Shock and awe after-effects

[tvarad]

But I think this is a blessing in disguise for the middle-east. It is better that they jaw-jaw with each other rather than think that the U.S. has a magic wand cure for their mostly self-inflicted wounds.

But what does it do for U.S. credibility?

Mideast negotiations now bypassing Washington
By Warren P. Strobel and Hannah Allam | McClatchy Newspapers

WASHINGTON ? In a week of dramatic developments in the Middle East, the most dramatic development of all may have been the fact that the United States, long considered the region's indispensable player, was missing in action.

As its closest allies cut deals with their adversaries this week over the Bush administration's opposition, Washington was largely reduced to watching.

Read on ...

 

[Nebor]

We've made so much progress that they can now work things out for themselves. It's what we always wanted.

 

[techs]

Originally posted by: Nebor
We've made so much progress that they can now work things out for themselves. It's what we always wanted.

Others said that by refusing to talk to adversaries and using bristling "with-us-or-against-us" rhetoric, Bush has cut his administration out of the game. Under Bush, U.S. diplomats have had few substantive discussions with Iran, Syria, Hezbollah or the militant Palestinian group Hamas, which in 2006 won elections that the White House had pushed for.

"In that sense, we've dealt ourselves out of the picture," said Richard W. Murphy, a former ambassador to Saudi Arabia and Syria and an assistant secretary of state in the Reagan administration.

Added Marina Ottaway of the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace: "The United States has taken a really hard-line position on all these situations, without being able to deliver in the end."

Only Nebor sees a massive U.S. failure as a success.
Then again only Nebor is willing to do anything to keep George Bush in office against our very Constitution:

Originally posted by: Nebor

Originally posted by: Hyperblaze
And yet they were voted in the office....twice.

Where are all them bush supporters?

Probably cheering "4 more years."

I'd vote for him again. Or support any other method he used to remain in power.

 

[Lemon law]

Happily that US slide into diplomatic irrelevance will be arrested and reversed when the next American President is elected.
But by the time the the next administration gets through the preparation processes, it will be a year from now before our next secretary of State is confirmed and our embassies get staffed.

While the United States and its congress seem content to waste another year bungling around long enough for all backward Bush watches to tick to zero, other countries are seeming charting their own courses because they are unwilling to waste time.

I think the conclusion is unmistakable, the GWB&co foreign policy has been an extraordinary failure almost unprecedented in world history.

And to think, just seven short years ago the USA was respected in diplomatic circles. Now we come to this, and at best, GWB is the little boy who cried wolf. The USA won't talk to Iran and Syria has become NO ONE will talk to us.

 

[Lemon law]

Right now GWB&co has about a 27% domestic approval rating and has been mired at that less than 40% level for more than two years.

World wide, we seem to be alienating our allies and emboldening our enemies. I don't think there are any world wide polls for a US approval, but its certainly under single digits in the mid east now.

Yet to listen to GWB speak, its almost like he thinks he just won the Nobel peace prize or something. I think much of our problems are partly traceable to the total disconnect between reality and rhetoric. In short, GWB has lost all touch with reality. But he can cope well in a circle of equally crazy advisers.

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

You mean those countries aren't quite the US puppets that some claim them to be?

No doubt they'll stay that way until they decide to do something that's favorable to US policy, then they'll be deemed puppets once again by the usual suspects. That's how politics, or at least the perceptions of convenience in partisan politics, works these days.

btw, it's good to see them doing something for themselves. That way they can be blamed for their own screw-ups.

 

[Nebor]

Originally posted by: techs

Originally posted by: Nebor
We've made so much progress that they can now work things out for themselves. It's what we always wanted.

Others said that by refusing to talk to adversaries and using bristling "with-us-or-against-us" rhetoric, Bush has cut his administration out of the game. Under Bush, U.S. diplomats have had few substantive discussions with Iran, Syria, Hezbollah or the militant Palestinian group Hamas, which in 2006 won elections that the White House had pushed for.

"In that sense, we've dealt ourselves out of the picture," said Richard W. Murphy, a former ambassador to Saudi Arabia and Syria and an assistant secretary of state in the Reagan administration.

Added Marina Ottaway of the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace: "The United States has taken a really hard-line position on all these situations, without being able to deliver in the end."

Only Nebor sees a massive U.S. failure as a success.
Then again only Nebor is willing to do anything to keep George Bush in office against our very Constitution:

Originally posted by: Nebor

Originally posted by: Hyperblaze
And yet they were voted in the office....twice.

Where are all them bush supporters?

Probably cheering "4 more years."

I'd vote for him again. Or support any other method he used to remain in power.

They don't even realize that we've manipulated them into solving their problems for themselves. Sure they might like us less, but you can't argue with the results.

 

[jackschmittusa]

How some of you people can cheer the loss of U.S. influence and prestige in the world is beyond me. Oh wait! It's the same people that don't understand military strategy that don't understand diplomatic strategy!

It has never been our goal to have them leave us out of decisions. The M.E. is far too important to us for us to not want to be part of negotiations that may affect our interests. We have always wanted a role where we could try to steer decisions so they are favorable to us.

Actually being part of such talks allows us to understand other people's wants, needs, and agendas. The positions discussed at a diplomatic level are often far more accurate that the bluster put out for public consumption. When we are part of such discussions, we have the opportunity to exert influence to achieve favorable (in our opinion) outcomes.

Yes, we have always wanted them to discuss their problems so they could be solved, but likewise, we have always felt it important to be a part of the discussions.

Being left in the dark has a far higher probability of outcomes that we will not like.

Oh well. We can always go back to relying on old fashioned gunboat diplomacy.

 

[Lemon law]

Nebor is just the opposite of a person who would bitch if they hung him with a new rope. It least the rational can hope a old rope would break, but rationality and Nebor are total strangers. Its one thing to see a cup as half full or half empty, but Nebor seems to be claiming that a totally shattered cup will hold water. And the freed slave will come back begging to be put back into bondage.

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: Nebor

Originally posted by: techs

Originally posted by: Nebor
We've made so much progress that they can now work things out for themselves. It's what we always wanted.

Others said that by refusing to talk to adversaries and using bristling "with-us-or-against-us" rhetoric, Bush has cut his administration out of the game. Under Bush, U.S. diplomats have had few substantive discussions with Iran, Syria, Hezbollah or the militant Palestinian group Hamas, which in 2006 won elections that the White House had pushed for.

"In that sense, we've dealt ourselves out of the picture," said Richard W. Murphy, a former ambassador to Saudi Arabia and Syria and an assistant secretary of state in the Reagan administration.

Added Marina Ottaway of the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace: "The United States has taken a really hard-line position on all these situations, without being able to deliver in the end."

Only Nebor sees a massive U.S. failure as a success.
Then again only Nebor is willing to do anything to keep George Bush in office against our very Constitution:

Originally posted by: Nebor

Originally posted by: Hyperblaze
And yet they were voted in the office....twice.

Where are all them bush supporters?

Probably cheering "4 more years."

I'd vote for him again. Or support any other method he used to remain in power.

They don't even realize that we've manipulated them into solving their problems for themselves. Sure they might like us less, but you can't argue with the results.

Oh Nebor you're just trolling now.

 

[techs]

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: Nebor

Originally posted by: techs

Originally posted by: Nebor
We've made so much progress that they can now work things out for themselves. It's what we always wanted.

Others said that by refusing to talk to adversaries and using bristling "with-us-or-against-us" rhetoric, Bush has cut his administration out of the game. Under Bush, U.S. diplomats have had few substantive discussions with Iran, Syria, Hezbollah or the militant Palestinian group Hamas, which in 2006 won elections that the White House had pushed for.

"In that sense, we've dealt ourselves out of the picture," said Richard W. Murphy, a former ambassador to Saudi Arabia and Syria and an assistant secretary of state in the Reagan administration.

Added Marina Ottaway of the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace: "The United States has taken a really hard-line position on all these situations, without being able to deliver in the end."

Only Nebor sees a massive U.S. failure as a success.
Then again only Nebor is willing to do anything to keep George Bush in office against our very Constitution:

Originally posted by: Nebor

Originally posted by: Hyperblaze
And yet they were voted in the office....twice.

Where are all them bush supporters?

Probably cheering "4 more years."

I'd vote for him again. Or support any other method he used to remain in power.

They don't even realize that we've manipulated them into solving their problems for themselves. Sure they might like us less, but you can't argue with the results.

Oh Nebor you're just trolling now.

Seriously, I am convinced he believes what he posts.
Scary, isn't it?