Sheriff David Clarke Jr. has resigned.

[shortylickens]

I like your posts, moonbean. Keep being smart.

Cant tell if super serious or super sarcastic.

 

[zinfamous]

Cant tell if super serious or super sarcastic.

good (<serious)

 

[Moonbeam]

I like your posts, moonbean. Keep being smart.

Thank you. If there is anything smart in what I say I likely learned it from others.

 

[pmv]

You see the world in terms of the assumptions you make. You make the false assumption that conservatives pick the worst people because they know they are the worst people when in fact they pick what they think are the best people, but are not because the moral values they think are good in those people actually aren't good at all. You have no tolerance for the fact that people are trying to do what they think is good but can't because their moral evaluation system was ruined when they were children. The reason why you will not do that is simple. You do the same thing. You constantly evaluate people who are not intentionally evil as if they were because your moral evaluation system got fucked up. Every time you judge you condemn yourself. By your rules you are evil. Have you the courage to admit to it?

Conservatives pick the people they do because they think those people's actions will benefit them. Different people in different circumstances with different histories have different self-interests, and will end up in opposition to each other, that's called 'politics'. History and economics puts people in different camps, whether they like it or not, unfortunately. I don't see in general that it's really essential to invoke the concept of 'evil'. I feel you make it too much about some alleged code of 'morality' that exists outside of society.

The only complication - and where I maybe differ from agent somewhat - is that I think people's self-interests aren't necessarily exclusively about objective material things and can include more subjective factors like beliefs about social status and identity. Those things can potentially change. Even the more material objective things can possibly change if circumstances do, but that's even more difficult to achieve. That's where I don't agree with agent's complete hostility to jhhhn. I'm not convinced the Trump 'coalition' can never be fractured.

Though the trouble is, the longer Trump's supporters continue to back him no matter how appalling he reveals himself to be, the more I think agent might be right. I find it hard enough to work out how race and class interact in the UK, never mind in the US, so I don't feel entitled to take a side, but I just can't see Jhhhn as some sort of enemy.

In addition I feel you individualise and psychologise it all too much with the emphasis on "childhood experiences". Group identities and self-interests go back way further than any individual's childhood, they are a product of centuries of history. You aren't going to resolve real political differences with psychotherapy.

 

[Moonbeam]

Conservatives pick the people they do because they think those people's actions will benefit them. Different people in different circumstances with different histories have different self-interests, and will end up in opposition to each other, that's called 'politics'. History and economics puts people in different camps, whether they like it or not, unfortunately. I don't see in general that it's really essential to invoke the concept of 'evil'. I feel you make it too much about some alleged code of 'morality' that exists outside of society.

The only complication - and where I maybe differ from agent somewhat - is that I think people's self-interests aren't necessarily exclusively about objective material things and can include more subjective factors like beliefs about social status and identity. Those things can potentially change. Even the more material objective things can possibly change if circumstances do, but that's even more difficult to achieve. That's where I don't agree with agent's complete hostility to jhhhn. I'm not convinced the Trump 'coalition' can never be fractured.

Though the trouble is, the longer Trump's supporters continue to back him no matter how appalling he reveals himself to be, the more I think agent might be right. I find it hard enough to work out how race and class interact in the UK, never mind in the US, so I don't feel entitled to take a side, but I just can't see Jhhhn as some sort of enemy.

In addition I feel you individualise and psychologise it all too much with the emphasis on "childhood experiences". Group identities and self-interests go back way further than any individual's childhood, they are a product of centuries of history. You aren't going to resolve real political differences with psychotherapy.

I think you make a very valid, very logical, and very objectively analytical case for how the world works when viewed without the benefit of the notion of psychological motivation as derived from introspective self analysis. You are describing how people are who see the world dualistically, how they act, how they group why the vote as they do. This is how people motivated by ego act, what they do etc.

Your viewpoint for me is well expressed and paints the reality of people I would call sick. It is a description of the Matrix without seeing the code on which it is based, a competition and struggle to survive of different autonomous programs.

If you look deeper, if you look at yourself, if you can see how your own program motivates you, I believe you will be looking at the actual code and no longer be subject to its rules. The duality of opposite resolve at a higher level of understanding as opposite sides of one thing. We are all the same and we all have the same interest. When love awakens the self disappears. There is nowhere to go, nothing to achieve, no political gains to be made. There is only the world of madness and the world of perfection. There is only one thing required to see this and it is to awaken. That happens not by achieving something but by letting go. Sweet surrender.............. It's a nice song.

 

[pmv]

I think you make a very valid, very logical, and very objectively analytical case for how the world works when viewed without the benefit of the notion of psychological motivation as derived from introspective self analysis. You are describing how people are who see the world dualistically, how they act, how they group why the vote as they do. This is how people motivated by ego act, what they do etc.

Your viewpoint for me is well expressed and paints the reality of people I would call sick. It is a description of the Matrix without seeing the code on which it is based, a competition and struggle to survive of different autonomous programs.

If you look deeper, if you look at yourself, if you can see how your own program motivates you, I believe you will be looking at the actual code and no longer be subject to its rules. The duality of opposite resolve at a higher level of understanding as opposite sides of one thing. We are all the same and we all have the same interest. When love awakens the self disappears. There is nowhere to go, nothing to achieve, no political gains to be made. There is only the world of madness and the world of perfection. There is only one thing required to see this and it is to awaken. That happens not by achieving something but by letting go. Sweet surrender.............. It's a nice song.

I just think perhaps you need to look at the world beyond yourself a little more. And maybe assume a little less about how much introspection tells you about others and their experiences. But I don't think you are a bad guy. (Generally mystics only go bad once they acquire a few followers.)

 

[agent00f]

All I've said is that your moral philosophy is the equivalent to racism and that the application of your morality would make racism worse not better. Naturally, if your moral philosophy has any valid real world application, you are perfectly aware that you want to be evil and are aware of the personal advantages of being evil are for you. You really can't comprehend that to judge others is to condemn yourself. You may be able to read and you may be able to think, but you have no idea what you feel.

If religious zealotry ever worked then force of law a la denazification or civil rights or force per se a la ww2/civil war wouldn't be necessary. It also doesn't help you case that you don't actually know any moral philosophy.

 

[Moonbeam]

I just think perhaps you need to look at the world beyond yourself a little more. And maybe assume a little less about how much introspection tells you about others and their experiences. But I don't think you are a bad guy. (Generally mystics only go bad once they acquire a few followers.)

 

[Moonbeam]

I just think perhaps you need to look at the world beyond yourself a little more. And maybe assume a little less about how much introspection tells you about others and their experiences. But I don't think you are a bad guy. (Generally mystics only go bad once they acquire a few followers.)

I understand your point of view. From a mystic's point of view, however, mystic is a word that is used by those to describe how truth is confusing to them. Can you see that from my point of view it is you who has the assumptions about what self knowledge can reveal? I would claim you have to actually have it before you can make that claim. You probably have heard mystics claim that in a grain of sand the universe is contained. The problem with mysticism is that it is based on a conscious state that can't be given to those who have not experienced it. All they can do is point with the proviso that the finger pointing at the moon is not the moon. There can be no actual debate because we are not talking about something words alone can deliver. I point as best I can. I am not a qualified teacher. That requires experiences I have not had. I am a nobody.

 

[Moonbeam]

If religious zealotry ever worked then force of law a la denazification or civil rights or force per se a la ww2/civil war wouldn't be necessary. It also doesn't help you case that you don't actually know any moral philosophy.

As I have told you over and over again, when the mentally ill violate the rights of others via actions, they must be and deserve to be stopped. One can destroy such evil mercilessly and without compromise without feeling the slightest hate. In this way the only focus of attention is the least violent way to end the threat. The mind driven by purpose is far more effective than the mind driven by hate and fear.

 

[agent00f]

As I have told you over and over again, when the mentally ill violate the rights of others via actions, they must be and deserve to be stopped. One can destroy such evil mercilessly and without compromise without feeling the slightest hate. In this way the only focus of attention is the least violent way to end the threat. The mind driven by purpose is far more effective than the mind driven by hate and fear.

Your new degen "merely thought crime" conversion prospects have a purpose. It's the one you've been desperately trying to cover for in hopes of exchange for their allegiance.

 

[Balt]

Didn't read through the thread, so apologies if I'm repeating things, but:

1) Doubt Clarke will get appointed to any position that requires Senate confirmation.
2) Doubt Kelly would approve of Trump appointing Clarke to an 'advisor' position in the WH, but Trump may do it anyway. This will result in more conflict in the WH. If Kelly resigns as WH Chief of Staff, this administration is finished completely. The only thing holding it together is former military (i.e. Kelly and Mattis) and the 'deep state' that Trump hates so much.
3) Clarke belongs in prison. For (among other things) letting a prisoner die in his jail from lack of water.
4) Clarke may not believe a federal pardon from Trump will keep him from being convicted on state charges, and may have struck some kind of deal to avoid state charges that involved him resigning.

Just speculating here. I am not a lawyer.

 

[Moonbeam]

Your new degen "merely thought crime" conversion prospects have a purpose. It's the one you've been desperately trying to cover for in hopes of exchange for their allegiance.

Please, no piss ant juice on my shoes.

 

[pmv]

I understand your point of view. From a mystic's point of view, however, mystic is a word that is used by those to describe how truth is confusing to them. Can you see that from my point of view it is you who has the assumptions about what self knowledge can reveal? I would claim you have to actually have it before you can make that claim. You probably have heard mystics claim that in a grain of sand the universe is contained. The problem with mysticism is that it is based on a conscious state that can't be given to those who have not experienced it. All they can do is point with the proviso that the finger pointing at the moon is not the moon. There can be no actual debate because we are not talking about something words alone can deliver. I point as best I can. I am not a qualified teacher. That requires experiences I have not had. I am a nobody.

You sure produce a lot of words for a nobody! Anyway, if you have the luxury to give all that energy and time to self-examination, that's fine, but just maybe try to accept that not everyone is in the same situation as you?
The problem with mysticism, in my direct experience, is that it tends to lead to abuse (usually of a sexual form) and corruption. But as long as you haven't managed to build yourself a cult (and you don't strike me as the type who could manage that), then the worst you are going to do is fail to improve the world for others - which makes you no better or worse than 90% of us, so, hey, whatever gets you through the day.

 

[Moonbeam]

You sure produce a lot of words for a nobody! Anyway, if you have the luxury to give all that energy and time to self-examination, that's fine, but just maybe try to accept that not everyone is in the same situation as you?
The problem with mysticism, in my direct experience, is that it tends to lead to abuse (usually of a sexual form) and corruption. But as long as you haven't managed to build yourself a cult (and you don't strike me as the type who could manage that), then the worst you are going to do is fail to improve the world for others - which makes you no better or worse than 90% of us, so, hey, whatever gets you through the day.

The thing about being a nobody is that you are almost guaranteed an infinite supply of words evert time you engage with people ho don't know anything either but think they do. They supply you with an endless series of assumptions that supple endless words to explain how all of it is wrong. Your whole post was full of things you think you know are true. Knowing for a mystic is knowing you don't know anything. You arrive at such such a condition by paying. The cost is everything you ever acquired and held dear. To be a mystic only costs you evething you hold sacred. The mystic term for what you have to pay 1000 tons of cabbage. I think the concept is organically revealed in terms like "lighten up".

 

[pmv]

The thing about being a nobody is that you are almost guaranteed an infinite supply of words evert time you engage with people ho don't know anything either but think they do. They supply you with an endless series of assumptions that supple endless words to explain how all of it is wrong. Your whole post was full of things you think you know are true. Knowing for a mystic is knowing you don't know anything. You arrive at such such a condition by paying. The cost is everything you ever acquired and held dear. To be a mystic only costs you evething you hold sacred. The mystic term for what you have to pay 1000 tons of cabbage. I think the concept is organically revealed in terms like "lighten up".

It's funny how you intersperse declaring that you don't know anything, with repeated claims to know things (including things about others).
Nice final line (though I suspect it's not original).

But carry on seeking followers and massively overestimating what you know. As long as you don't vote for Republicans you're doing less harm than many of your countrymen.

Edit - hey, you don't appear to have lost 'everything you have ever acquired' because you still apparently have internet access!

 

[jmagg]

Severe trauma brings on revelation. Look at the man in the mirror.

 

[brycejones]

Trump sure does love the authoritarians with no regard for basic civil rights and constitutional law. Tell me again how much of a dictator Obama was.

Obama was an evil dictator he even put his wife in charge of improving the nutritional value of school lunches. Which was an idea that is just beyond the pale.

 

[Moonbeam]

It's funny how you intersperse declaring that you don't know anything, with repeated claims to know things (including things about others).
Nice final line (though I suspect it's not original).

But carry on seeking followers and massively overestimating what you know. As long as you don't vote for Republicans you're doing less harm than many of your countrymen.

Edit - hey, you don't appear to have lost 'everything you have ever acquired' because you still apparently have internet access!

I sense an investment in what you believe and some resentment at the thought of letting go of it. I don't sense humility or the recognition of the need for it. Nobody can remove your armor if you are unwilling to risk exposure. You are safe. Nobody can force you to awaken. Go in peace.

 

[agent00f]

Please, no piss ant juice on my shoes.

You seem under the notion that trite mysticism has value beyond political rationalization. Eg:

The thing about being a nobody is that you are almost guaranteed an infinite supply of words evert time you engage with people ho don't know anything either but think they do. They supply you with an endless series of assumptions that supple endless words to explain how all of it is wrong. Your whole post was full of things you think you know are true. Knowing for a mystic is knowing you don't know anything. You arrive at such such a condition by paying. The cost is everything you ever acquired and held dear. To be a mystic only costs you evething you hold sacred. The mystic term for what you have to pay 1000 tons of cabbage. I think the concept is organically revealed in terms like "lighten up".

You sort have been repeating this tripe to entice followers since before the recent rapid advance in human knowledge and will of course persist despite zero contribution to it.