Sheriffs' request for pain pill records ignites privacy debate

waggy

No Lifer
Dec 14, 2000
68,143
10
81
news14

CHARLOTTE -- Sheriff's offices across North Carolina say they want access to records that identify people with prescriptions for powerful painkillers. They say the access can help them fight the growing problem of prescription drug abuse but others say it's a violation of privacy.

Brad Keller was run over by a car 15 years ago. The accident crushed all the nerves in his left foot and left him with a condition called reflex sympathetic dystrophy, or RSD.

In order to simply function, Keller was placed on a variety of medications from percocet to oxycodone. He took the drugs for 14 years, until he said he had had enough.

Keller is now virtually pain free because his condition made him a good candidate for a spinal cord stimulator. But he's still fighting for the thousands of Americans who suffer everyday.

"The people who take this medication don't take it because they want to; they take it because they have to," Keller said.

Keller is now a volunteer advocate for the American Pain Foundation. His newest battle is on the homefront.

On Tuesday, the North Carolina Sheriff's Association went to a legislative health committee asking for access to state computer records that ID people with prescriptions for certain drugs.

Association president Sam Page said it will help them combat a growing problem.

"We take that information, we could go and check against that database and see if that person, in fact, appears to be doctor shopping and obtaining prescriptions for the purpose of resell, which is illegal," he said.

While well intended, Keller feels this move violates a person's right to privacy.

"You're talking about accessing my private records for what purpose? You certainly aren't medical professionals," he said.

At this time, Page says the proposal is just that and hopes it will start a dialogue on how to better assist law enforcement in finding the criminals abusing the system.

In response to the proposal, William Bronson with the state Department of Health and Human Services, is offering a compromise. He suggests the state allow drug investigators to request information from the database related to a specific investigation.

Currently, investigators with the SBI use a similar process.


WHAT!? i don't see how the police can even think they can get away with looking at the records without a warrent? this is insane. As it is many doctors are cutting back pain meds so they don't' get in trouble. this is just going to lead to more people that actually need them to not get them. AHH fuck it annoys the crap out of me.
 

destrekor

Lifer
Nov 18, 2005
28,799
359
126
Aw hell no.

The State has no need to be able to see medical information, unless necessary on a per-case basis through a warrant.
 

Jeeebus

Diamond Member
Aug 29, 2006
9,181
901
126
Prescription drug abuse is a huge problem, but they're not going to solve it this way.

Down here, we've got a bunch of these fly-by-night pain clinics run by quacks that will gladly write a prescription for just about anything (and fill it while you wait). Because of some loophole somewhere in the law, cops are powerless to really do anything.
 

classy

Lifer
Oct 12, 1999
15,219
1
81
LOL
They have zero shot. Even those who work at hospitals and have access to people's medical records, better not even consider looking at them unless they have a direct patient care reason. Its a foolish and wasteful time of the courts with this. As so one already posted, hipaa
 

Bignate603

Lifer
Sep 5, 2000
13,897
1
0
While I believe that this is completely crazy, they do need to figure out something.

My wife is recovering from minor surgery and the doctor gave her a prescription for Vicodin. I was surprised that I could walk into the pharmacy and get a prescription for a pain killer like that for a prescription in someone else's name without even showing ID.
 

waggy

No Lifer
Dec 14, 2000
68,143
10
81
found the article and video I was thinking about.

Brother-in-law is interviewed in the video - the area of Broward he patrols is riddled with these pain clinics.

http://www.wate.com/global/story.asp?s=12457092

a big reason for shit like this is that some states are cracking down on pain clinics and trying to impose strict guidlines on how many and how much nacartics they can prescribe. The amount is low. in some areas its less then a pill a day. even for people with some of the most painful forms of cancer

so many people have to resort to illegal measures to get the help they need. Some are even cutting back nacartics for ALL.

its really a sad state of affairs when in the "war on drugs" people in pain are getting nailed
 

Phoenix86

Lifer
May 21, 2003
14,644
10
81
LOL
They have zero shot. Even those who work at hospitals and have access to people's medical records, better not even consider looking at them unless they have a direct patient care reason. Its a foolish and wasteful time of the courts with this. As so one already posted, hipaa
Yep, I have access to many, many, many medical records. If I access any of them w/o a justifiable reason they would walk my ass out the door in a heartbeat.

Jeeebus, there's a ton of those clinics down in Houston. I know people who made "day trips" down there just to see the doc who would prescribe anything because their normal doc here wouldn't.
 

dfuze

Lifer
Feb 15, 2006
11,953
0
71
Aw hell no.

The State has no need to be able to see medical information, unless necessary on a per-case basis through a warrant.

This. Until they need a reason to see my medical records they don't need to go in them. Open it up to them and then others will start wanting access too.
 

ShawnD1

Lifer
May 24, 2003
15,987
2
81
The easy solution is to subpooena insurance companies to see which policy holders get the most oxy pills ;)
 

Modelworks

Lifer
Feb 22, 2007
16,240
7
76
I thought there were already policies in place with pharmacies that track controlled substances . I know that some of the chains do this, so you can't go for example to multiple walgreens and get the same prescription. Maybe a voluntary linking between chains where only an anonymous ID# would be shared, so users can be flagged would be better and keep the government out of it. It is already annoying to get controlled substances filled. They cannot be called in or faxed, the pharmacy has to have the doctors original and only a 30 day supply, no refills allowed.
 

Modelworks

Lifer
Feb 22, 2007
16,240
7
76
While I believe that this is completely crazy, they do need to figure out something.

My wife is recovering from minor surgery and the doctor gave her a prescription for Vicodin. I was surprised that I could walk into the pharmacy and get a prescription for a pain killer like that for a prescription in someone else's name without even showing ID.


If I want to buy sudafed with the pseudo-ephedrine I have to show an ID and it is over the counter. But I can fill a prescription for Oxycontin with no id.
 

SlowSpyder

Lifer
Jan 12, 2005
17,305
1,002
126
Prescription drug abuse is a huge problem, but they're not going to solve it this way.

Down here, we've got a bunch of these fly-by-night pain clinics run by quacks that will gladly write a prescription for just about anything (and fill it while you wait). Because of some loophole somewhere in the law, cops are powerless to really do anything.

I saw a show called "The Oxycontin Express" a while back that talked about pain clinics in Florida. It said the top 50 prescribers of oxycodone in the country are all in FL. I guess FL is one of the few (only?) states that the doctor can have a pharmacy in his/her office that dispenses the medication they prescribe. Basically they have a financial incentive to give the patient whatever it is that they want because then they get to fill the script in the office as well. Many of the pain clinics down there are cash-only and are little more than legal drug dealers.

The show was actually given that name because some smaller charter pilots from other southern states actually created same day round trip specials to get people down to FL and back so that they can get their scripts.
 

highland145

Lifer
Oct 12, 2009
43,973
6,340
136
If I want to buy sudafed with the pseudo-ephedrine I have to show an ID and it is over the counter. But I can fill a prescription for Oxycontin with no id.
There was a story some months back where the woman was arrested for a felony(?) because she bought otc sudafed 3 days in a row. Once for the hubby, the daughter and herself. Prosecutor said tough sh*t she should know the law.
 

Number1

Diamond Member
Feb 24, 2006
7,881
549
126
I thought there were already policies in place with pharmacies that track controlled substances . I know that some of the chains do this, so you can't go for example to multiple walgreens and get the same prescription. Maybe a voluntary linking between chains where only an anonymous ID# would be shared, so users can be flagged would be better and keep the government out of it. It is already annoying to get controlled substances filled. They cannot be called in or faxed, the pharmacy has to have the doctors original and only a 30 day supply, no refills allowed.

What you are proposing is a good idea. The government has no business in anybody's medical record, that's for sure.
 

ShawnD1

Lifer
May 24, 2003
15,987
2
81
If I want to buy sudafed with the pseudo-ephedrine I have to show an ID and it is over the counter. But I can fill a prescription for Oxycontin with no id.

Amerikkka! That's so weird. I get a stuffed nose damn near every day and I buy literally hundreds of dollars worth of ephedrine at one time. Ephedrine is not controlled in Canada.
 

Modelworks

Lifer
Feb 22, 2007
16,240
7
76

Agreed.
Francis Harrison talked about the laws on illegal drugs a few years ago and how it became something it was never intended to be and what a mistake it was. He said he never would have written it had he known the result.

It was a law in 1914 where the IRS wanted to tax all narcotics as a new source of income. It had rules that doctors had to keep track of all drugs for tax reasons and if they didn't do it then that was breaking the law. Prosecutors used that to arrest doctors on the idea that if you didn't have paperwork for drugs and you were distributing them that the drug itself was illegal because it wasn't taxed . Doctors quit prescribing the taxed drugs so they would not be arrested. The people hooked on the drugs then went to wherever they could get them and so began the drug dealer trade.

It was never about protecting the public, but instead getting money from taxes .

You can read the whole thing here:
http://www.erowid.org/psychoactives/law/law_fed_harrison_narcotics_act.shtml

That it shall be unlawful for any person to sell, barter, exchange, or give away any of the aforesaid drugs except in pursuance of a written order of the person to whom such article is sold, bartered, exchanged, or given, on a form to be issued in blank for that purpose by the Commissioner of Internal Revenue. Every person who shall accept any such order, and in pursuance thereof shall sell, barter, exchange, or give away any of the aforesaid drugs shall preserve such order for a period of two years in such a way as to be readily accessible to inspection by any officer, agent, or employee of the Treasury Department duly authorized for that purpose, and the State, Territorial, district, municipal and insular officials named in Section five of this Act. Every person who shall give an order as herein provided to any other person for any of the aforesaid drugs shall, at or before the time of giving of such order, make or cause to be made, a duplicate thereof on a form to be issued in blank for that purpose by the Commissioner of Internal Revenue, and in the case of the acceptance of such order , shall preserve such duplicate for said period of two years in such a way as to be readily accessible to inspection by the officers, agents, employees, and officials herein mentioned. Nothing contained in this section shall apply -

(a) To the dispensing or distribution of any of the aforesaid drugs to a patient by a physician, dentist, or veterinary surgeon registered under this Act in the course of his professional practice only: Provided, That such physician, dentist, or veterinary surgeon shall keep a record of all such drugs dispensed or distributed, showing the amount dispensed or distributed, the date, and the name and address of the person to whom such drugs are dispensed or distributed; except such as may be dispensed or distributed to a patient upon whom such physician, dentist, or veterinary surgeon shall personally attend; and such record shall be kept for a period of two years from the date of dispensing or distributing such drugs, subject to inspection, as provided in this Act.
 

SlowSpyder

Lifer
Jan 12, 2005
17,305
1,002
126
Amerikkka! That's so weird. I get a stuffed nose damn near every day and I buy literally hundreds of dollars worth of ephedrine at one time. Ephedrine is not controlled in Canada.

It's not a controlled substance in a prescription-required type of way, but it is kept behind the pharmacy counter. Here we have to sign when we buy it for tracking purposes.
 

TheVrolok

Lifer
Dec 11, 2000
24,254
4,092
136
Aw hell no.

The State has no need to be able to see medical information, unless necessary on a per-case basis through a warrant.

This.

found the article and video I was thinking about.

Brother-in-law is interviewed in the video - the area of Broward he patrols is riddled with these pain clinics.

http://www.wate.com/global/story.asp?s=12457092

Broward and Miami-Dade are nationally recognized as some of the most (if not the most) prescription drug abused areas in the country. The FBI are all over here investigating fraud. Mmm.. South Florida, it's a fun place to visit (for a few years), but I have no plans to stay. :p
 

sdifox

No Lifer
Sep 30, 2005
101,153
18,197
126
My feeling is that this should be controlled by doctors and pharmacists. Centralised network of prescription history. Make patient aware when the doc writes the scrib for oxycondon or something like that their prescription record will be checked. That should cut down on abuse.