Hey, I'm not the one holding the constitution as written, as law of the land. You have a problem with Jefferson, and his document you have recourse in the court. We can certainly amend it. right?
Hey, I'm not the one holding the constitution as written, as law of the land. You have a problem with Jefferson, and his document you have recourse in the court. We can certainly amend it. right?
sao123
Lifer
- May 27, 2002
- 12,653
- 205
- 106
Originally posted by: SlitheryDee
Well in the area that I live in there's a small freely distributed paper called "The Conservative" that enjoys a wide readership and supports itself through local advertising.
As the paper itself states, its about "News and politics from a Christian perspective". Its basically like taking the opinions section of a regular newspaper and specifying a religious slant with recurring authors.
Although I tend to disagree with most of the content, I read every new edition of "The Conservative" without fail as it always inspires awe, shock, anger, or at least amusement.
There's one fellow by the name of James Dobson (he's on wikipedia) who always seems to rate a front page spot. His articles are always the best as you get a sense over time of some sort of imaginary battle he's waging with "The Evil Humanists" and how he seems to think that they're everywhere, influencing everything. The Humanists are apparently making solid progress in their aims to make abortion manditory, homosexuality a part of the mainstream, and allowing terrorists to destroy the country (etc.).
So I get my jollies reading this paper every month all the while thinking that no one REALLY believes that things are that bad.
One day I was talking to my grandfather, who also reads "The Conservative", and I jokingly mentioned that "James Dobson seems to think the world is going to hell in a handbasket" (lol). To which he replied "Well it is." ()
To me the world as a whole seems like a better place to live than it was in the past. The average lifespan of a person is rising steadily, all wars and conflicts are under close scrutiny by not only the governments involved, but by the populations of those governments (see war in Iraq), and the world seems to be very healthy as far as general morality (excluding U.S. intervention it's really more of the same in the Mid East right?).
Well is it or isn't it?
Cliffs:
I jokingly tell grandpa that someone in a newspaper thinks that the world is going to hell in a handbasket.
He agrees
Is it really?
Morality is at an all time low...
The number of Poor, Homeless, & Starving people is rising (even in 1st class nations) While the rich get richer and greedier.
Divorce rates, Pornography, Unmarried sex, STD's, Homosexuality, teen pregnancy & abortion are at an all time high
Drug use, Murder, Theft, Rape, & Suicide rates are all up.
New technologies have given aid to the common criminal to commit new crimes never before imagined before such as identity theft.
Despite advances in modern medicine, we are just as close to a worldwide plague than at any other time ever.
People desire privacy more than justice, greed more than fairness, pride over respect/humility, & earthly knowledge over spirituality. Religion is considered by many a poison, the root of all evil, rather than the root of all good.
Jeff7
Lifer
- Jan 4, 2001
- 41,596
- 20
- 81
Humanity seems to always have a way of screwing up a good thing. Ghandi comes to mind - a guy who wants peace, and proposes nonviolent resistance as a means of problem resolution, instead of using violence. Result? Some people hate him, and one person kills him.
Concerning religion in government - it always seems to be a bad idea. Hear a voice in your head telling you to kill people and burn things, and just say, "GOD told me to do these things!" Well then, if you've got the almighty telling you to do things, I guess you're in the right. Go ahead on and do what you want, messenger of god.
"I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do to their fellows, because I notice it always coincides with their own desires." - Susan B. Anthony
What we'll probably do is what's unraveled civilizations in the past - resource depletion. Civilizations grow too quickly, and use up the seemingly plentiful resources. Then by the time they realize that those resources aren't going to replenish themselves indefinitely, they're already at the "oh snap!" stage, and it's too late. There were probably Mayans that warned of overfarming the land and depleting resources, but no one listened. Then when the land was no longer arable, the civilization crumbles, and as people are leaving the area in search of livable land, they're all muttering, "Why didn't anyone warn us about this?"
Unmarried sex - OMG, NOES!!!! Irresponsible sex is the problem. There was a time before marriage existed, and people still had sex then.
STDs - not a result of sex. They are transmitted by sex. You can get STDs through married sex. Sex isn't the problem, it's just a means of transmission. STDs don't make sex evil any more than colds make breathing evil.
Homosexuality - it's also been around awhile. It even exists in nature.
Teen pregnancy - hell, there was a time when that was probably the only way to do it. Many hundreds or thousands of years ago, women would often die in childbirth, and probably wouldn't live to be 30 years old, or maybe not even 20. The sooner the better.
"New technologies have given aid to the common criminal to commit new crimes never before imagined before such as identity theft."
Just as before.
"Yo, check this awesomeness out. It's a pointy rock, and I tied it to this stick. I can kill someone that's more than arm's length away from me, and all he's got is a handheld rock!"
"Oooooo"
Or maybe, "Woah, if I tied this string around this springy wood, I can shoot sharp sticks at people. I can kill people really far away! I'm totally the man!!!!"
Then came bronze weapons, then iron. Eventually we got to gunpowder. Each generation brings wonderful new ways in which we can kill one another.
We evolved from a brutal natural environment, and that brutal nature is still imprinted within us. Too many of us let it take over, and some even embrace it and wish it to be protected, and allowed to be manifested. In that way, part of humanity actively works against its own progress.
Concerning religion in government - it always seems to be a bad idea. Hear a voice in your head telling you to kill people and burn things, and just say, "GOD told me to do these things!" Well then, if you've got the almighty telling you to do things, I guess you're in the right. Go ahead on and do what you want, messenger of god.
"I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do to their fellows, because I notice it always coincides with their own desires." - Susan B. Anthony
Aww, but I thought we were invincible!
What we'll probably do is what's unraveled civilizations in the past - resource depletion. Civilizations grow too quickly, and use up the seemingly plentiful resources. Then by the time they realize that those resources aren't going to replenish themselves indefinitely, they're already at the "oh snap!" stage, and it's too late. There were probably Mayans that warned of overfarming the land and depleting resources, but no one listened. Then when the land was no longer arable, the civilization crumbles, and as people are leaving the area in search of livable land, they're all muttering, "Why didn't anyone warn us about this?"
Again, just like in the past. First off, a few things: pornography has been around for a LONG time. A very long time. I remember reading about some cave drawings which are believed to have been done by juveniles, as they were crudely drawn, and had rather enlarged genitals - sounds like something modern humans find humor in.
Unmarried sex - OMG, NOES!!!! Irresponsible sex is the problem. There was a time before marriage existed, and people still had sex then.
STDs - not a result of sex. They are transmitted by sex. You can get STDs through married sex. Sex isn't the problem, it's just a means of transmission. STDs don't make sex evil any more than colds make breathing evil.
Homosexuality - it's also been around awhile. It even exists in nature.
Teen pregnancy - hell, there was a time when that was probably the only way to do it. Many hundreds or thousands of years ago, women would often die in childbirth, and probably wouldn't live to be 30 years old, or maybe not even 20. The sooner the better.
"New technologies have given aid to the common criminal to commit new crimes never before imagined before such as identity theft."
Just as before.
"Yo, check this awesomeness out. It's a pointy rock, and I tied it to this stick. I can kill someone that's more than arm's length away from me, and all he's got is a handheld rock!"
"Oooooo"
Or maybe, "Woah, if I tied this string around this springy wood, I can shoot sharp sticks at people. I can kill people really far away! I'm totally the man!!!!"
Then came bronze weapons, then iron. Eventually we got to gunpowder. Each generation brings wonderful new ways in which we can kill one another.
We evolved from a brutal natural environment, and that brutal nature is still imprinted within us. Too many of us let it take over, and some even embrace it and wish it to be protected, and allowed to be manifested. In that way, part of humanity actively works against its own progress.
K1052
Elite Member
- Aug 21, 2003
- 52,804
- 46,632
- 136
Originally posted by: Jeff7
Humanity seems to always have a way of screwing up a good thing. Ghandi comes to mind - a guy who wants peace, and proposes nonviolent resistance as a means of problem resolution, instead of using violence. Result? Some people hate him, and one person kills him.
Concerning religion in government - it always seems to be a bad idea. Hear a voice in your head telling you to kill people and burn things, and just say, "GOD told me to do these things!" Well then, if you've got the almighty telling you to do things, I guess you're in the right. Go ahead on and do what you want, messenger of god.
"I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do to their fellows, because I notice it always coincides with their own desires." - Susan B. Anthony
Aww, but I thought we were invincible!
What we'll probably do is what's unraveled civilizations in the past - resource depletion. Civilizations grow too quickly, and use up the seemingly plentiful resources. Then by the time they realize that those resources aren't going to replenish themselves indefinitely, they're already at the "oh snap!" stage, and it's too late. There were probably Mayans that warned of overfarming the land and depleting resources, but no one listened. Then when the land was no longer arable, the civilization crumbles, and as people are leaving the area in search of livable land, they're all muttering, "Why didn't anyone warn us about this?"
In the past that was, at least in part, true. Luckily the US is rather adept at using up the resources of others too and manipulating global trade to our benefit.
Jeff7
Lifer
- Jan 4, 2001
- 41,596
- 20
- 81
Then there may come a time when other nations decide that they're better off keeping their own resources, because of that old thing I see pop up sometimes:
"Only when the last tree has died. and the last river been poisoned ... will we realise we cannot eat money."
Nations may benefit now from trade, but if it turns out that the resources are in fact more valuable than the money they bring in, trade will stop, and the US will likely get pissed off. Then we can either whine and throw a tantrum like a 2 year old and go to war to get our precious luxury goods, or we can adapt, and limit our own resource consumption to a sustainable level. I dreadingly have great faith that we will choose the 2 year-old tantrum tactic.
Global trade can help everyone. It can also raise the stakes. Instead of depleting resources of one region, now an entire planet's resources must be managed to avoid widespread conflict in the long run.
K1052
Elite Member
- Aug 21, 2003
- 52,804
- 46,632
- 136
Not quite, all that will happen is that the US would tap other resources just at a slightly higher expense. As far as natural resources go the US is sitting rather pretty actually. The only reason to go abroad for a lot of stuff is that it is cheaper in developing countries where the real easy to get to stuff hasn't been expended yet.
TehMac
Diamond Member
- Aug 18, 2006
- 9,976
- 3
- 71
You realize that gang warfare has stopped quite a bit since the 1930's right? Hell, Al Capone was running wild with Thompsons (the 30's version of AK-47s) and the gunfights I think of are the ones happening in LA because the populace can't defend themselves.
to judge humanity with the same barometer of perfection on our bad days that we use for our good days is being in denial.
CKent
Diamond Member
- Aug 17, 2005
- 9,020
- 0
- 0
The world keeps slowly improving. Anyone can see only the worst and cry doom. But compare our lives to how they were just a few centuries ago. Would you like to go back to a time where you could be burned at the stake for being a witch, and exonerated from the accusation only by dying? To a time where everything man didn't understand was explained by god? To a time when telling someone you didn't believe in the Judao-Christian god was akin to slapping him across the face? No, the world isn't going to hell, quite the opposite.
Tell a random person from central Louisiana that you don't believe in the Judao-Christian god and see if they don't react as if you slapped them across the face. I've done it a couple of times and most people quite simply don't know how to react to it.
That's beside the point really, but religion is definitely alive and strong in these parts.
The real point is that even the most devout christians in my experience no longer see the point of needless killing. They no longer believe in witches and are quite skeptical of ANY claims of supernatural or occult occurrences. They still explain everything man doesn't understand with God, but man understands so much more now that it definitely changes how the religious folk live as much as it does everyone else.
Morality. Real, sensible, logical morality seems to be in evidence everywhere where it wasn't so much before. Even among the religious majority this is true.
To answer your question, I'd much rather be living in the world as it is today than in the past. I think the future will be much better than things are now.
I just hope I'm able to remember that when I'm an old fogey and the world seems to be spinning out of control to me just like it does to my Grandfather now.
HardcoreRobot
Lifer
- Nov 7, 2000
- 16,403
- 3
- 81
Man, that is so true. For years I went on and on about the wonders of needless killing, telling everyone I met about it. But now even a devout Christian like myself no longer sees the point...
:roll:
Gee golly mister, all these words are making my brain hurt! Woo howdy!
Marinski
Golden Member
I really don't think things are that much worse now then they were in the past. The only difference is now you have the internet, news, media. So everybody knows everybody's business.
GuitarDaddy
Lifer
- Nov 9, 2004
- 11,465
- 1
- 0
It's easy to see how from an elders perspective the world has gone to hell. My dad believes that to an extent, he is 81 and when he was a boy the air and water were cleaner, the population was 20x less than now and news was very local and limited. To have lived through that emense population/communication explotion and come to the point we've reached today where we are constantly bombarded on TV everyday with the atrosities of the world, and impacts of global warming and pollution. It's a logical conclusion
Malak
Lifer
- Dec 4, 2004
- 14,696
- 2
- 0
I guess there should be a distinct seperation on what a devout christian and what a devout churchman is. There are many devout and even borderline fanatical religious people out there that, while claiming to be Christian, are clearly not by what we understand of the Bible. I would use the gargoyle lady as an example
Originally posted by: Trevelyan
Man, that is so true. For years I went on and on about the wonders of needless killing, telling everyone I met about it. But now even a devout Christian like myself no longer sees the point...
:roll:
WTH are you talking about?
My whole point was that contemporary Christians don't do that anymore. I congratulate you on the great leaps in practical morality that your faith has accomplished since the dark ages.
Apparently some very nasty stuff went on in a little town called Salem a little over 300 years ago. I'm surprised you've been alive that long, but I'm always glad when someone sees reason no matter how long it takes them. :thumbsup:
Yes the "God of the Gaps" is very much alive and well.
Well what Christianity promoted and what people who claimed to be Christians did are different things. I never claimed that killing was part of the Christian doctrine, just that a lot of Christians participated in it.
Still, isn't it Exodus 22:18 or, "Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live", that acted as the prime motivation and justification behind the many witch trials that have occurred in history?
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