Shoddy installation/design on Charger rental

[zoiks]

I've noticed this in other Chrysler cars as well. I'm usually really upbeat on news about how the quality of American cars have been improving the last several years but this kind of blows when you see something like this.
I rented a 2012 Charger (It did have 12k miles on it though) for a trip up northern California and I noticed that even though the car was great in fuel economy, it still had the same quality from 10 years ago. Around that time I had rented a new Chrysler Pacifica and had noticed the same thing; panels were not fitted properly or had a tendency to get loose due to poor design.








The car drove well in a way. It was comfy and a bit more modern than previous Dodge's that I've driven. But the suspension on that car does not match its image. The car is mean looking from the front and I'd think that it would have a firmer ride. Instead it handles like a boat with a soft cushy ride that I'd expect from a Crown Victoria.
I for one wouldn't buy it due to my expectations. I do however understand that there are plenty of people who want a 4 door car with a mean stance and a comfy ride out there and this would suit them fine.

 

[Jumpem]

That's what you get with UAW labor.

 

[manimal]

Maybe its been wrecked or abused.

People kick that part of the door when they have snow on their feet in an effort to keep snow out of the car.


Cheap to begin with then abused

 

[Throckmorton]

If it bothers you that much, buy some epoxy and glue it in place.

These cars are a bargain compared to what you got a decade ago for twice the price (a Mercedes), so I think we can accept some loose trim pieces. The guys in 70s detective shows got by fine with soft suspension... It's a myth that fun and good handling require stiffness. I guess the myth probably came about due to cars (like BMWs) having struts that can't properly handle wheel geometry as the suspension cycles.

If you think you can find a RWD car for the same price from Japan, go ahead and buy it.

 

[Sluggo]

Obviously assembled after the drinking and pot smoking "lunch" break.

 

[zoiks]

If it bothers you that much, buy some epoxy and glue it in place.

These cars are a bargain compared to what you got a decade ago for twice the price (a Mercedes), so I think we can accept some loose trim pieces. The guys in 70s detective shows got by fine with soft suspension... It's a myth that fun and good handling require stiffness. I guess the myth probably came about due to cars (like BMWs) having struts that can't properly handle wheel geometry as the suspension cycles.

If you think you can find a RWD car for the same price from Japan, go ahead and buy it.

Don't get me wrong. You get a lot of car for what you pay. There is an amazing amount of room in the vehicle. It looks like it's reliable engine wise and like I said, it had great fuel economy. I'm just surprised that Chrysler after looking at other manufacturers hasn't got its shit together yet. I do go through a good number of rentals every year and I get a feeling of how the cars are getting better each year. I can tell you that Ford has improved a lot. But I wish Chrysler had done the same. They've improved in other areas as I've pointed out but quality still seems shoddy.
The softer suspension is not a myth. You do enjoy driving more when the car pulls you back as a driver back going around sharp turns. Not so much in this car.

 

[PhoKingGuy]

It's a myth that fun and good handling require stiffness. I guess the myth probably came about due to cars (like BMWs) having struts that can't properly handle wheel geometry as the suspension cycles.

If you think you can find a RWD car for the same price from Japan, go ahead and buy it.

I love it when people say shit like this. It's like you're somehow smarter and know infinitely more about car suspension design than the engineering design team of one of the worlds best car makers.

 

[JulesMaximus]

I love it when the Chrysler apologists come out and excuse a rental car with 12,000 miles on it for falling apart. No car should be falling apart at 12,000 miles.

I had similar complaints about the 300C I rented in Maui many years ago. Felt like a boat, handled like a huge boat, seemed screwed together fairly well though from what I can remember.

 

[Insomniator]

My friends rented a magnum in San Fran a few years ago and said it was a total piece of crap. Lots of stalling....

 

[LTC8K6]

Both of those look like damage from drivers, particularly the second one.

 

[LTC8K6]

My friends rented a magnum in San Fran a few years ago and said it was a total piece of crap. Lots of stalling....

A few years ago, sure.

 

[exdeath]

If it bothers you that much, buy some epoxy and glue it in place.

These cars are a bargain compared to what you got a decade ago for twice the price (a Mercedes), so I think we can accept some loose trim pieces. The guys in 70s detective shows got by fine with soft suspension... It's a myth that fun and good handling require stiffness. I guess the myth probably came about due to cars (like BMWs) having struts that can't properly handle wheel geometry as the suspension cycles.

If you think you can find a RWD car for the same price from Japan, go ahead and buy it.

Shhhh.... don't let the Evo or STi know that struts can't handle properly!!!

 

[Howard]

Shhhh.... don't let the Evo or STi know that struts can't handle properly!!!

Or the M3, or the 911...

 

[WackyDan]

I have a Subaru Forrester rental this week... Not impressed at all.. Interior feels pretty cheap and a lot more thought could have been given to the design of the interior space.

It may be just this generation of Forrester...

I just bought a new F-150 in January and the fit and finish of the interior is very nice. That said, I've never been in a Dodge that didn't feel cheap.

 

[exdeath]

Or the M3, or the 911...

Yeah but the STi has struts on ALL FOUR CORNERS! Bet it handles like a wet turd.

 

[Throckmorton]

Shhhh.... don't let the Evo or STi know that struts can't handle properly!!!

Do those cars not have very stiff suspensions to make up for the fact that struts are bad at camber control? I know a guy who does Rallycross and he was telling me about how much negative camber he had to dial in to his personal WRX. My reaction-- that shouldn't be necessary. It is because the cars use struts as a cost/space saving compromise.

Meanwhile a Miata handles great with a relatively soft suspension. It gains -.5 degrees camber for every 1 degree of body roll. How does an STi compare?


I think some people don't really understand suspension geometry so here's a thread with some diagrams http://www.f1technical.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=9315
And a history of the strut http://ateupwithmotor.com/technology/150-macpherson-strut-history.html

 

[foghorn67]

Do those cars not have very stiff suspensions to make up for the fact that struts are bad at camber control? I know a guy who does Rallycross and he was telling me about how much negative camber he had to dial in to his personal WRX. My reaction-- that shouldn't be necessary. It is because the cars use struts as a cost/space saving compromise.

Meanwhile a Miata handles great with a relatively soft suspension.


I think some people don't really understand suspension geometry so here's a thread with some diagrams http://www.f1technical.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=9315

That is because the Miata has a relatively stiff body. I think you need to learn the basics before you start listening to Rallycross advice.

 

[Howard]

Yeah but the STi has struts on ALL FOUR CORNERS! Bet it handles like a wet turd.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2To_5XjIaMk

7:55 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Nürburgring_Nordschleife_lap_times

 

[Throckmorton]

That is because the Miata has a relatively stiff body. I think you need to learn the basics before you start listening to Rallycross advice.

Half of the camber lost to body roll during a turn, a Miata gains back through suspension geometry. So lemme ask again, how does an STi compare?

 

[Throckmorton]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2To_5XjIaMk

7:55 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Nürburgring_Nordschleife_lap_times

Right... the STi has a pretty stiff suspension... for a reason... which is my entire point...

I think the lower control arms are pretty close to horizontal, so there's not much travel before the strut and the A-arm are perpendicular, which is when camber starts becoming more positive. If your suspension design tilts the tire out of a turn, instead of into it, you make it as stiff as possible. That's what I tried to get the OP to see... The myth that stiffer is better came about because of suspensions that work better by not working at all. IE struts.

 

[foghorn67]

Half of the camber lost to body roll during a turn, a Miata gains back through suspension geometry. So lemme ask again, how does an STi compare?

You are looking at the wrong question to solve what isn't a problem.

 

[IcePickFreak]

Lol, well I doubt either of those pieces just "fell" apart. They both look fixable with maybe 2 minutes worth of work (ie. less time than it took you to bitch about a rental car.)

 

[disappoint]

I think Throck has a point. Maybe I just don't get it. But shouldn't the suspension be working towards improving handling and not against it? Then you could have a softer ride while still cornering better.

 

[nerp]

That Charger was abused. I bought a 2012 and the fit and finish is as good or better than my previous two cars, a VW and a Toyota. I don't know wtf you're talking about in terms of handling. Sure, it's not a golf, but maybe you were just timid. This car is based off a Mercedes platform and the suspension is much improved over the previous generation. But here's the main point: this is a family sedan. It is not a sports car. If you get into a charger thinking it's a muscle car, you're missing the point. The ride is designed to be a bit soft and cushy. And it all depends on what version you're driving. There are models that have firmer suspension, bigger tires, etc. And then there's the base model. I know, it's easy to bash Chrysler. I used to. Am I concered about long-term reliability? A little. But not nearly as much as I would have a few years ago.

And I can be quite confident the car won't do what my VW did to me, which is break in annoying and unreasonable ways. Dead window motor at 35,000 miles. That's an $800 repair. Headlights that kept burning out after 6 months, regardless of which type of bulb I put in (and no, i did not touch anything with my bare hand). Was my toyota reliable? Yes. But it was the most boring appliance on wheels I've ever driven in my life.

 

[JulesMaximus]

That Charger was abused. I bought a 2012 and the fit and finish is as good or better than my previous two cars, a VW and a Toyota. I don't know wtf you're talking about in terms of handling. Sure, it's not a golf, but maybe you were just timid. This car is based off a Mercedes platform and the suspension is much improved over the previous generation. But here's the main point: this is a family sedan. It is not a sports car. If you get into a charger thinking it's a muscle car, you're missing the point. The ride is designed to be a bit soft and cushy. And it all depends on what version you're driving. There are models that have firmer suspension, bigger tires, etc. And then there's the base model. I know, it's easy to bash Chrysler. I used to. Am I concered about long-term reliability? A little. But not nearly as much as I would have a few years ago.

And I can be quite confident the car won't do what my VW did to me, which is break in annoying and unreasonable ways. Dead window motor at 35,000 miles. That's an $800 repair. Headlights that kept burning out after 6 months, regardless of which type of bulb I put in (and no, i did not touch anything with my bare hand). Was my toyota reliable? Yes. But it was the most boring appliance on wheels I've ever driven in my life.

The 300 I rented had no grip at the front end. It just felt like the harder you pushed it the more it wanted to go straight. Maybe part of that was due to the tires but man that car handled like a pig. My 9 year old Nissan Maxima handles better.