SharpImage's Ionic Breeze. How does it work and can we use this technology for fanless heatsink?

[hoihtah]

hi all... i believe this is my first post at highly technical forum.
if this doesn't belong here... i'd be glad to remove it.

anyhow... my friend just bought an ionic breeze.
at first, i was quite skeptical of this filter... but it seems to work quite well.
i was quite surprised by the amount of air that it was moving... all without a fan of some sort.

i dont' quite understand the concept behind how this air flow is being caused.
but couldn't we use this technology to create a fanless heatsink?
that would definately quiet things down at my house.

and i would like one of these myself... but i'm not willing to spend 2-300 for one.
if someone can explain to me the concept of this filter...
i would like to attempt at building one myself.

thanx.

 

[patri26281]

 

[patri26281]

ooppsss....sorry for the last post, hit enter too soon.

Well, I would think the Ionic Breeze works off the same principle as Deep Space 1's ion engines. First you have two different electrodes of different charges. The first one strippes the air particles of their electrons, the the second electrodes of the opposite charge forces the ionized air at great speeds.

A couple of years back, well alot of year back ( fewdecades maybe), there were experiments that were done to see if this method of propulsion can be used to propel airplanes. But it was later found that the power requirements were too high for any size of craft. I believe they used wiremeshes to act as those electrodes. And I think I've seen ion blowers to cool computer before, just don't remember where. Hope this helps.

 

[GoodRevrnd]

I think they still are looking into ionized particles for propulsion. I remember reading about 3 years ago JPL had some lil probe or something that propelled itself in this way.

 

[dkozloski]

The fanless ioin filters are right up there with duck butter, snake oil, mototr oil additives and the psychic hotlines. They just barely work enough that the perpatrators have been lucky so far in avoiding jail terms.

 

[CDigs]

The concept is simple as I understand it.

One side of the filter, the "intake", ionizes the air with a positive or negative charge.

The other side of the filter, the "exhaust", has several plates with the opposite charge of the "intake".

So say the intake gives the air a positive charge, then the plates near the exhaust would have a negative charge, thus attracting the air towards the rear and creating an airflow without the use of a filter.

 

[JonnyDuke]

Okay... for those who have forgotten what they learned in science class.

First of all, how much did your friend pay for the filter again??? That is one reason why they don't use it for case airflow.

Second, and the most important. Ionized air... or air with an electrical charge, just what you want around electronic components that are sensitive to electro-static discharge! Even if you are venting the air with the charge you still have way too much static sitting very close to your motherboard.

 

[sharkeeper]

RF problems and parts in the path becoming highly (potentially) charged become another. See VanDeGraff for reference.

Cheers!

 

[ScottMac]

And.... rmember this thing is an air cleaner, not a room fan. Collecting all sorts of dust on a component that's supposed to be radiating heat is a bad thing.

Might be good for a patent though....High-speed computer and air cleaner, all-in-one.....BUT WAIT! THere's more...included, for no extra cost, a FREE COFFEE HOLDER !!Just push the button and out it comes.....

(sorry...got carried away...)


FWIW

Scott

 

[hoihtah]

<< First of all, how much did your friend pay for the filter again??? That is one reason why they don't use it for case airflow.
>>



jonny...

are you naive enough to believe that $200-$300 that Sharp image charges is the cost of the parts?
it'd be my guess that it's a combination of parts & labor + research & development + retail markup.

when i looked my friends, it really didn't seem like there's much to it.
just some removable metal strips caged in a plastic case.

i don't think this reason would make much sense for me.

as for having charged air near the mobo... people have done crazier things in attempt to cool a computer cpu.
ie. water? LiquidNitrogen?

it's a matter of containing that charge ... but i don't think it's outrageous to think this.
in powersupplies... which is pretty darn near mobo...
we already keep lots of electrical charges.

it's just a matter of finding a way to use this concept...
and that's what i was asking.
how?

thanks to all the other members that were posting informative and helpful ideas.

 

[hoihtah]

<< The fanless ioin filters are right up there with duck butter, snake oil, mototr oil additives and the psychic hotlines. They just barely work enough that the perpatrators have been lucky so far in avoiding jail terms. >>



you should really try this device out.
it collects quite a bit of dust within just 1 hour session that i was at his house.
it isn't some sort of gimmicky device.
it really works.

i'm sure i can vent out more air and filter more dust... but this thing does this silently.
that's what's most impressive about it.

 

[hoihtah]

<< And.... rmember this thing is an air cleaner, not a room fan. Collecting all sorts of dust on a component that's supposed to be radiating heat is a bad thing.

>>



currently i have 6+ fans in my computer case.
paps L1a's.
they are quiet enough to not bother me...
but that doesn't mean that it doesn't collect all sorts of dust.

whether it's an air cleaner or a room fan... if it generates airflow... it's bound to collect dusts.
so i don't see this as a critical factor.

 

[PowerMacG5]

All it does is collect dust. I had it before I got my HEPA filter and the ionic breeze did not collect the allergents. All it did was make my room a little less dustier. It's only appealing to people that do not want a lot of noise from the fan in a HEPA filter. I personally enjoy the white noise from the HEPA filter, and my computer. For some reason it helps me sleep better. When I shut either my computer or HEPA filter off it sounds like there is something missing.

 

[Demon-Xanth]

Though not quite on topic, I've considered using a home AC unit's filter (which can be found quite a bit cheaper) and a box fan to filter dust. My room gets quite dusty and it's not easy to dust either.

Think it'd work?




As far as the whole ionic propultion deal, someone did make a boat that seated 12 and went 4 knots. The problem was that it was limited to salt water, f'ing huge, f'ing expensive, and only went 4 knots

 

[jteef]

I posted about this before and it was moved to cases & cooling. my original plan was to use something similar to this to cool big class A power amplifiers. It would allow me to use more efficient bonded fin heatsinks than plain ol huge extrusions. Fans are a big no-no in hi-fi. Nobody seemed to think it was a good idea though.

I got most of my information by reading the patents other people have on this. sharper image lists the patent number for the tech that they license from the company that owns it(i forget the name right now) There are references to other materials in that patent that should be helpful.

One of the major problems is that simple ones are going to produce a lot of ozone which is toxic(funny that sharper image markets this as a "feature"). the design the sharper image uses reduces the ozone to below the max amount allowed by law and that is talked about in the patent also. I dont think its going to be able to work as a strictly cpu fan because of size constraints. i was thinking of building a big unit into the side of the case and using duct work to get airflow to various area's inside. right now the project is gonna be on a back burner for quite some time though.

jt

 

[Nefrodite]

its a pos, it spits out poison(ozone) and doesn't do much to clean the air. check out a consumer reports, about 2-3 months back they reviewed air filters. ionic breeze came out dead last since it moves so little air. ozone = bad. think the government put out a warning on that kinda sh*t. sharper image is a pos for pushing that product.

anyways, you'd be better off leaving your case off then to use ionic breeze method

 

[athlonator]

The actual ionic breeze concept works by trapping "majority" of dust particles that happen to pass by it by ambient airflow in the room. So at the end of the day you would see a lot of dust trapped by it. That part is fine.

But it can't help to create an active airflow of its own, that would be large enough, so that it can be used as a fan+heatsink substitute.

 

[hoihtah]

damm... why is it that people miss the whole point of this thread?

if you're like me and have been trying to quiet your computer down as much as possible...
the only alternative to fan was water pump... which still makes some noise.

now... we have a technology that can move air... (perhaps, not a big amount ... like fans, but it still moves)
doesn't that by itself excite anyone else?

it seems like a lot of you guys are just stuck on this things dust collecting feature...
which i've already mentioned... (even fans do this.)

forget the dust part.

and think about the silent airflow.
even as a replacement for a case fan or chipset fan...
doesn't this technology open up a whole window of opportunity?

am i the only one who sees this?

i'm not saying that everything has been figured out.
there's that ozone issue. (which i'm thinking can't be that bad... since this product had to be approved by the government since this is a health-related product)

there's also the ionized air being close to electrical charge sensitive parts.

but i'm sure our great minds can somehow come up with a work around...

no?

isnt' that what HT is all about?

 

[athlonator]

hoihtah, I agree with you that the possibility is there.

I also try to find all kinds of ways to silence the PC that little bit more.

Heck if the idea works in cooling the CPU enough, I wouldnt even mind having to clean the filter on it everyday, if thats what it took.

 

[Nefrodite]

you should really try this device out.
it collects quite a bit of dust within just 1 hour session that i was at his house.
it isn't some sort of gimmicky device.
it really works.

i'm sure i can vent out more air and filter more dust... but this thing does this silently.
that's what's most impressive about it.



err what it does is make you think its working hard. good psychological trick, but according to tests it gets bested several times over by even the cheapest fan based air cleaner.

 

[hoihtah]

have you seen it work Nefrodite?

your statement about how it was bested by even small fans...
you are absolutely correct.

but have you thought about the fact that it's a non moving object that's causing air flow?
you can't compare them two.

as of now... many people use LCD monitors... even though, it has many draw backs compared to the traditional CRTs.
-cost factor 2-3x more.
-weaker image display quality

why? why do people buy LCD monitors?

'cause it has a certain benefit. which in this case would be smaller footprint.

it's a same argument.

as LCD's technology is getting better... and cheaper... eventually... there will be a point where the pros and cons level out.

same issue here... if there can be a development of this ionizing technology to a point where air flow is significant enough... then it can potentially give us that silence that people dream of.

now... from your response... i'm thinking that you haven't personally seen how much air these things can move.

i'd like to challenge you to check it out.

i was very skeptical of its CFM... but after seeing how it works... i was impressed and saw it's potential.

check it out.. for yourself. i'm not saying that it's comparable to a fan... but it's a quite impressive amount.

 

[Nefrodite]

well my main gripe is that it basically emits poison. else it would be a kewl idea.

 

[Howard]

paps L1a's.

wtf.

 

[flot]

hoihtah, this thread is pointless. You said yourself, the thing hardly moves any air. And I'll give you a hint - it is BIG because it needs to be that big to move the small volume of air that it can handle.

Now, in case you didn't notice, most PC fans have to move a tremendous amount of air to effectively cool your computer. I'd wager that the average PC fan moves more air than your ionic breeze filter.

Next, you dismissed the high voltage concept way too quickly. One thing that is deadly to electronic components is static electricity. Essentially, this thing GENERATES static electricity and uses it to propel the air.

In THEORY you could have something THE SIZE OF THE IONIC BREEZE sticking out the back of your case, moving less air than the fan that is currently in there. Is this an effective solution to some problem?!

There is nothing wrong with "fan technology". If you want to move air, that's just about the only way to do it. If you want to move a LOT of air in a SMALL space, you are going to have to put up with a certain level of noise.




I agree that it is a neat gimick, and I thought about getting one too... but then I read up on the ozone issue, and decided that a cool party trick isn't worth a potential health risk. And if you consider the amount of air it moves - you'd probably be just as well off getting a high-quality ceiling fan, and mounting it above your PC. Ceiling fans on "low" speed are practically silent, and can still move a large volume of air. Most of the noise you get from PC fans is becuase they have to spin at such a high speed. If you slow the fan down, you get drastically less airflow, but also less noise.