationalization would require an act of congress at the minimum. Not to mention I think it would get shot down quickly in the courts and rightfully so. The economic implications of outright theft (theoretically trillions of dollars) from millions of domestic and international investors bears some contemplation.

I am not talking about Nationalization, but rather local owned. Cities and counties seize control of the power lines and such and providing electricity them self.

You propose to seize substantial assets that were paid for by private money that exist on the books of companies as owned assets. Same difference.

They should be compensated for the fair market value. The local government can use eminent domain.

Most local governments couldnt afford to spend fair market value. Even the smallest power plants cost tens if not hundreds of millions of dollars.

They wouldn't have have to purchase the power plants, around here they weren't going too, since their weren't any. Just all of the power lines, transformers, and such. Their was a major dispute in FMV though, government said around 110 million, PG&E said over 500 million.

 

[So]

Originally posted by: UCDAggies

Originally posted by: So

Originally posted by: UCDAggies

Originally posted by: So

Originally posted by: UCDAggies
Sad thing is, people around here tried to do it. But PG&E spent close to 15 million dollars on a campaign of lies and the measure to use ED to seize controle of PG&E assets was defeated. Sad indeed.

So, PG&E used part of the money they earned legitimately to convince the people that some special interest group's smash and grab tactics -- a plan to use the power of the government to steal their hard earned system from them -- to defeat that measure? Sounds like the sponsors of the measure owe PG&E 15 million so they don't have to affect the rates of everyone.

I wouldn't call the board of directors for a county and city board members a special interest group.

I would certainly call a small group of politicians making a call for an act that will substantially increase their personal power a special interest group.

You seem to advocate theft and justify it on the grounds of convenience and mob rule. I hope to god you never get any power.

Do you honestly think ED is government theft.

When its used to no clear benefit for the public and the ONLY clear benefit is to politician's power, yes, I do think it's theft.

ED is for constructing important projects that might not be possible otherwise, not stealing.

 

[BrownTown]

Originally posted by: misle

Originally posted by: Wreckem
Most local governments couldnt afford to spend fair market value. Even the smallest power plants cost tens if not hundreds of millions of dollars.

You got that right. We just built a peaking generation facility. The two natural gas turbines cost $140 Million. That's just the turbines!

Wow, ya'll got screwed, TVA just paid 90 million for 11 combustion tubines with total capacity around 1200MW. And ya'll say public utilities are the ones wasting money .

NOTE: natural gas turbines are considerbly overbuilt in the southeast, one of the plants hadn't run in two years and the other ran a few days a year. One of them was acctually built as an Enron scam where they considerably overvalued it worth and claimed to make a large profit by saying their total assets had increased dramatically when in fact they hand't because the plant was never even used.

 

[3chordcharlie]

What's the question?

For efficiency? Equity? Ethics?

When you use the word 'all', the answer is probably 'no'.

 

[BoomerD]

I worked for a public utility for 7 years. Not a bad place to work, (decent wages, good benefits) but I gotta say, the people there weren't exactly setting any records for work efficiency. Think of all the bad stereotypes you know about state or city workers...they fit many of my former co-workers perfectly.
Slow down...we gotta make this job last all day."
"What's your hurry...we get paid by the hour."
"If we finish this job too soon, the NEXT one might not be as easy."
"What's large, white, and sleeps 6? A ***** line truck."

Good bunch of people, but the attitudes often made me wonder how they could stay in business. I worked most of my life on "hard money" construction jobs, where GO, GO, GO! was the norm..."No hurry, we get paid by the hour" just about drove me nuts...a NORMAL "for profit" company woiuldn't stay in business very long with that kind of attitude.
Sadly, it wasn't JUST the "workers" who were that way...management was the same way...In one performance review, my superintendant told me "If you don't develop an "I get paid by the hour" attitude, you'lll never make it here...

In spite of all that, our electric rates were about 40% lower than PG&E's, and ~10% lower than the neighboring PUD's rates.

 

[zephyrprime]

BoomerD shows how it really is. Public ownership is inefficient. Private ownership will charge up the wazoo. Either way, you are screwed but with public ownership, you are screwed less.

The only way private ownership would work well unregulated would be if people had the choice of several utility providers. Failing that, a regulated private utility is probably the best option.

 

[sdifox]

I don't have too much problem with private ownership, provided they do not own the land of the transmission lines. They do not pay FMV for the land so they should not be able to turn around and sell them at FMV when that section of land is no longer needed (gone underground or rerouted.)

 

[BoomerD]

There are some major improvements to the way the local PUD's are run that IMO would make things MUCH more efficient...
There are 2 PUD's side by side.
BOTH get their irrigation water from the same sources, both get MUCH of their electricity from the same plants, yet each is completely independant of the other.
one pays the other for maintenance of the power plants they share (yet only one actually maintains)
one pays the other for maintenance of the reservoir management, (yet only one actually does the maintenance)
EACH has its own electrical line crews, its own water distribution crews, and its own substation crews, engineering departments, billing departments, etc.
Merging the 2 districts into one larger district, with interchangeable crews should make things much more efficient, provide better coverage for customers, and reduce costs...(and it's been suggested many times)
yet BOTH fight the loss of independence tooth and nail...