Shortage of over 100,000 tradespeople

[Jeff7]

Machinists get the stock. They have to make the shaft.



:whiste:

:sneaky:

 

[1sikbITCH]

To throw some "shit" into this thread, the "conspiracy" is now that companies are bitching to guberment (with media latching on) about a tradepersons shortage so they can import cheaper workers from the standard developing countires (e.g. China, India, Mexico, etc.)

In America those people are called lobbyists, it's done in plain site and there is no "conspiracy". The companies with the most effective lobbyists run the country. History 101.

Is this new up there?

 

[Wyndru]

My coworker recently left his IT job (sys admin @ $70k) for a HVAC job.

I wonder if he makes more now, or if he just hated IT.

 

[Wreckem]

Yup, in a sad turn of events... Banks now own more houses than US citizens.

I am fucking amazed that prices haven't fallen a lot further.

Some markets absolutely cratered. Some didn't at all.

The areas with the highest foreclosure rates did indeed fall an extraordinary amount. Places with not as high foreclosure rates haven't fallen as much.

But yeah banks are more or less sitting on foreclosed homes. All while new home builders continue to crank out more new homes. There is an oversupply of homes but the home market is all jacked up because of the banks and the bailouts.

Look at Las Vegas. They more or less had an oversupply of housing during the boom, prices still shot up dramatically. Many developments ended up getting built and never had people move in. Las Vegas continues to have one of the highest foreclosure rates but yet you still have new homes going up left and right. Even when there are blocks of new homes barely/never lived in. Then you have the Las Vegas Condo market. It was decimated between the bust and oversupply and now you have investment companies buying huge numbers of never lived in units, hoping condo prices eventually recover. Most of newer condos built in Las Vegas(2008 to present) are owned by investment firms, hoping to turn a $300-500million investment into a lot of profit if the condo market recovers. Investment firms buying Las Vegas condos at 60-70% off in hopes of flipping in a few years(and renting in the mean time, especially in the Condotel developments) is probably one of the safest gambles in Las Vegas.

 

[Imp]

In America those people are called lobbyists, it's done in plain site and there is no "conspiracy". The companies with the most effective lobbyists run the country. History 101.

Is this new up there?

Oh, I just used the word "conspiracy" so no one would get offended and call me a durty librl.

 

[stormkroe]

and you hit the nail on the head. there aren't any tradespeople in forces because its no a lucrative career. its quite miserable actually, especially when you barely make enough to pay bills.

You guys need to specify what areas you're talking about. There are areas in the world that are STARVING for good tradespeople, and the pay is outstanding. Look at highschool graduates in the oil and gas industry pulling in 100k per year.
Are there any places in the U.S. that are doing good right now?

 

[BoomerD]

You guys need to specify what areas you're talking about. There are areas in the world that are STARVING for good tradespeople, and the pay is outstanding. Look at highschool graduates in the oil and gas industry pulling in 100k per year.
Are there any places in the U.S. that are doing good right now?

Yep...North Dakota is starving for good tradespeople...it's easy to make over $100K there...but the down-side is that there's no place to live...

 

[K1052]

Most of newer condos built in Las Vegas(2008 to present) are owned by investment firms, hoping to turn a $300-500million investment into a lot of profit if the condo market recovers. Investment firms buying Las Vegas condos at 60-70% off in hopes of flipping in a few years(and renting in the mean time, especially in the Condotel developments) is probably one of the safest gambles in Las Vegas.

This is happening in many cities that where the condo market got clobbered. Large blocs of condos or even whole buildings in distress got bought and flipped to rentals or taken off market entirely. Some companies have waited until the inventory has dwindled (depending on the market) due to no more condo construction and are successfully starting to move these properties...which they bought at substantial discounts. Even if they have to sit on them as rentals for years the returns are typically far superior to anything else the market can provide at this point and they own a physical asset.

 

[ViviTheMage]

I'd love to be an architect, or a master electrician ... seems kind of fun.

 

[marvdmartian]

http://toronto.ctvnews.ca/video?playlistId=1.1206004 (video)

I knew there was a shortage of tradespeople but did not realize it was this high. Definitely something good to go to school for these days.

Well, except, most kids these days aren't into learning something that takes effort to learn, or gets their hands dirty. So much easier to go tens of thousands of dollars into debt "earning" a liberal arts degree, then go live in mom & dad's basement!! :awe:

 

[iGas]

My coworker recently left his IT job (sys admin @ $70k) for a HVAC job.

I wonder if he makes more now, or if he just hated IT.

I can assure you that he make at least the same or more in salary.

<-- 10 years ago was I a network security admin, and left to be a refrigeration/HVAC mech, and now my salary is well above my salary then (and currently my salary is above a senior network admin that work for IBM in my town as well as my brother in law who also work for IBM for 22 years as a senior software developer).

 

[wirednuts]

My coworker recently left his IT job (sys admin @ $70k) for a HVAC job.

I wonder if he makes more now, or if he just hated IT.

he isn't going to make 70k doing hvac work. if he does, he will be working 60 hours a week and be physically exhausted all the time...

 

[wirednuts]

You guys need to specify what areas you're talking about. There are areas in the world that are STARVING for good tradespeople, and the pay is outstanding. Look at highschool graduates in the oil and gas industry pulling in 100k per year.
Are there any places in the U.S. that are doing good right now?

its the trades. its boom and bust throughout history... its the nature of the beast. I came into the game at the end of a boom, and suffered through the biggest bust we ever seen.. then just got out. I used enough of my body up on that crap, and I only averaged about 30-40k a year...

 

[Imp]

You guys need to specify what areas you're talking about. There are areas in the world that are STARVING for good tradespeople, and the pay is outstanding. Look at highschool graduates in the oil and gas industry pulling in 100k per year.
Are there any places in the U.S. that are doing good right now?

In Canada, word is that jobs in the trades are very lucrative in the western provinces, Prairies (e.g. north British Columbia, Alberta, Saskatchewan, Manitoba). However, they are supposedly crap in Ontario (biggest, most populous province with 1/3 of country's population) and eastward (includes Quebec, another 1/4 plus of country's population).

Also, thanks to the U.S. oil/gas boom, Alberta is now pulling back in production. Oil sands heavy crude is sold at a discount, U.S. demand is dropping, export capacity is not growing strongly (no pipelines), and projects are being put on hold. Province went on a spending binge and now has to pull back. You also need Red Seal (or something) to work in Alberta, which supposedly isn't that easy to get if you're from outside the province.

Point is, that trades may be a lucrative career, but boom-bust, geographic, and economic factors still matter.

 

[Fritzo]

http://toronto.ctvnews.ca/video?playlistId=1.1206004 (video)

I knew there was a shortage of tradespeople but did not realize it was this high. Definitely something good to go to school for these days.

I got lucky and I have a really good job related to computers/technology but if I lost it, I'd be in trouble as there's not really much out there as far as IT and other technology related jobs. Trades is probably my fallback if I did lose my job. I'd probably try to specialize, and perhaps go as electrician, maybe plumbing too.

With my current job I have lot of time off, I've actually given it some thought on taking an electrical apprenticeship so I can get my hours and get my cert. I think I know enough that I'd be able to pretty much learn what I don't know on the job with the help of another electrician.

Of course it's easier said than done, it's nice to just sit back and home and not do much on my days off, when my current job pays well.

I'm in the same boat as you. I'm a hold-over from the dot.com bubble era and would never be able to find something that pays as well for my skill set. I like working with my hands, so something like a mechanic or electrical would probably be good.

I've considered going back to cooking too, but it's so difficult to make a stable living at restaurants that I'm not sure I'd want to.

 

[iGas]

In Canada, word is that jobs in the trades are very lucrative in the western provinces, Prairies (e.g. north British Columbia, Alberta, Saskatchewan, Manitoba). However, they are supposedly crap in Ontario (biggest, most populous province with 1/3 of country's population) and eastward (includes Quebec, another 1/4 plus of country's population).

Also, thanks to the U.S. oil/gas boom, Alberta is now pulling back in production. Oil sands heavy crude is sold at a discount, U.S. demand is dropping, export capacity is not growing strongly (no pipelines), and projects are being put on hold. Province went on a spending binge and now has to pull back. You also need Red Seal (or something) to work in Alberta, which supposedly isn't that easy to get if you're from outside the province.

Point is, that trades may be a lucrative career, but boom-bust, geographic, and economic factors still matter.

It is tough to get your first Red Seal, however it is easier to get additional Red Seals after that.

PS. Please provide links that the oil fields are pulling back.

FYI, AB is looking at adding an additional 7000 bodies just in the pipe trades starting this spring.

 

[stormkroe]

It is tough to get your first Red Seal, however it is easier to get additional Red Seals after that.

PS. Please provide links that the oil fields are pulling back.

FYI, AB is looking at adding an additional 7000 bodies just in the pipe trades starting this spring.

Trades don't have multiple red seals. They're acquired through testing and there's only 1 per trade. The red seal is only required in Alberta if your trade 'ticket' was obtained in another province. If you're a journeyman in Alberta, you only need a red seal (otherwise known as the 'interprovincial ticket) to work in provinces outside of Alberta.
As far as how hard it is to get, in Alberta you take the red seal test the day after you take the journeyman test. To me and the others of my class, the journeyman test was harder than the red seal.

And to Wirednuts, a dumb-as-a-hammer first year in all construction trades here makes $30k+ right out of high school, HVAC is one of the exceptionally high paying trades putting noobs closer to $40k. Man I'm sorry that work is sucking so bad in so many places. I hate seeing guys who know their stuff getting screwed

 

[xSauronx]

therein lies the problem.

that is some of it

i dont mind working with my hands, but...im not good at it. if i were an electrician id get myself killed. im sort of a spazz. with a computer i can backup > change > fucked up? restore....not fucked up? yay.

 

[iGas]

Trades don't have multiple red seals. They're acquired through testing and there's only 1 per trade. The red seal is only required in Alberta if your trade 'ticket' was obtained in another province. If you're a journeyman in Alberta, you only need a red seal (otherwise known as the 'interprovincial ticket) to work in provinces outside of Alberta.
As far as how hard it is to get, in Alberta you take the red seal test the day after you take the journeyman test. To me and the others of my class, the journeyman test was harder than the red seal.

And to Wirednuts, a dumb-as-a-hammer first year in all construction trades here makes $30k+ right out of high school, HVAC is one of the exceptionally high paying trades putting noobs closer to $40k. Man I'm sorry that work is sucking so bad in so many places. I hate seeing guys who know their stuff getting screwed

I have multiple Red Seals, and I found that the Journeyman, and Red Seals exams was a cake walk compare to universities exams that I took for Industrial Design and Computer Science degrees. Infact the trades exams were easier than the CCNA, and MCSE exams that I took over 14 years ago.

What hard to acquire is the apprenticeship, and once that is completed with a few years of experience under your belt you can write other exams, as long as you are working in that field and is sponsor by your company.

http://www.itabc.ca/sites/default/files/program-information/plumber/plumber-program-profile.pdf

At 6420 hours a Plumber can write the Red Seals exams for Plumbing and Gas B Certs, and 2810 hours requirement to challenge each related field.

Program Challenge Requirements:
&#61607;
9,630 documented hours of directly related
work experience required to challenge Inter-
Provincial Red Seal examination.
&#61607;
2,810 documented hours of directly related work
experience for holders of
a BC Certificate of
Qualification (Inter-Provincial Red Seal Endor
sement) in Steamfitter/Pipefitter and Sprinkler
System Installer will be required to challenge
the Inter-Provincial Red Seal Examination.

http://www.itabc.ca/sites/default/f...geration-and-ac-mechanic-profile-feb-2013.pdf

INDUSTRY TRAINING PROGRAM PROFILE
ACCREDITED PROGRAM
Refrigeration and Air Conditioning Mechanic (Ref
rigeration Mechanic) (BC0103 &#8211; RS18) Page 5 of 7
Refridgeration and Air Conditioning Mechanic Profile February 2013
Challenge Pathway
This graphic provides an overview of the Refrig
eration and Air Conditioni
ng Mechanic (Refrigeration
Mechanic) challenge pathway.
Challenge Program Standards
Credentials Awarded
Refrigeration and Air Conditioning Mechanic
(Refrigeration Mechanic) &#8211; Certificate
of Qualification with Red Seal endorsement
ITA Registration Prerequisites
An approved Challenge Application, which includes:
&#61607;
10,830 documented hours of directly
related experience working in the
occupation

 

[KentState]

I'm not surprised after trying to find a decent plumber and electrician to do simple stuff.

 

[CraigRT]

Trades are where it's at.
I almost took a job as a Robotic tech before I went into Disaster restoration business.
The pay is great and OT is next to endless. Robotic tech is my backup job for sure.

 

[Imp]

It is tough to get your first Red Seal, however it is easier to get additional Red Seals after that.

PS. Please provide links that the oil fields are pulling back.

FYI, AB is looking at adding an additional 7000 bodies just in the pipe trades starting this spring.

Okay, "pulling back" was the wrong phrase.

More accurate may be "not booming like there's no end in sight anymore". If true, wouldn't be the first time it's happened, just part of the cycle. Also, I'm not trying to push a point, so if you do know otherwise, let me know. This is just what I've heard.

From June, 2012:
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/repo...ut-oil-sands-projects-at-risk/article4230759/

February, 2013:
http://www2.macleans.ca/2013/02/05/oil-sands-bust/

February, 2013:
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/repo...new-fiscal-challenge/article8415713/?page=all

February, 2013:
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/glob...de-of-canadas-weak-oil-prices/article8123055/

January, 2013:
http://business.financialpost.com/2...as-budget-as-price-gap-soars/?__lsa=cb22-50a7

Those 3 from 2013 are somewhat rehashed stories, but 3 difference sources. Two of those are the more right-leaning papers.

Also, my oil sands stocks are sucking.

 

[iGas]

Okay, "pulling back" was the wrong phrase.

More accurate may be "not booming like there's no end in sight anymore". If true, wouldn't be the first time it's happened, just part of the cycle. Also, I'm not trying to push a point, so if you do know otherwise, let me know. This is just what I've heard.

From June, 2012:
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/repo...ut-oil-sands-projects-at-risk/article4230759/

February, 2013:
http://www2.macleans.ca/2013/02/05/oil-sands-bust/

February, 2013:
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/repo...new-fiscal-challenge/article8415713/?page=all

February, 2013:
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/glob...de-of-canadas-weak-oil-prices/article8123055/

January, 2013:
http://business.financialpost.com/2...as-budget-as-price-gap-soars/?__lsa=cb22-50a7

Those 3 from 2013 are somewhat rehashed stories, but 3 difference sources. Two of those are the more right-leaning papers.

Also, my oil sands stocks are sucking.

Same here, my oil and coal stocks are not doing well. But, according the inside sources that run the mechanical trades union in Edmonton...they are looking to add 7000 good journeymen starting spring to summer for the year of 2013.

 

[Engineer]

Who needs trade...just jump on the disability bandwagon!

http://www.npr.org/2013/03/22/17507...sability-and-the-number-is-growing?ft=1&f=100

With that said, yes, there is a shortage of skilled tradesmen in this country and once the current generation starts retiring/dieing/etc., it will get worse as it's not taught nearly as much as it used to be.

 

[Imp]

Same here, my oil and coal stocks are not doing well. But, according the inside sources that run the mechanical trades union in Edmonton...they are looking add 7000 good journeymen starting spring to summer for the year of 2013.

I can believe that.

After rereading those articles, it sounds like Alberta's at their export capacity. Once a pipeline or two gets approved, they'll start doing better and get more people. There's also probably a bunch of positions that should have been filled months/years ago that never were, which should be obvious from the "exorbitant" pay out there.