Shift 2: Who's playing? What are your thoughts?

dpodblood

Diamond Member
May 20, 2010
4,020
1
81
Anyone else pick up Shift 2 yesterday? I've only had a chance to play with it for a few hours so far, but I'm quite happy with it. The changes to the upgrade, and tuning sections are great. And the physics are similar to the game, but improved in the area's where they needed to be. The new tracks, and the new track layouts are great too. There are a few dissapointments as well:

1) The menu, and lobby system is terrible.
2) There is no car damage in the multiplayer component (the biggest disappointment).
3) Track cut penalties have not been removed like they promised.

Overall though, a very good game.

Anyone who want's an autolog friend send me a PM. :)
 

TechBoyJK

Lifer
Oct 17, 2002
16,699
60
91
How is it compared to something like Gran Turismo?

I have NFS HP2 on PC and PS3. Fun Game! But I'd like something a bit more SIM based, like Forza or GT5.
 

CVSiN

Diamond Member
Jul 19, 2004
9,289
1
0
It's trying hard to be a sim..
it definitely does not handle at all like a NFS title..
if you try to drive like you do in those games you will fail miserably. It has the racing line and some assists like Forza and GT that can be turned off to make it harder.

So far for me Drift is the hardest part.. I just cant get it..
its brutally unforgiving.
I'm liking it but not playing MP at all.
single player only..
it is a gorgeous game though on PC with everything maxed on the 580.

very smooth very fast.
 

dpodblood

Diamond Member
May 20, 2010
4,020
1
81
I have never played GT5, or Forza, but from what I understand it is not as "sim like" as those games. Still it leans far towards a sim, and far away from other Need for Speed games (It's nothing like Hot Pursuit, Carbon, Most Wanted, etc). It's not what I would call and arcade racer by any means. And yes on a good gaming machine it is beautiful and smooth.
 

SniperWulf

Golden Member
Dec 11, 1999
1,563
6
81
just posted this in the console forum:

I like it! I wish the physics were more Forza3-ish though. The cars slide too easy and none feel like they have any grip. Even after a full suspension and tires. Once I adjust, I probably won't notice it so much though
 

CVSiN

Diamond Member
Jul 19, 2004
9,289
1
0
just posted this in the console forum:

I like it! I wish the physics were more Forza3-ish though. The cars slide too easy and none feel like they have any grip. Even after a full suspension and tires. Once I adjust, I probably won't notice it so much though

hmm I'm finding the exact opposite NO SLIDING AT ALL..
even when jamming the E brake in corners it just stops completely instead of sliding..
 

dpodblood

Diamond Member
May 20, 2010
4,020
1
81
I find that there is much more grip in this game when compared to Shift 1. On the other hand in Shift 1 I was able to use my handbrake to assist in slowing down, or to help take a corner. In shift to I find if I even touch the hand brake it just causes the car to spin.
 

SniperWulf

Golden Member
Dec 11, 1999
1,563
6
81
hmm I'm finding the exact opposite NO SLIDING AT ALL..
even when jamming the E brake in corners it just stops completely instead of sliding..


really? what car and track? Oh, and are you using a wheel?

The first thing I did was buy a 135, change the suspension and tires and take it around the 'ring in quick race. Using an older Logitech Driving Force Pro setup
 

dpodblood

Diamond Member
May 20, 2010
4,020
1
81
Who here likes the new car rating system? It's kind of neat for multiplayer since you and your friends can choose cars around the same performance rating, but I find it annoying for SP because it makes your car non-eligible for certain events.
 

CVSiN

Diamond Member
Jul 19, 2004
9,289
1
0
really? what car and track? Oh, and are you using a wheel?

The first thing I did was buy a 135, change the suspension and tires and take it around the 'ring in quick race. Using an older Logitech Driving Force Pro setup

Everything so far.. the Skyline in the beginning.. the Audi in the nub cars 100% stock..
the G35 even tricked out still sticks too well.

and all the hot lap cars so far.. I dunno .. Im using the Xbox controller on my PC.

Now the drift cars are too loose big time.
 

drebo

Diamond Member
Feb 24, 2006
7,034
1
81
Honestly, I can't stand Shift 2. The steering is abysmally slow. There's a full half-second between when I tell the game to turn and the car actually starts turning. I know for a FACT that if you're going 80 MPH, even a small change in wheel position will be felt by the car IMMEDIATELY.

Add to that the fact that if you get so much as tapped by another car from behind, you'll go flying at 200MPH to the nearest wall, regardless of how far away that wall actually is, and hit it in a big smokey, cutscene of destruction. I'm sorry, but even going 80MPH, getting tapped from behind is not going to send you flying off into a series of 25 cartwheels...unless you're hit by a fucking rocket or something... And the AI of the other drivers is not at all smart enough to try and avoid you...it's like freaking Super Mario Kart AI here.

I thoroughly enjoyed Shift, and I was hoping that this one would be a lot like that one with more cars, more tracks, and better AI. Compared to the original, though, this is just as ruined as Dragon Age 2. Thanks, EA.
 

CVSiN

Diamond Member
Jul 19, 2004
9,289
1
0
Honestly, I can't stand Shift 2. The steering is abysmally slow. There's a full half-second between when I tell the game to turn and the car actually starts turning. I know for a FACT that if you're going 80 MPH, even a small change in wheel position will be felt by the car IMMEDIATELY.

Add to that the fact that if you get so much as tapped by another car from behind, you'll go flying at 200MPH to the nearest wall, regardless of how far away that wall actually is, and hit it in a big smokey, cutscene of destruction. I'm sorry, but even going 80MPH, getting tapped from behind is not going to send you flying off into a series of 25 cartwheels...unless you're hit by a fucking rocket or something... And the AI of the other drivers is not at all smart enough to try and avoid you...it's like freaking Super Mario Kart AI here.

I thoroughly enjoyed Shift, and I was hoping that this one would be a lot like that one with more cars, more tracks, and better AI. Compared to the original, though, this is just as ruined as Dragon Age 2. Thanks, EA.

played for about 5 hours now and have not seen any of these issues here..
Cars are very responsive and easy to maintain lines on the track even on extreme with no assists.

I "rub" other drivers quite a bit no issues here either as I am a very agressive driver.. and rubbing is racing.. I have not wrecked my car yet due to minor collisions.

The only hard part for me that I wish I could flat bypass is the drifting..
as much as Id love to be able to do this in real life.. the implementation in Shift 2 is super hard and unforgiving.
 

CVSiN

Diamond Member
Jul 19, 2004
9,289
1
0
As dissapointing as it is, I'm starting to wonder if i should just unplug the wheel and go with the 360 controller too

I did find a mod that I plan to try first though. Found it here (about 5 posts down):
http://www.nogripracing.com/forum/showthread.php?t=246577

supposed to change the tire grip and make them feel less floaty, but we will see

Hmm must be a wheel and other controller only issue..
guess they only tested the 360 controller lol..
nice job beta testing lol..
 

mwmorph

Diamond Member
Dec 27, 2004
8,877
1
81
Here's my mini review at level 15.

The Good

1. The car selection is nice. It's great to see some of these cars represented. It's also nice to see even your starter cars can switch classes by upgrading. It's nice to see the attention to detail. The engine sounds great and guages are unique and representative of each car.

2. It does seem like a labor of love, looks like effort was obviously put in it to make it a good game. The design and presentation is outstanding. Unique event posters are a nice touch, live motion intro videos are okay, but please for the love of god make them skip-able. I think I can get my mind around what a time attack means without Vaughn Gittin Jr. explaining it to me.

3. There is no grinding in this game at all. Money tends to stack up quickly so far, events open up way before you get to them sequentially if you race well. Lots of free cars is also a plus. Gran Turismo serie's design of race this race 5 million times and then grind licenses doesn't apply here. A+, a game should be about the excitement of racing and the cars, not the "real life" effort it takes to grind to buy one. Cars and upgrades can be sold for 100% of their purchase value.

4. Night races are awesome. They just feel natural and provide a good change of pace and look.

The Mediocre
1. Graphics are alright at best. Environments, especially backgrounds don't look very good, lighting is above average. Car models are okay, but don't compare to say Dirt 2 in DX11 mode. Texture detail is pretty decent on the environments and trees do not look very convincing (Simbin/SMS would benefit from licensing some Speedtree for this game).

2. Vaughn Gittin Jr. talks way too much, it's sort of like Dirt 2 in a way, repeating himself way too much. I can't count how many time's he's told me to attack the first corner.

3. The helmet view is very pretty. It would be great for replays, but I cannot use it at all for racing. It's not really the motion that is disorienting as much as it is the low field of view with it on. It's a good try and may work better on large TVs, but on my 17.3" laptop screen, it's just too much.

4. Autolog seems cool, but I don't have any friends that both game on the PC and want to play a non arcade racing game so I haven't really tried it out.

The Bad
1. The artificial intelligence has a heavy emphasis on artificial, this is going to be a 3 part answer.

*Firstly, god damned rubber-band effect. I don't know who thought of it way back in the day of racing games, but there is a special place in hell for someone like that. It's an AI system that punishes a player for doing well and rewards a player for playing poorly. Did you just pull off 2 perfect laps back to back? Uh oh, the split time means that whoever is behind you and in front of you will now speed up to compensate.

I remember using an Audi R8 with many upgrades to have a 999 rating C car, the highest possible for Class C. I then remember running a race 5 times because I would claw up to 2nd place and then chase the same opponent R8 that magically could out accelerate and out turn me. I only eventually won because the AI is not very consistent.

* Secondly, about that consistency. Drivers will be faster or slower depending on the race and even the lap. I've seen 3-4 second differences in times running the same race with the same cars on the same track. If you do poorly on a race, you can just restart it until you find whatever random number generator spawns all your opponents to be extra slow this race. Also, it still adjusts to your skill level.

For example,
Lap 1 you run a 1:52.1
Lap 2 you run a 1:42.5
Lap 3 you run a 1:45
Lap 4 you run a 1:42.8

On lap 1 you'll always launch pretty quickly and accelerate well (at least I do since I upgrade my cars to exactly the top of their class). You brake late and get into a turn taking a very aggressive line and then you advance from 5th to 2nd. 2nd lap you pull it off perfectly and get to 1st place putting a 2-4 second lead on 2nd place. Then lap 3 comes around and you run a decent lap but not a perfect one and 1st place shoots past you going way faster than they had shown potential for just 1 lap ago so that even in a perfect corner you aren't able to catch up, much less pass them (And forget about out accelerating them on a straight, if your car does 3.3 second 0-60 their car does 3.2 when they're on the rubber band boost). Then the last lap comes around and the AI oftentimes seems to get a speed boost on the last lap, setting another record fastest lap while you fall further behind even if you drove perfectly.

It's extremely frustrating. Whatever happened to normal AI?

* Thirdly they are aggressive as hell. If you and the AI are on the same corner but the AI tries to pass and does it incorrectly, going into the grass, you can bet your ass they are going to turn in and get back on the track at all costs even if you still inhabit that section of the track they need to get to, ramming you out of the way. Pull an Aryton Senna and brake late, diving into the inside line of an opponent by out-braking him and you can bet your ass that the AI will ram you out of the way to move into that inside line anyways.

2. Then there's the crash physics. AI cars don't suffer nearly as much from hitting you as you do hitting them. Lightly tap an AI opponent and you lose all car control for as long as you are touching them. AI slams into you and they drive on their merry way after a very short recovery period 9fractions of a second) while spinning you into a tree. It feels like everything in this game is made of iron and your car is a freaking super magnet. God forbid the aggressive AI side swipes you in a corner because you're going to be stuck to that AI for a while since you've lost all control. If the AI hits you into parallel into a wall, expect to rid the wall for a bit and on some tracks even get stuck to the wall requiring quite a bit of steering lock to get away from it.

The Ugly
1. The controls are abhorrent. It feels like you're telling the gamepad to tell the driver in the car to turn the wheel instead of having direct control over the car. At default, control is absolutely non linear. Move your stick 1-10 degrees left, watch the car slowly drift left at minutes of arc per second if that. Move your stick 15 degrees left or more and watch your car take a full lock turn quickly speeding off the track.

For the Xbox 360 controller, I found this to work well:
[edited for a better setup]
Steering Dead Zone: 3
Steering Sensitivity: 57
Throttle Dead Zone: 6,
Throttle Sensitivity: 67
Braking Dead Zone: 6
Braking Sensitivity: 67
Speed Steering Sensitivity: 27

There's still a little bit of speed sensitivity issues but I'll keep working on it. Imagine a constant radius corner where speed determines steering ratio so as you slow down, the car stops holding the line you set and starts turning ever more sharply.

Car tuning: Set as desired but recommend extra tuning for understeer. These cars love to oversteer everywhere.

a setting of 50 is supposedly perfectly linear according to the devs and it does feel much better, but it's still not perfect. I'll perfect it later.

2. The keys on the windows version do not change with a gamepad plugged in like it does with every other game. Title screen still says press Enter to continue as well as other screens listing keys like U,I,Backspace and a weird looking square up arrow that I later figured out was shift (not any shift mind you, that would make too much sense, right shift only).

As a rule of thumb:
A:Enter
B:Backspace
X:R
Y:F
Right Shoulder:K
Left Shoulder:J
Right Trigger:I
Left Trigger:U
Start:Right Shift
Back:Autolog



Overall It's a nicely presently game with adequate multi-platform graphics that is marred by dodgy AI and poor controls. It's not all bad, but it is a hell of a lot harder than it should be. It's got some good ideas and does improve on the predecessor, but like Shift has a couple fatal flaws that needs some patching. 7.75/10 (Fairly decent but not wow-ing me)

Verdict:
Buy
Wait
Sell

All screenshots are taken at maximum settings and AA. Tip: turn off motion blur or put it on low, IMO it looks pretty terrible with it on as can be seen in these screens.




 
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dualsmp

Golden Member
Aug 16, 2003
1,627
45
91
The steering is the worst of any racing game I've ever tried. I found it impossible to steer with the keyboard, and I had to fire up Grid just to make sure I wasn't going crazy.

If anyone has any adjustments they've found work with the keyboard I'm all ears.
 

mwmorph

Diamond Member
Dec 27, 2004
8,877
1
81
The steering is the worst of any racing game I've ever tried. I found it impossible to steer with the keyboard, and I had to fire up Grid just to make sure I wasn't going crazy.

If anyone has any adjustments they've found work with the keyboard I'm all ears.

I found this solution for you in NFSunlimited.com
http://forum.nfsunlimited.net/viewtopic.php?f=140&t=17872

Keyboard Steering Solution
by Narler » 10 Nov 2009, 05:40

Howdy,

Just thought I'd post the solution to fix keyboard steering in Need for Speed Shift.

Unfortunately the in-game configuration is quite useless because most of the keys can't be reconfigured.. a good example of this is the keypad keys are by default bound to free look while in cockpit or chase views and there's no option to reconfigure them for people that use keypad arrows for car control. Secondly if you use the default mouse/keyboard then you can't rebind the key for selective gear change OR for clutch. ?.. that's just stupid. you have to choose another config option such as User Pad and then on the binding list you can configure these keys..

However for the steering, I to simply use keyboard and this game is literally unplayable unless you like going every where side ways. so after looking around the game install files, I decided to start doing some editing and testing and bingo the solution is quite easy to achieve. Using the default Mouse/Keyboard config setting.

First up, go find the following path

<game-install-directory>\ControllerDefaults\PC\

I suggest you take a copy of the original file first, so if you stuff up then you can always restore it.

open the following file in notepad vehicleset_pc_mousekeyboard.xml

and edit the following values. (there are more values in that file, but simply locate these and change them to the values listed here)
CODE: SELECT ALL
SpeedSensitiveSteering="1.350000"
DampeningTimeCentreToLock="0.000000"
DampeningTimeLockToCentre="0.000000"
DampeningTimeOppositeLockToCentre="0.000000"
DigitalRampRateSteering="0.500000"
TurnSensitivity="1.400000"
AlternateSpeedSensitiveSteering="1.350000" />


So quick recap of those. increase speed sensitivity by 35%, set speed to instant for reaching steering lock and returning to center. (this stops that strange 1/5 second delay) increased the digital ramp rate, increased the turn sensitivity and finally increased by 35% the speed sensitivity, so now the car won't constantly fish tail if you just blow on the turn keys while on fast straights.

Save the file, load the game, go into config, select some other controller (it alerts you your config will be lost, that's ok.). now reselect mouse/keyboard, re-setup your keys and go test it with a race.. I use the time attack so i can see how much improvement I get per lap compared to the previous key config, and so far my lap times have improved by 4 seconds (playing on realistic settings (we as realistic as this game allows)) and can now easily get maximum stars in any time attack race.( eg beat the fastest times)

I do prefer a car that is a bit loose (oversteer), so the above configuration settings may not be for everyones liking, so simply adjust those values until you find one that suits your driving style.

warning if you go into config screen now and look at the settings, you'll see there maybe some listed with no value, that's because we've adjusted their value beyond what the game allows to be display (ie 1.35 is 135% and the in game config screen only allows up to 100%), so don't make any changes there.

Atleast you'll now be able to enjoy the game without having the hassle of wheels and other devices cluttering up your desk.
 

Farmer

Diamond Member
Dec 23, 2003
3,334
2
81
mwmorph:

Great review. I would say I agree with you almost entirely, except for the fact that I find the helmet cam playable.

I absolutely agree on control, playable, but totally nonlinear. Often times I find myself undercorrecting or overcorrecting. Nonlinear response is ok at the boundaries of the analog stick travel, but the middle portion needs to be linear. I wish I could insert the control feel from Forza into this game. Compared with Shift 1 and Forza, the gamepad "feel" is also more numb, just like you said, more disconnected from what is happening to your in-game car. Additional force feedback might help, I don't know, but it's hard to gauge when you are losing grip.

As for graphics, I don't see any improvement over Shift 1. I was hoping for a much sharper looking game.

Also, there was some discussion about real-time telemetry in this game? I don't see it anywhere.

I installed a few handling mods to alleviate the massive lack of grip in everything, I don't know if that is contributing to the "numbness."

I would not even bother trying to play this game with keyboard. It's "sim" enough that it needs analog controls.
 
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God Mode

Platinum Member
Jul 2, 2005
2,903
0
71
I hate this game using a 360 pad. It sucks as a fun racer and it sucks as a sim. :(
 

destrekor

Lifer
Nov 18, 2005
28,799
359
126
If you are using the wheel, the game has an underlying engine that is simply amazing for a multi-platform sim.
It requires getting your fingers a little dirty though.

If you are on PC, there are a few minimods that change some underlying variables that help make the game feel a little closer to that of a simulation title.

Most importantly, you absolutely HAVE TO enter the Tuning section. The default ride setups are junk, absolutely shitty. You change those, the game is going to feel almost 100&#37; different.

This game is still no iRacing or other hardcore sim, but it's an entertaining racing title that absolutely blows everything else away in terms of visuals and overall experience. Speed feels like mindblowing speed, nighttime is terrifying, and once customized it bit, it's entertaining and to me, feels like a Forza or GT.
 

Lonyo

Lifer
Aug 10, 2002
21,938
6
81
mwmorph:

Great review. I would say I agree with you almost entirely, except for the fact that I find the helmet cam playable.

I absolutely agree on control, playable, but totally nonlinear. Often times I find myself undercorrecting or overcorrecting. Nonlinear response is ok at the boundaries of the analog stick travel, but the middle portion needs to be linear. I wish I could insert the control feel from Forza into this game. Compared with Shift 1 and Forza, the gamepad "feel" is also more numb, just like you said, more disconnected from what is happening to your in-game car. Additional force feedback might help, I don't know, but it's hard to gauge when you are losing grip.

As for graphics, I don't see any improvement over Shift 1. I was hoping for a much sharper looking game.

Also, there was some discussion about real-time telemetry in this game? I don't see it anywhere.

I installed a few handling mods to alleviate the massive lack of grip in everything, I don't know if that is contributing to the "numbness."

I would not even bother trying to play this game with keyboard. It's "sim" enough that it needs analog controls.
My problem with the helmet cam is the fixed look to apex.
In Race you can adjust the level of look to apex, but in NFS Shift it just feels like the view is all over the place and it's difficult to know where you are going and becomes distracting.
Having an adjustment level for helmet cam would be really nice.