Shifting into First

[npoe1]

I know that you shouldn't switch to first with your car in movement (manual transmission) but ignoring that. I would like to know why is so hard to shift to 1st even if you are barely moving (<5 mph).

Thank you,

 

[punjabiplaya]

mine's not. once you get above 20ish, it gets hard, but once I push in and hear it spin up it goes right in (not that I do it a lot, or even really at all).

 

[Howard]

My guess is something that's physically blocking the gear shift so that the engine can't asplode.

 

[PlasmaBomb]

What car and what age is it?

Could be a bent dog/selector...

 

[Eli]

Because your poor synchro has to spin up the whole input shaft and clutch to the correct RPM.

I think. :hmm:

 

[punjabiplaya]

you might have busted synchros too (the above are not broken)

 

[Zenmervolt]

I know that you shouldn't switch to first with your car in movement (manual transmission)

That used to be true back in the 1970's and 1980's for cheaper cars, but any modern manual transmission will have a synchronized 1st gear which will allow you to shift into 1st while moving. You don't want to be moving fast, but shifting into 1st at 5mph in a modern car should be perfectly fine.

I would like to know why is so hard to shift to 1st even if you are barely moving (<5 mph).

Two primary reasons:

1) The first gear synchro is usually much weaker (by design, because most people don't use 1st once the car is moving) than the synchros for other gears, which makes shifting while in motion more difficult.

2) Because the 1st gear synchro is weaker, it wears out faster, which further makes it harder to shift while in motion. This reason tends to come into play more with older cars that have been pushed a bit hard in the past by owners who tend to downshift from 2nd to first at higher than normal speeds.

ZV

 

[Demo24]

I know that you shouldn't switch to first with your car in movement (manual transmission) but ignoring that. I would like to know why is so hard to shift to 1st even if you are barely moving (<5 mph).

Thank you,

Some cars are easier to do this than others. Largely it's due to how smooth and how many sychro's they want to throw into the transmission. My Subaru only has a single synchro on first gear, meaning getting into while moving is a challenge especially when its cold. However I've driver other cars, Hondas seem good in this regard, that go in significantly easier and at higher rates of speed.

 

[Viperoni]

That used to be true back in the 1970's and 1980's for cheaper cars, but any modern manual transmission will have a synchronized 1st gear which will allow you to shift into 1st while moving. You don't want to be moving fast, but shifting into 1st at 5mph in a modern car should be perfectly fine.



Two primary reasons:

1) The first gear synchro is usually much weaker (by design, because most people don't use 1st once the car is moving) than the synchros for other gears, which makes shifting while in motion more difficult.

2) Because the 1st gear synchro is weaker, it wears out faster, which further makes it harder to shift while in motion. This reason tends to come into play more with older cars that have been pushed a bit hard in the past by owners who tend to downshift from 2nd to first at higher than normal speeds.

ZV

This. No further thought is neccessary.

My personal experience is that I've never owned a manual transmission car that has been able to shift into first from a roll. I can always double-clutch on the shift and get it in just fine though. A tell-tale sign of....

 

[npoe1]

Thanks for the answers.

The cars I driven have been new, so I was the only driver and no abuse on them. Two Ford Fiesta (2004 & 20011) and one Ecosport (2007), probably the same transmission or basically the same on those 3 cars.

The weak synchronizer on first gear sounds like a solid option although the manual just mention to not downshift to first above ~20 mph.

 

[mmntech]

Using my limited knowledge, I'd say the reason you're not supposed to downshift to first above 20mph is because the car will violently decelerate. Probably over-stresses the transmission too.

 

[Murloc]

I haven't driven old cars, but I didn't find it difficult to do when barely moving. Never tried at higher speeds since it's not necessary and ruins the car.

 

[Eli]

Using my limited knowledge, I'd say the reason you're not supposed to downshift to first above 20mph is because the car will violently decelerate. Probably over-stresses the transmission too.

If I must shift into 1st while moving, I always revmatch at least.

 

[Viperoni]

Using my limited knowledge, I'd say the reason you're not supposed to downshift to first above 20mph is because the car will violently decelerate. Probably over-stresses the transmission too.

It'll accelerate as violently as if you launched from first, as opposed to downshifting into it.

 

[reallyscrued]

If I must shift into 1st while moving, I always revmatch at least.

This.

Poor synchro, or something of the like.

Next time you have to shift into first and it isn't going in easily:

1. Clutch out
2. gas to 2k rpm (play around with this number)
3. while rpms are still above idle, clutch in put it in first.

It should slip right in. Or make a grinding noise, whatever.

 

[npoe1]

I'm going to give a try to rev matching and see what happens.

 

[BW86]

like stated above - just give it a little throttle blip and it'll go right in

 

[RocksteadyDotNet]

Learn to double clutch. Your syncros will thank you.

And your downshifts will be smoother.

EDIT: Someone already said rev matchin. But rev-matchin <> double clutchin.

 

[cheezmunky]

Learn to double clutch. Your syncros will thank you.

And your downshifts will be smoother.

EDIT: Someone already said rev matchin. But rev-matchin <> double clutchin.

My Subaru hates going into first while moving, but double-clutching and a blip of the throttle and it goes right into gear. I'm sure my transmission appreciates it as well

 

[CraigRT]

Used to have to put my car into first while moving because the clutch pressure plate was so shot. Now, after I changed the clutch, no such issue! It's kinda nice, and I know its easier on the (newer) trans.

 

[ShawnD1]

I'm going to give a try to rev matching and see what happens.

Always rev match. Not just first gear, but all gears. Those idiots who need the clutch changed on a yearly basis are the ones who downshift without matching. The whole car lurching is a sign of how much stress that puts on your clutch.

 

[Possessed Freak]

Pish I shift into first while the damn car is still moving backwards after I reverse out of a parking spot. But then again I can shift through any gears after first without the clutch (and downshift too). I did accidentally downshift into first a couple of times (forgot what gear I was in during a turn and downshifted while I was in second) and man did that piss off my engine.

Go go Mighty Saturn.

 

[ShawnD1]

Pish I shift into first while the damn car is still moving backwards after I reverse out of a parking spot. But then again I can shift through any gears after first without the clutch (and downshift too). I did accidentally downshift into first a couple of times (forgot what gear I was in during a turn and downshifted while I was in second) and man did that piss off my engine.

Go go Mighty Saturn.

Remember how I said I don't ever want to buy another used car? Yeah.

A hell of a lot of people do that in automatics as well. They're backing out of their driveway or parking space and they pop it in drive while it's still rolling back. Not like that's hard on the tranny or anything....
Even worse is when they don't wait for it to come to a stop before hammering the gas. By that I mean the car is rolling backward, but the car is in drive and they're hitting the gas.

I'm pretty sure my Ford Tempo was fucked because the previous owner did that a lot. Even if I came to a complete stop before shifting from R to D, hitting the gas would still make a hard BANG before the transmission actually engaged and started moving the car forward.

 

[Toastedlightly]

Remember how I said I don't ever want to buy another used car? Yeah.

A hell of a lot of people do that in automatics as well. They're backing out of their driveway or parking space and they pop it in drive while it's still rolling back. Not like that's hard on the tranny or anything....
Even worse is when they don't wait for it to come to a stop before hammering the gas. By that I mean the car is rolling backward, but the car is in drive and they're hitting the gas.

I'm pretty sure my Ford Tempo was fucked because the previous owner did that a lot. Even if I came to a complete stop before shifting from R to D, hitting the gas would still make a hard BANG before the transmission actually engaged and started moving the car forward.

I really don't think that the pre-emptive shifting was responsible for the transmission's failure. Sounds more like a failing pump or gummed up valve body...

 

[LTC8K6]

With an auto, when I back up I hit neutral once I get going, then I stop, then into drive. To people who don't realize, it looks like I am putting it in drive while rolling backwards, but I'm actually just hitting neutral, which shuts off the reverse lights.