Shock and Awe.

[polm]

Originally posted by: Toasthead
umm if and when we go to war I surely hope that we hold nothing back. It is mot fair to our troops to not do EVERYTHING in our power to prepare the way for them. I can guarantee you thatIraq wont be holding back

hmmm....I guess as long as you keep thinking that American lives are more valuable than Iraqi lives, your point makes sence.

But....if you beleive, like I do, that ALL life is precious AND equal you will come to the conclusion that fighting the war the way you have suggested, is like beating your own brother with a baseball bat, simply because you know he will be fighting his hardest...even if he is only 2 and you are 18 .

 

[Ciber]

Originally posted by: polm

Originally posted by: Toasthead
umm if and when we go to war I surely hope that we hold nothing back. It is mot fair to our troops to not do EVERYTHING in our power to prepare the way for them. I can guarantee you thatIraq wont be holding back

hmmm....I guess as long as you keep thinking that American lives are more valuable than Iraqi lives, your point makes sence.

But....if you beleive, like I do, that ALL life is precious AND equal you will come to the conclusion that fighting the war the way you have suggested, is like beating your own brother with a baseball bat, simply because you know he will be fighting his hardest...even if he is only 2 and you are 18 .

Better safe than sorry? 😛

 

[SherEPunjab]

Originally posted by: polm
I am willing to put the question of SHOULD we go to war with Iraq aside....for it seems a futile point.

The major issue, IMHO, becomes HOW do we do this ?

Here is the US plan....and I must say it SICKENS me ! How dare we slaughter them like this.

"Shock and Awe" from news.google

I wonder if people who are supporting President Bush's war on Iraq are aware of what's in store for the Iraqi people. In keeping with the Powell Doctrine of maximum overkill, the Pentagon has developed a plan of attack called "Shock and Awe." On the first day alone, 300 to 400 Tomahawk cruise missiles would be launched, more than were launched during the entire 40 days of the Gulf War.

You didnt' know this before? This is why i'm against the current plan to war. we need a better solution.

 

[dabuddha]

Originally posted by: SherEPunjab

Originally posted by: polm
I am willing to put the question of SHOULD we go to war with Iraq aside....for it seems a futile point.

The major issue, IMHO, becomes HOW do we do this ?

Here is the US plan....and I must say it SICKENS me ! How dare we slaughter them like this.

"Shock and Awe" from news.google

I wonder if people who are supporting President Bush's war on Iraq are aware of what's in store for the Iraqi people. In keeping with the Powell Doctrine of maximum overkill, the Pentagon has developed a plan of attack called "Shock and Awe." On the first day alone, 300 to 400 Tomahawk cruise missiles would be launched, more than were launched during the entire 40 days of the Gulf War.

You didnt' know this before? This is why i'm against the current plan to war. we need a better solution.

Yeah like send more inspectors? Perhaps kindly beg "so damn insane" to give up his WMD and his evil ways?
This is what happened during WW2. Everyone tried to think of ways to stop Hitler without fighting. Even as far as giving him territory. Not till it was too late did they realize that there was no stopping him. We learned from our first mistake. Shame on us if we make the same mistake again because of a bunch of bleeding heart liberals

 

[dabuddha]

Originally posted by: polm

Originally posted by: Toasthead
umm if and when we go to war I surely hope that we hold nothing back. It is mot fair to our troops to not do EVERYTHING in our power to prepare the way for them. I can guarantee you thatIraq wont be holding back

hmmm....I guess as long as you keep thinking that American lives are more valuable than Iraqi lives, your point makes sence.

But....if you beleive, like I do, that ALL life is precious AND equal you will come to the conclusion that fighting the war the way you have suggested, is like beating your own brother with a baseball bat, simply because you know he will be fighting his hardest...even if he is only 2 and you are 18 .

It's not that we think American lives are more valuable than iraqi lives. It has nothing to do with that. Only people we're targeting are enemy soldiers who think that their lives are more valuable then our lives. We are not targeting civilians.

 

[StageLeft]

300-400 Tomahawks precision aimed at military targets != 300-400 Tomahawks aimed at mosques, banks, malls, and street markets.

 

[Hoober]

Originally posted by: Jehovah
Scary and disgusting that we even consider this atrocity. :disgust:

 

[polm]

Originally posted by: dabuddha

Originally posted by: polm

Originally posted by: Toasthead
umm if and when we go to war I surely hope that we hold nothing back. It is mot fair to our troops to not do EVERYTHING in our power to prepare the way for them. I can guarantee you thatIraq wont be holding back

hmmm....I guess as long as you keep thinking that American lives are more valuable than Iraqi lives, your point makes sence.

But....if you beleive, like I do, that ALL life is precious AND equal you will come to the conclusion that fighting the war the way you have suggested, is like beating your own brother with a baseball bat, simply because you know he will be fighting his hardest...even if he is only 2 and you are 18 .

It's not that we think American lives are more valuable than iraqi lives. It has nothing to do with that. Only people we're targeting are enemy soldiers who think that their lives are more valuable then our lives. We are not targeting civilians.

Have you ever stopped to consider the difference between an American soldier and an Iraqi soldier ?

Choice...for one. How about that ??

How about fighting a foreign threat on your OWN soil ? Where your family and friends are potential targets.

Have some consideration for the location of the battle. You must understand that innocent people live in ALL of the places we will be attacking. They have NO choice to leave. They have NO choice NOT to fight. It is either follow the leader or DIE for them.

This is not the same for America. This is not the same for American Soldiers. Their mothers and fathers are not under attack.

Have some consideration for the people in the region, and carry this war our with concern for THEIR safety as HIGH on the list as the safety of our own soldiers....that is ALL I want to see.

 

[Kadarin]

Originally posted by: polm

Originally posted by: Toasthead
umm if and when we go to war I surely hope that we hold nothing back. It is mot fair to our troops to not do EVERYTHING in our power to prepare the way for them. I can guarantee you thatIraq wont be holding back

hmmm....I guess as long as you keep thinking that American lives are more valuable than Iraqi lives, your point makes sence.

But....if you beleive, like I do, that ALL life is precious AND equal you will come to the conclusion that fighting the war the way you have suggested, is like beating your own brother with a baseball bat, simply because you know he will be fighting his hardest...even if he is only 2 and you are 18 .

I'm sure glad you're not a military war planner...

 

[SherEPunjab]

Originally posted by: dabuddha

Originally posted by: SherEPunjab

Originally posted by: polm
I am willing to put the question of SHOULD we go to war with Iraq aside....for it seems a futile point.

The major issue, IMHO, becomes HOW do we do this ?

Here is the US plan....and I must say it SICKENS me ! How dare we slaughter them like this.

"Shock and Awe" from news.google

I wonder if people who are supporting President Bush's war on Iraq are aware of what's in store for the Iraqi people. In keeping with the Powell Doctrine of maximum overkill, the Pentagon has developed a plan of attack called "Shock and Awe." On the first day alone, 300 to 400 Tomahawk cruise missiles would be launched, more than were launched during the entire 40 days of the Gulf War.

You didnt' know this before? This is why i'm against the current plan to war. we need a better solution.

Yeah like send more inspectors? Perhaps kindly beg "so damn insane" to give up his WMD and his evil ways?
This is what happened during WW2. Everyone tried to think of ways to stop Hitler without fighting. Even as far as giving him territory. Not till it was too late did they realize that there was no stopping him. We learned from our first mistake. Shame on us if we make the same mistake again because of a bunch of bleeding heart liberals

not at all man. I'm all for action (and violence if needed), but focused violence. controlled violence, and justified violence.

okay i may be naive in my thinking, but why can't we send thousands of allied (everyone, chinese, americans, russians, italians, indians, pakistanis, turks, brits, aussies, etc. etc.) ground troops to go in and totally take out Saddaams regime? I know that will entail hunting down perhaps thousands of offenders, so what, lets do it. I won't stand for any government dropping hundreds of bombs over cities and endangering the lives of innocents though. no way. not with my tax money (as if i had ANY control with how they spend MY money anyway.... 🙁)

 

[polm]

Originally posted by: Astaroth33

Originally posted by: polm

Originally posted by: Toasthead
umm if and when we go to war I surely hope that we hold nothing back. It is mot fair to our troops to not do EVERYTHING in our power to prepare the way for them. I can guarantee you thatIraq wont be holding back

hmmm....I guess as long as you keep thinking that American lives are more valuable than Iraqi lives, your point makes sence.

But....if you beleive, like I do, that ALL life is precious AND equal you will come to the conclusion that fighting the war the way you have suggested, is like beating your own brother with a baseball bat, simply because you know he will be fighting his hardest...even if he is only 2 and you are 18 .

I'm sure glad you're not a military war planner...

me too 🙂

 

[CPA]

For those of you who fell dropping 400 bombs or any amount of bombs on Iraq is an atrocity, I do hope you realize it is Saddam that is using his own people as shields. We are not forcing him to hid his soldiers amongst the commoners, he is, because he knows it will make some of you feel for him and his people. It's as much a psychological ploy as a strategic one. And you have been duped.


It would be nice to fight battles like they did in 1600s and prior, but face it, we no longer line up our troops 100 paces a part and take volleys at each other. Didn't you learn that from 9/11?

 

[SherEPunjab]

Originally posted by: CPA
For those of you who fell dropping 400 bombs or any amount of bombs on Iraq is an atrocity, I do hope you realize it is Saddam that is using his own people as shields. We are not forcing him to hid his soldiers amongst the commoners, he is, because he knows it will make some of you feel for him and his people. It's as much a psychological ploy as a strategic one. And you have been duped.


It would be nice to fight battles like they did in 1600s and prior, but face it, we no longer line up our troops 100 paces a part and take volleys at each other. Didn't you learn that from 9/11?

So CPA, if you wanted to shoot a man, and that man picked up his baby and held it in front of his body, to protect him from the bullet that you're about to shoot through him, would you still shoot?

 

[StageLeft]

It would be nice to fight battles like they did in 1600s and prior, but face it, we no longer line up our troops 100 paces a part and take volleys at each other.

And thank God for that. Everytime I see an old civil war movie I'm like "Get the hell down on the ground damnit!"

 

[polm]

Originally posted by: CPA
For those of you who fell dropping 400 bombs or any amount of bombs on Iraq is an atrocity, I do hope you realize it is Saddam that is using his own people as shields. We are not forcing him to hid his soldiers amongst the commoners, he is, because he knows it will make some of you feel for him and his people. It's as much a psychological ploy as a strategic one. And you have been duped.


It would be nice to fight battles like they did in 1600s and prior, but face it, we no longer line up our troops 100 paces a part and take volleys at each other. Didn't you learn that from 9/11?

I was just going to say the same thing:

watch this Rumsfield Breifing from yesterday HERE : http://www.cspan.org/VideoArchives.asp?Cat=Issue&Code=WHE (The Breifing should be the first selection)

Just remember it WAS NOT these people's choice to become human shields. They have been FORCED to become so. As angry as that makes us with Saddam we MUST respect the INNOCENCE of these people in the strategic way they have been placed.

So regardless...I dont want to hear ANY MORE about how we will not be TARGETTING civilians...cuz Rumsfield just said we were.

 

[dabuddha]

Originally posted by: SherEPunjab

Originally posted by: CPA
For those of you who fell dropping 400 bombs or any amount of bombs on Iraq is an atrocity, I do hope you realize it is Saddam that is using his own people as shields. We are not forcing him to hid his soldiers amongst the commoners, he is, because he knows it will make some of you feel for him and his people. It's as much a psychological ploy as a strategic one. And you have been duped.


It would be nice to fight battles like they did in 1600s and prior, but face it, we no longer line up our troops 100 paces a part and take volleys at each other. Didn't you learn that from 9/11?

So CPA, if you wanted to shoot a man, and that man picked up his baby and held it in front of his body, to protect him from the bullet that you're about to shoot through him, would you still shoot?

if the man had every intent to kill me, then yes i would. Of course I'd be like robocop and shoot him in the family jewels 😀

 

[StageLeft]

So CPA, if you wanted to shoot a man, and that man picked up his baby and held it in front of his body, to protect him from the bullet that you're about to shoot through him, would you still shoot?

If you think that if you leave him be he'll go on a killing spree it's a risk you'd have to take.

 

[dabuddha]

Originally posted by: SherEPunjab

Originally posted by: dabuddha

Originally posted by: SherEPunjab

Originally posted by: polm
I am willing to put the question of SHOULD we go to war with Iraq aside....for it seems a futile point.

The major issue, IMHO, becomes HOW do we do this ?

Here is the US plan....and I must say it SICKENS me ! How dare we slaughter them like this.

"Shock and Awe" from news.google

I wonder if people who are supporting President Bush's war on Iraq are aware of what's in store for the Iraqi people. In keeping with the Powell Doctrine of maximum overkill, the Pentagon has developed a plan of attack called "Shock and Awe." On the first day alone, 300 to 400 Tomahawk cruise missiles would be launched, more than were launched during the entire 40 days of the Gulf War.

You didnt' know this before? This is why i'm against the current plan to war. we need a better solution.

Yeah like send more inspectors? Perhaps kindly beg "so damn insane" to give up his WMD and his evil ways?
This is what happened during WW2. Everyone tried to think of ways to stop Hitler without fighting. Even as far as giving him territory. Not till it was too late did they realize that there was no stopping him. We learned from our first mistake. Shame on us if we make the same mistake again because of a bunch of bleeding heart liberals

not at all man. I'm all for action (and violence if needed), but focused violence. controlled violence, and justified violence.

okay i may be naive in my thinking, but why can't we send thousands of allied (everyone, chinese, americans, russians, italians, indians, pakistanis, turks, brits, aussies, etc. etc.) ground troops to go in and totally take out Saddaams regime? I know that will entail hunting down perhaps thousands of offenders, so what, lets do it. I won't stand for any government dropping hundreds of bombs over cities and endangering the lives of innocents though. no way. not with my tax money (as if i had ANY control with how they spend MY money anyway.... 🙁)

well the bombing isn't completely random. They are targeting military bases only. Keep in mind, if we send in ground troops, that it will most likely result in a blood bath.

 

[polm]

if the man had every intent to kill me, then yes i would. Of course I'd be like robocop and shoot him in the family jewels 😀

then clearly you value your own life over the life of an innocent child.

 

[StageLeft]

Just remember it WAS NOT these people's choice to become human shields. They have been FORCED to become so.

Except in the case of the clowns who are flying over to volunteer for the position you're right. Unfortunately there isn't a hell of a lot that can be done save being really as careful as possible and, where a tank is next to an office building, perhaps saying forget that one for now.

 

[polm]

well the bombing isn't completely random. They are targeting military bases only. Keep in mind, if we send in ground troops, that it will most likely result in a blood bath.

Rumsfield said yesterday that the military installations are ALL placed in the immediate or close proximity to installations of purely CIVILIAN use...like Mosques.

So any targetting of military installations will be targetting of civilian installations as well.

 

[dabuddha]

Originally posted by: polm

if the man had every intent to kill me, then yes i would. Of course I'd be like robocop and shoot him in the family jewels 😀

then clearly you value your own life over the life of an innocent child.

no not at all. I don't value my life above an innocent child's. I do value my life over a murdering maniac who I feel will threaten others.
the sad thing is that your kind of thinking is what terrorists want. They hijack a plane, you'd give in to every demand to make sure the "innocent people" survive. What if the guy holding the baby said to bring him a nuclear weapon or he'll execute the baby?

 

[dabuddha]

Originally posted by: polm

well the bombing isn't completely random. They are targeting military bases only. Keep in mind, if we send in ground troops, that it will most likely result in a blood bath.

Rumsfield said yesterday that the military installations are ALL placed in the immediate or close proximity to installations of purely CIVILIAN use...like Mosques.

So any targetting of military installations will be targetting of civilian installations as well.

That is Saddams doing. We are only targeting military targets. He chose to put them in close proximity to civilian places

 

[polm]

Originally posted by: dabuddha

Originally posted by: polm

if the man had every intent to kill me, then yes i would. Of course I'd be like robocop and shoot him in the family jewels 😀

then clearly you value your own life over the life of an innocent child.

no not at all. I don't value my life above an innocent child's. I do value my life over a murdering maniac who I feel will threaten others.
the sad thing is that your kind of thinking is what terrorists want. They hijack a plane, you'd give in to every demand to make sure the "innocent people" survive. What if the guy holding the baby said to bring him a nuclear weapon or he'll execute the baby?

look the question was NOT if the man had intention of killing ANYONE but YOU. Now all of a sudden the MAN , in question, has a nuclear weapon ???

"if the man had every intent to kill me, then yes I would" .... YOU said ME , and NOT "Someone Else"

 

[SherEPunjab]

Originally posted by: dabuddha

Originally posted by: SherEPunjab

Originally posted by: CPA
For those of you who fell dropping 400 bombs or any amount of bombs on Iraq is an atrocity, I do hope you realize it is Saddam that is using his own people as shields. We are not forcing him to hid his soldiers amongst the commoners, he is, because he knows it will make some of you feel for him and his people. It's as much a psychological ploy as a strategic one. And you have been duped.


It would be nice to fight battles like they did in 1600s and prior, but face it, we no longer line up our troops 100 paces a part and take volleys at each other. Didn't you learn that from 9/11?

So CPA, if you wanted to shoot a man, and that man picked up his baby and held it in front of his body, to protect him from the bullet that you're about to shoot through him, would you still shoot?

if the man had every intent to kill me, then yes i would. Of course I'd be like robocop and shoot him in the family jewels 😀

North Korea has more of an intent to kill me. As does Osama Bin Laden. Is there 'intent' any less of a threat? No, it is much more. Our intelligence indicates that Iraq will NOT attack us unless provoked. But according to what N. Korea says and according to what OBL has DONE, we know those are more imminent threats.