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Shooting in Denmark during debate on Islam

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Nebor said:
I've done my time with a gun fighting islamists. Hopefully I'll get another chance. It's the only thing they understand.
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Yes, the last 25 years of the US sticking itself into the mideast hornet's nest has worked out well.

We should keep doing it. It can only help.
 
Nebor said:
You're calling him a coward when you wouldn't even stand near someone who was brave enough to speak out against a barbaric religion. That sort of cowardice is what allows people to be silenced by fear.

I've done my time with a gun fighting islamists. Hopefully I'll get another chance. It's the only thing they understand.
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I'm not arguing against fighting islamists with a gun. He is welcome to fight them, and he seems to want to, so why not? Is he more effective as a huge target with people around him dying left and right, and his inevitable demise at the hands of a terrorist attack creeping ever closer?


Edit: Who am I kidding, they probably know he will die and the powers that be will use it as huge media event... I would bet that people already have plans for protests when he is killed. He is probably being set up to die, as a "martyr" in the western sense.
 
nickqt said:
Yes, the last 25 years of the US sticking itself into the mideast hornet's nest has worked out well.

We should keep doing it. It can only help.
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No, we should bury our heads in the sand again. And also make sure that we don't offend them in any way. That is, we should make our own ISIS caliphate. Everything else is punishable by death.
 
postmortemIA said:
No, we should bury our heads in the sand again. And also make sure that we don't offend them in any way. That is, we should make our own ISIS caliphate. Everything else is punishable by death.
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How much mideast terrorism did the US suffer from before 1980?

Also, just a heads up, but we did make the ISIS caliphate.
 
nickqt said:
How much mideast terrorism did the US suffer from before 1980?

Also, just a heads up, but we did make the ISIS caliphate.
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It is not 1980 anymore. How many acts of terrorism did we get in the internet age? How many wars were worldwide in last 25 yrs with at least one side being Islamists?
Sure, USA was involved in almost every war in last 25 yrs too, but you have to understand for ISIS our mere existence is insult to them.
 
Black Octagon said:
Not your existence. Just your existence in proximity to the holy cities, and your shameless support for Israel in the region
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They are extremists even by most other Muslim's standards. If they want to play the "dig up old grievances" game then Europe could say the same about the Ottomans continually trying to invade them. They even beheaded Japanese. Tell me with a straight face Japan is near the holy cities and shamelessly supports Israel. Don't even try to claim that Japan's more recent donations amount to the same thing. Stop being a Daesh apologist.
 
postmortemIA said:
It is not 1980 anymore. How many acts of terrorism did we get in the internet age? How many wars were worldwide in last 25 yrs with at least one side being Islamists?
Sure, USA was involved in almost every war in last 25 yrs too, but you have to understand for ISIS our mere existence is insult to them.
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It's not 1980 anymore, because since then we've had our big ol' foot trampling all over the mideast. Or if not our feet, one of our friendly dicatator's feet. And our weapons. And our money.

Playing Empire will always open you up to terrorism, because terrorism is the only logical way that some poor and powerless schlub has to smack you right in your face. I mean, if Yemen had nuclear weapons and drones they might have some carriers sitting off of DC with drones patrolling VA and NY, but they don't have that. So their next best option is terrorism.

If you believe that we should keep dumping bombs and bullets and money all over the mideast, then that's fine. I'm not sure what you think it is going to accomplish since ever since we've started the situation has only gotten more convoluted and worse than before, but hey, Empires gotta' Empire I guess.

But let's not fool ourselves that if we just dump some more bombs, bullets, money and blood over there, that it's going to get better.

Let them murder each other. We have enough intelligence that we don't need a US footprint over there. We're hollowing out our country to play Empire, which is why Empires implode.
 
nickqt said:
It's not 1980 anymore, because since then we've had our big ol' foot trampling all over the mideast. Or if not our feet, one of our friendly dicatator's feet. And our weapons. And our money.

Playing Empire will always open you up to terrorism, because terrorism is the only logical way that some poor and powerless schlub has to smack you right in your face. I mean, if Yemen had nuclear weapons and drones they might have some carriers sitting off of DC with drones patrolling VA and NY, but they don't have that. So their next best option is terrorism.

If you believe that we should keep dumping bombs and bullets and money all over the mideast, then that's fine. I'm not sure what you think it is going to accomplish since ever since we've started the situation has only gotten more convoluted and worse than before, but hey, Empires gotta' Empire I guess.

But let's not fool ourselves that if we just dump some more bombs, bullets, money and blood over there, that it's going to get better.

Let them murder each other. We have enough intelligence that we don't need a US footprint over there. We're hollowing out our country to play Empire, which is why Empires implode.
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Obama administration has tried that make amends approach, and things got even more out of control. Surely, he inherited shitty situation that was promising to go downhill for certain. But here we are today, what are the choices? Every city in Europe is potential target. And in USA we have reports of adults making donations to ISIS.
 
Black Octagon said:
Not your existence. Just your existence in proximity to the holy cities, and your shameless support for Israel in the region
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lol Ah, Europe. Always ready to help kill the Jews.

I suppose, just to be fair, that we should declare Detroit our holiest city and start dropping bombs all across the Muslim world just because there are Muslims in Dearborn.
 
postmortemIA said:
Obama administration has tried that make amends approach, and things got even more out of control. Surely, he inherited shitty situation that was promising to go downhill for certain. But here we are today, what are the choices? Every city in Europe is potential target. And in USA we have reports of adults making donations to ISIS.
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Let's not pretend that everything was hunky dory until Obama made his "WorldApologyTour™".

ISIS is simply a bunch of Sunnis with weapons and cash running rampant over a failed state. A failed state that an unnamed previous US President helped create.

The only difference between Saddam and any of our pocket dictators in the mideast was that he got uppity back in '90 and didn't get our expressed permission to wage war. Sure, we we're OK when Saddam went to war against Iran in the 80s, and we were fine selling them chemical weapons to use against Iran and their own citizens, but they got uppity.

What are the choices?

We can stop sticking our collective dick into the hornet nest. If Europe and Israel are really really upset, let them handle it. It's their part of the world, not ours.

We can provide weapons to our "friends", and let them fight ISIS. And then we can stop screwing around over there.

Or, we can keep screwing around over there, dumping our treasury and blood, because it's been working out great since we've started, and will probably go even better the more treasure and blood we devote to it.

I mean, it worked well for the Crusaders, the French and British, the Portuguese, and everyone else who has spent money and lives over there.
 
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blastingcap said:
They are extremists even by most other Muslim's standards. If they want to play the "dig up old grievances" game then Europe could say the same about the Ottomans continually trying to invade them. They even beheaded Japanese. Tell me with a straight face Japan is near the holy cities and shamelessly supports Israel. Don't even try to claim that Japan's more recent donations amount to the same thing
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I agree with all of that, but my post was about Americans, not the Japanese. Don't deflect from the issue. There are specific reasons why these extremists specifically hate Americans. Glossing over this with remarks like "our very existence is an insult to them" will never help move things forward.
 
werepossum said:
I suppose, just to be fair, that we should declare Detroit our holiest city and start dropping bombs all across the Muslim world just because there are Muslims in Dearborn.
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No, because that would be to stoop to their level. It would also be ridiculous. Are you here to be ridiculous, or have a proper discussion about what is a very serious issue?
 
Black Octagon said:
I agree with all of that, but my post was about Americans, not the Japanese. Don't deflect from the issue. There are specific reasons why these extremists specifically hate Americans. Glossing over this with remarks like "our very existence is an insult to them" will never help move things forward.
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Maybe, but the Israel conflict has often been used to channel national unrest in the Arabic states towards a common enemy. Now we see that Muslims kills Muslims in terror bombings in Iraq, ISIS, Taliban, harsh dictatorships torturing/killing their own population etc. And maybe they start to realize that the real problems lies in their own countries, and that you cannot blame everything on US/Israel/Europe.
 
Muslim infighting - Sunni vs. Shia, etc. - is hardly new and well predates the U.S. interference in the Middle East, though. And no-one said the Americans or anyone else was SOLELY responsible for this mess
 
Black Octagon said:
Muslim infighting - Sunni vs. Shia, etc. - is hardly new and well predates the U.S. interference in the Middle East, though. And no-one said the Americans or anyone else was SOLELY responsible for this mess
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Totally agree.

But with the very tightly controlled information flow before the Internet and some of the more open Arabic TV stations, it was very easy to making your population believe that it was the case. Hopefully (and unfortunately it's far from the reality today) better information will help people to realize that they need to solve their own problems instead of blaming everyone else.

I know that Europe and US have had a great influence on what is going in the Middle East, but you can't undo what you've already done. We should help building a better Middle East, but as we have seen, you can't shove democracy down peoples throat and expect everything to be fine. And the Muslim fractions/clans/groups needs to find a way of peaceful co-existence. I hope that the people of the Middle East at some point realize that "an Eye for an Eye" is not going to solve their problems. Unfortunately it doesn't seem to happening any time soon.
 
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Subyman said:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...gen-shooting-during-debate-on-Islam-live.html

• Shooting at a cafe in central Copenhagen
• Three policemen reported injured
• French ambassador to Denmark inside but unharmed
• Meeting about freedom of speech was being held at the time
• Gathering organised by controversial Swedish artist Lars Vilks
• Lars Vilks caricatured Prophet Muhammad in 2007

Debate seems to have been restarted after the wounded were taken away. Suspected shooter was killed. 3 police officers shot in the confrontation.

I guess to debate on islam you got to pack some heat?
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Concealed carry is the answer. Arm all citizens and then the terrorists can be taken out.
 
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