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Should a teacher pay depend on her subject?

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piasabird

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
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It is not a matter of importance, it is a matter of how difficult the degree is to complete. Also we should look at supply and demand. There are like billion people with a language arts degree, so english teachers are a dime a dozen. i.e. supply and demand.

Being able to actually teach a subject and maintain discipline in the classroom is another topic.

Having seen some people's attitude about english and math it is like students need to be forced to take and pass these classes. I think people just convince themselves that they can not do it. Need some serious psychotherpy for this kind of thing.
 
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monovillage

Diamond Member
Jul 3, 2008
8,445
0
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whatever you have to tell yourself to get through the day
Ok, thanks Teach.

A 2 year certification, a 4 month internship and a background check would be more than enough for K-9 grades.
 
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Fern

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Sep 30, 2003
26,916
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Should a teacher pay depend on her subject?
I think so.

My question: Should teachers' pay rise every year if they keep doing the same thing, the same responsibilities etc? If so, why?

Other than COLA, I don't think it should.

Fern
 

xBiffx

Diamond Member
Aug 22, 2011
8,232
2
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I think so.

My question: Should teachers' pay rise every year if they keep doing the same thing, the same responsibilities etc? If so, why?

Other than COLA, I don't think it should.

Fern
There should still be some sort of performance metric. Perhaps this is based on standardized testing, who knows. But there needs to be a reward for doing the job better than the next guy.
 
Jun 19, 2004
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The arguments regarding "extensive training" are obviously absurd because a K-12 teacher requires far less training than the entry level at a university.
This is false. K-12 teachers require more training than teaching at a university. K-12 teachers are also required to take classes every year to stay current. I've attended half a dozen different universities and can tell you they'll let anyone teach.
 

DCal430

Diamond Member
Feb 12, 2011
6,021
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This is false. K-12 teachers require more training than teaching at a university. K-12 teachers are also required to take classes every year to stay current. I've attended half a dozen different universities and can tell you they'll let anyone teach.
What utter nonsense. People at a university require PH.D and CC all require Masters. K-12 only needs a bachelors degree, with some classes for a teaching credential.

The so called classes they must take each year is just a few classes over the summer, like 2 weeks of classes. I actually have family members who are teachers.
 

bfdd

Lifer
Feb 3, 2007
13,312
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I think this thread is pointing out many issues with centralized education. You can't pick what you think is best, yet force your experiment of the future on others because they're FORCED to go to your schools. You infringe on their liberty of choice for their future. I also believe this is what has led so many to be idiot artists or writers instead of seeking more profitable ventures for themselves and society. Need less centralized education and less state forced education and more school choice. Those who whine that the school choice would hurt us as a whole are simply to lazy to put forth the effort to educate the way they want in a system that demands competition.
 
Jun 19, 2004
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What utter nonsense. People at a university require PH.D and CC all require Masters. K-12 only needs a bachelors degree, with some classes for a teaching credential.

The so called classes they must take each year is just a few classes over the summer, like 2 weeks of classes. I actually have family members who are teachers.
First of all, at universities, those with PHD's rarely teach classes. Most classes are taught by graduate students. K-12 teachers need to be proficient (I'm not claiming they all are) in a wide range of subjects, teaching methods and, psychology. University teachers need to be slightly more proficient than their students in the one class they're teaching. After you've taken a few college classes, you'll see what I mean.
 

DCal430

Diamond Member
Feb 12, 2011
6,021
9
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First of all, at universities, those with PHD's rarely teach classes. Most classes are taught by graduate students. K-12 teachers need to be proficient (I'm not claiming they all are) in a wide range of subjects, teaching methods and, psychology. University teachers need to be slightly more proficient than their students in the one class they're teaching. After you've taken a few college classes, you'll see what I mean.

No K-12 teachers only need to be proficient in the subject they are teaching. Most classes are not taught by graduate students, most are taught by professors. T.A may lead discussion sessions or labs, but they do not teach the classes.
 

monovillage

Diamond Member
Jul 3, 2008
8,445
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First of all, at universities, those with PHD's rarely teach classes. Most classes are taught by graduate students. K-12 teachers need to be proficient (I'm not claiming they all are) in a wide range of subjects, teaching methods and, psychology. University teachers need to be slightly more proficient than their students in the one class they're teaching. After you've taken a few college classes, you'll see what I mean.
Of course, those crafty 8 year old students really need someone with an advanced degree along with yearly continuing education. It must be a struggle for most educators to stay on top of things.
 

mizzou

Diamond Member
Jan 2, 2008
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Nope. Well...shit. It's tough to argue a PE teacher getting paid same as a Physics teacher with same years of service.
 

CycloWizard

Lifer
Sep 10, 2001
12,353
1
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This is false. K-12 teachers require more training than teaching at a university. K-12 teachers are also required to take classes every year to stay current. I've attended half a dozen different universities and can tell you they'll let anyone teach.
Yes, most kindergarten teachers have PhD's and five years of post-doctoral experience before being hired at an entry-level salary. o_O
 

Zorkorist

Diamond Member
Apr 17, 2007
6,867
3
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Teacher's produce per grqade level.

As long as a teacher is useful, at a grade level,

of course he gets paid as much as another teacher.

-John
 

Zorkorist

Diamond Member
Apr 17, 2007
6,867
3
76
Nope. Well...shit. It's tough to argue a PE teacher getting paid same as a Physics teacher with same years of service.
Obesity is currently the 2nd biggist killer to smoking.

Phys ed teachers were/are doing something.

-John
 

CycloWizard

Lifer
Sep 10, 2001
12,353
1
81
First of all, at universities, those with PHD's rarely teach classes. Most classes are taught by graduate students. K-12 teachers need to be proficient (I'm not claiming they all are) in a wide range of subjects, teaching methods and, psychology. University teachers need to be slightly more proficient than their students in the one class they're teaching. After you've taken a few college classes, you'll see what I mean.
It depends on the university. I've never had a graduate student teach any of my courses even as a guest lecturer. University teachers have PhDs in the subjects they teach plus they generally have extensive research experience in the topic. They also generally have plenty of teaching workshops taught by people with PhDs in education. Indeed, many universities certify faculty teaching expertise under specific formats and using certain techniques. Calling this "slightly more proficient than their students" is simply ignorant and seems likely to be little more than a feeble attempt to disparage professors. My guess is there's a reason you attended six different universities and it's closely related to your thinking that professors are a dime a dozen.
 
Jun 19, 2004
24,142
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It depends on the university. I've never had a graduate student teach any of my courses even as a guest lecturer. University teachers have PhDs in the subjects they teach plus they generally have extensive research experience in the topic. They also generally have plenty of teaching workshops taught by people with PhDs in education. Indeed, many universities certify faculty teaching expertise under specific formats and using certain techniques. Calling this "slightly more proficient than their students" is simply ignorant and seems likely to be little more than a feeble attempt to disparage professors. My guess is there's a reason you attended six different universities and it's closely related to your thinking that professors are a dime a dozen.
Sorry, I didn't have the luxury of picking the 'right' parents or, the 'right' school and attended State universities which often use graduate students to teach classes. I did have some PHD's teaching classes but, they were in the minority because they were all doing research. I don't have to try to disparage many university profs, they do fine by themselves. Perhaps if you read the news you might know that. My attending half a dozen universities is a direct product of making a living while attending school. Why do I get the feeling you didn't have to work while you were in school?
 

JACKHAMMER

Platinum Member
Oct 9, 1999
2,870
0
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I think so.

My question: Should teachers' pay rise every year if they keep doing the same thing, the same responsibilities etc? If so, why?

Other than COLA, I don't think it should.

Fern
Ask yourself what competent person would ever take a job with no raise potential. Who would do that? You need to give these people some type of raises for experience otherwise keeping and retaining them would be impossible.

We need to be attracting bright, hard-working people to this field; not people stupid enough to not take a raise for their entire career.
 

CycloWizard

Lifer
Sep 10, 2001
12,353
1
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Sorry, I didn't have the luxury of picking the 'right' parents or, the 'right' school and attended State universities which often use graduate students to teach classes. I did have some PHD's teaching classes but, they were in the minority because they were all doing research. I don't have to try to disparage many university profs, they do fine by themselves. Perhaps if you read the news you might know that. My attending half a dozen universities is a direct product of making a living while attending school. Why do I get the feeling you didn't have to work while you were in school?
I worked from age 12 to save for school and am am still paying my student loans. I worked 20+ hours a week (doing research off campus) while an undergraduate and still graduated in four years with an engineering degree. I also have a PhD and teach at a state university where none of our classes are even taught by post-docs. My official workload is 60% research, 20% teaching, and 20% service. I teach a minimum of 3 courses per year. I am also responsible for mentoring students (both graduate and undergraduate) while trying to get real, novel research done. I'm also responsible for funding the lab and students by writing grant proposals because tuition pays for almost nothing at a state school. You get the feeling that I didn't have to work while I was in school because that makes you feel better than you would feel if you acknowledged that if you had worked a bit harder, you might have graduated on a reasonable time scale. In the end, you made your choices and you want to blame someone else (or, in this case, an entire class of people) for those decisions. In any case, the bottom line is that you know shit from Shinola about universities and their faculty despite spending lots of your time and money trying to achieve what they offered.
 

Hulk

Platinum Member
Oct 9, 1999
2,660
91
91
Like everybody else teachers should be paid based on what the market will bear. If there is a line around the block for teacher X who are looking for jobs but no teacher Y's, then obviously you have to pay more for teacher Y.

No one can decide what a job is worth. The market will decide that.
 

monovillage

Diamond Member
Jul 3, 2008
8,445
0
0
Obesity is currently the 2nd biggist killer to smoking.

Phys ed teachers were/are doing something.

-John
Yes, they're living large on the gravy train at taxpayer expense. Make that living large on the seasoned yogurt train at taxpayer expense.
 

DrPizza

Administrator Elite Member Goat Whisperer
Administrator
Mar 5, 2001
49,619
160
111
www.slatebrookfarm.com
What utter nonsense. People at a university require PH.D and CC all require Masters. K-12 only needs a bachelors degree, with some classes for a teaching credential.

The so called classes they must take each year is just a few classes over the summer, like 2 weeks of classes. I actually have family members who are teachers.
I've been to several universities where I had teachers who did not have a PhD. Further, you claimed that teachers are only required to have a bachelor's degree - that claim depends on the state. In NY, a master's degree is required. In fact, at my school, we advertised for a temp English teaching position. The requirements were that you were qualified to teach at a CC.
 

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