Red Squirrel
No Lifer
Oh so it's for low pressure systems only? Yeah would not be allowed here either then. The pressure is over 100 PSI here. From what someone told me my area is around 130. Would be cool to install a gauge some day just for fun.
Oh so it's for low pressure systems only? Yeah would not be allowed here either then. The pressure is over 100 PSI here. From what someone told me my area is around 130. Would be cool to install a gauge some day just for fun.
We all know that from past history copper pipe lasts for eonsPex is up in the air still.
Yeh, I think I'll stick with copper. It lasts forever.
BS on these statements...
I have hard well water and 50 year old pipes...been patching and replacing pipe for years due to pin hole leaks...going with pex
I use them all the time. Not sure why they would be illegal? I've used probably 50-75 of them in my remodels.
SphinxnihpS
Diamond Member
- Feb 17, 2005
- 8,368
- 25
- 91
OMG! I just need to say THANK YOU to each and every one of you on this thread! My outside spigot literally came off and the pipe was right at the stucco line of the house. I was able to go to Home Depot with mah boyfriend and get a Sharkbite, saw (had to saw off the old soldered fitting), sand paper and new spigot. Within a half hour (and maybe 2 beers...tehe) we have a brand new faucet outside! You have saved me hundreds of dollars here and I can't thank you enough! Drinks all around!!! ps. I am in California and they do have lead free Sharkbites
Eug
Lifer
- Mar 11, 2000
- 24,049
- 1,681
- 126
Double necro thread revival.
And yeah, none of my Sharkbites for the basement reno (all visible) have leaked. I just got the same contractor back recently for a shower install. He used mainly copper, but did use a couple of Sharkbites behind the wall. I said OK.
He says he's never had one leak in the decade he's been using them, and they're rated for 25 years. Mind you, that would suck if 30 years later they leaked behind a wall. But then again, people have had more problems with pex fittings, judging by the forums.
And yeah, none of my Sharkbites for the basement reno (all visible) have leaked. I just got the same contractor back recently for a shower install. He used mainly copper, but did use a couple of Sharkbites behind the wall. I said OK.
He says he's never had one leak in the decade he's been using them, and they're rated for 25 years. Mind you, that would suck if 30 years later they leaked behind a wall. But then again, people have had more problems with pex fittings, judging by the forums.
I have been using press on fittings for years.
They're new to home owners.
NEVER have had a failure yet.
If they leak you better check and see if your copper pipe is CLEAN and cut even.
I have had many more leaks from poor soldering by "PROFESSIONAL" plumbers.
The guys who complain its not a traditional plumbing method are just mad they're losing business to smart home owners.
NOTHING is 100% but I will tell you, in 15 years I have had NO issues with sharkbite fittings, NOR any fires from a torch, or sloppy soldering.
They're new to home owners.
NEVER have had a failure yet.
If they leak you better check and see if your copper pipe is CLEAN and cut even.
I have had many more leaks from poor soldering by "PROFESSIONAL" plumbers.
The guys who complain its not a traditional plumbing method are just mad they're losing business to smart home owners.
NOTHING is 100% but I will tell you, in 15 years I have had NO issues with sharkbite fittings, NOR any fires from a torch, or sloppy soldering.
Phoenix86
Lifer
- May 21, 2003
- 14,644
- 10
- 81
Now triple.Double necro thread revival.
And yeah, none of my Sharkbites for the basement reno (all visible) have leaked. I just got the same contractor back recently for a shower install. He used mainly copper, but did use a couple of Sharkbites behind the wall. I said OK.
He says he's never had one leak in the decade he's been using them, and they're rated for 25 years. Mind you, that would suck if 30 years later they leaked behind a wall. But then again, people have had more problems with pex fittings, judging by the forums.
WE GET IT SHARKBITE.
Red Squirrel
No Lifer
I have a few sharkbites around the house, some have been around for 5 years. No leaks yet.
I also used a sharkbite to transition from CPVC to copper for connecting my humidifier drain to the existing furnace drain line. I don't think there's any other way to make that conversion, kinda an oddball situation you would normally not do every day. I could have used CPVC for the humidifier drain but I wanted to be fancy and used 3/4" copper. Did not want to use copper for the actual furnace drain though due to the corrosive water that comes out.
I also used a sharkbite to transition from CPVC to copper for connecting my humidifier drain to the existing furnace drain line. I don't think there's any other way to make that conversion, kinda an oddball situation you would normally not do every day. I could have used CPVC for the humidifier drain but I wanted to be fancy and used 3/4" copper.
Did not want to use copper for the actual furnace drain though due to the corrosive water that comes out.
KK
Lifer
- Jan 2, 2001
- 15,903
- 4
- 81
the one shark bite i put on leaked, but that was my fault, taking the old cheap shark-bite type cutoff valve left a few nicks in the cpvc. I didn't cut the pipe back as I wanted to try it without cutting off any of the pipe coming out of the wall. It started leaking so i removed the sharkbite and cut about 3/8" of pipe off and put the sharkbite back on and it hasn't leaked yet.
notposting
Diamond Member
- Jul 22, 2005
- 3,498
- 33
- 91
QUADRUPLE! :thumbsup:
But not my first post here! Though I did find it searching the internet...was wondering if the damn (cheap off brand push fit fitting from Lowe's) thing was supposed to spin around.
Evidently, yes.
MongGrel
Lifer
- Dec 3, 2013
- 38,466
- 3,067
- 121
Sorry to jump into an old thread. But I read a couple of people implying or outright stating that copper lasts forever. I just couldn't sit on my hands. I prefer copper also. Primarily because it is clean, does not leach chemicals, and has antimicrobial properties.
However...Copper DOES NOT LAST FOREVER. Period. Sure...I suppose with perfectly neutral pH water, in a perfect installation, with minimal temperature changes, and no copper exposure to concrete, wood, dirt, rocks, or other metals.....then MAYBE it will last "forever," whatever that means.
But in the real word, no one hacks up a house like an electrician or a plumber. Now you can jump all over me and explain how "YOU" wouldn't hack up a house...but the reality is that nearly every old house I have worked on or owned had been hacked up by plumbers before I got there. So a proper installation is a dream in most cases. Even in new construction. Ever been on a job site? Seen walls out of plumb by more than 1"? This is common. VERY common. There is no magical sub-contracting crew out there that does things "right." They all think they do it right. But why do we spend our lives going behind them and re-doing their work?
Copper through pine studs in a tight hole can oxidize the copper and cause pin-holes in 20 year old pipe. I have seen it. Not sure what does it. Sap maybe? Possibly some chemical on the wood? But I have seen it. Pinholes wherever the copper touched the wood tight.
Rocks can have metal content and react with copper and eat pinholes into it.
Concrete, an alkaline, outright reacts with copper and eats holes in it over time. You should sleeve utilities in plastic pipe when running through concrete.
Copper, where joined improperly to galvanized (which is to be found in at least one place, often more, in nearly every old house), will have an electrolytic reaction and the junction will fail many years later.
As for brass/o-ring quick connect fittings: They use a rubber seal. However, so do many of the water supply lines that connect fixtures all over the house. The fixtures either have crimp connection or screw-on connections with rubber washers. EVERY toilet supply seals with a rubber seal. Many designs of supply shut-off valves rely on rubber seals. Washing machines (not considered permanent) often use the same hoses for 20 or 30 years without failure (this is a very bad idea...). And old rubber fittings often fail if you interact with them.
So I primarily have two points:
1) ANY type of plumbing can and will fail over time. Even copper. Even though I prefer copper.
2) Most household plumbing is riddled with rubber fittings. Rubber fittings that are installed as permanent installs. Sinks and fixtures are considered permanent. And these fittings often fail when you attempt to tighten a shut-off, etc. But they generally don't fail if you don't touch them. For decades.
That said, I have two sharkbites in my attic on a stick of 3/4" copper. I don't like it and sometime in the next year or two I am going to go up there and sweat the joints. Both are Elbows. Rubber fittings are fine. But I don't particularly like them in the ceiling.
As for using sharkbites on copper, as a permanent install, in a crawlspace? I say "absolutely." I see no reason not too. And if it fails, it takes 5 minutes to replace it. No cutting or sweating required.
However...Copper DOES NOT LAST FOREVER. Period. Sure...I suppose with perfectly neutral pH water, in a perfect installation, with minimal temperature changes, and no copper exposure to concrete, wood, dirt, rocks, or other metals.....then MAYBE it will last "forever," whatever that means.
But in the real word, no one hacks up a house like an electrician or a plumber. Now you can jump all over me and explain how "YOU" wouldn't hack up a house...but the reality is that nearly every old house I have worked on or owned had been hacked up by plumbers before I got there. So a proper installation is a dream in most cases. Even in new construction. Ever been on a job site? Seen walls out of plumb by more than 1"? This is common. VERY common. There is no magical sub-contracting crew out there that does things "right." They all think they do it right. But why do we spend our lives going behind them and re-doing their work?
Copper through pine studs in a tight hole can oxidize the copper and cause pin-holes in 20 year old pipe. I have seen it. Not sure what does it. Sap maybe? Possibly some chemical on the wood? But I have seen it. Pinholes wherever the copper touched the wood tight.
Rocks can have metal content and react with copper and eat pinholes into it.
Concrete, an alkaline, outright reacts with copper and eats holes in it over time. You should sleeve utilities in plastic pipe when running through concrete.
Copper, where joined improperly to galvanized (which is to be found in at least one place, often more, in nearly every old house), will have an electrolytic reaction and the junction will fail many years later.
As for brass/o-ring quick connect fittings: They use a rubber seal. However, so do many of the water supply lines that connect fixtures all over the house. The fixtures either have crimp connection or screw-on connections with rubber washers. EVERY toilet supply seals with a rubber seal. Many designs of supply shut-off valves rely on rubber seals. Washing machines (not considered permanent) often use the same hoses for 20 or 30 years without failure (this is a very bad idea...). And old rubber fittings often fail if you interact with them.
So I primarily have two points:
1) ANY type of plumbing can and will fail over time. Even copper. Even though I prefer copper.
2) Most household plumbing is riddled with rubber fittings. Rubber fittings that are installed as permanent installs. Sinks and fixtures are considered permanent. And these fittings often fail when you attempt to tighten a shut-off, etc. But they generally don't fail if you don't touch them. For decades.
That said, I have two sharkbites in my attic on a stick of 3/4" copper. I don't like it and sometime in the next year or two I am going to go up there and sweat the joints. Both are Elbows. Rubber fittings are fine. But I don't particularly like them in the ceiling.
As for using sharkbites on copper, as a permanent install, in a crawlspace? I say "absolutely." I see no reason not too. And if it fails, it takes 5 minutes to replace it. No cutting or sweating required.
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For the people who don't use plastic because they don't want their water sitting in plastic:
First, I feel your pain. I totally agree with you.
Second, most municipalities use large, plastic water mains. So the water distribution for the whole city is typically plastic. And depending on where you live, your local water pipe might move a lot of water, or very little. So city water DOES travel through miles of plastic before it reaches your home and in some instances, it spends significant time "sitting" in plastic before you turn on your tap.
But that said....I like my drinking water to run through copper as well.
In Florida, where I used to live many years ago, they plumb EVERYTHING with pvc. Everything. Supply lines from meter and the whole house. 100% plastic. They've been doing this for decades. I assume this is common in all locations with warm weather.
First, I feel your pain. I totally agree with you.
Second, most municipalities use large, plastic water mains. So the water distribution for the whole city is typically plastic. And depending on where you live, your local water pipe might move a lot of water, or very little. So city water DOES travel through miles of plastic before it reaches your home and in some instances, it spends significant time "sitting" in plastic before you turn on your tap.
But that said....I like my drinking water to run through copper as well.
In Florida, where I used to live many years ago, they plumb EVERYTHING with pvc. Everything. Supply lines from meter and the whole house. 100% plastic. They've been doing this for decades. I assume this is common in all locations with warm weather.
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CPA
Elite Member
- Nov 19, 2001
- 30,322
- 4
- 0
sourceninja
Diamond Member
- Mar 8, 2005
- 8,805
- 65
- 91
I just had to share my gatorbite story.
I was replacing a dishwasher and some jackass who owned the house before me put the shutoff valve under the dishwasher. It's about 4 cabinets away from the sink and the feed comes up from the basement. The shutoff is one of those old twist pin valves (not sure on the technical name) but with my hard water it's not moving an inch (The house had hard water for 30 years and only got a softener when I moved in 9 years ago).
"No problem" I think, I go down into the basement and shut off water to the whole house and drain the pipes. I take the old dishwasher out and try to put the new one in. Only one big problem. The shutoff valve pokes up too high and is hitting the back of the dishwasher preventing it from going in more than 1/3. Now I'm in trouble.
I'm not a plumber, I'm not even a 'handyman' and I don't know the first thing about sweating pipe. I do know that I need to move this shutoff. I call a few friends and nobody else knows how to sweat copper. It's a weekend so I can't get a plumber and my whole family and most of my friends are coming over for our thanksgiving dinner that sunday (we do it on sunday so everyone can make it).
Finally a buddy recommends going with pex and using a gatorbite. A quick trip to lowes and about 15 minutes of work and we have moved the shutoff to the basement and the dishwasher was installed. I was very impressed by how easy it worked, it just didn't seem possible. I check on it from time to time, but we haven't even gotten a dribble.
I was replacing a dishwasher and some jackass who owned the house before me put the shutoff valve under the dishwasher. It's about 4 cabinets away from the sink and the feed comes up from the basement. The shutoff is one of those old twist pin valves (not sure on the technical name) but with my hard water it's not moving an inch (The house had hard water for 30 years and only got a softener when I moved in 9 years ago).
"No problem" I think, I go down into the basement and shut off water to the whole house and drain the pipes. I take the old dishwasher out and try to put the new one in. Only one big problem. The shutoff valve pokes up too high and is hitting the back of the dishwasher preventing it from going in more than 1/3. Now I'm in trouble.
I'm not a plumber, I'm not even a 'handyman' and I don't know the first thing about sweating pipe. I do know that I need to move this shutoff. I call a few friends and nobody else knows how to sweat copper. It's a weekend so I can't get a plumber and my whole family and most of my friends are coming over for our thanksgiving dinner that sunday (we do it on sunday so everyone can make it).
Finally a buddy recommends going with pex and using a gatorbite. A quick trip to lowes and about 15 minutes of work and we have moved the shutoff to the basement and the dishwasher was installed. I was very impressed by how easy it worked, it just didn't seem possible. I check on it from time to time, but we haven't even gotten a dribble.
I would use them under the sink for a fast repair where the pipe is to remain exposed and I can check for leaks but I would not put them inside a wall or in the attic. They work great but what about 20 years from now??
Scarpozzi
Lifer
- Jun 13, 2000
- 26,391
- 1,780
- 126
All plumbing connections can fail. I've heard people swear by those. Apollo makes push on connectors as well. In the Pex world, you basically have Apollo (Lowes) and Sharkbite (Home Depot)... They're both about the same. You can actually buy some Sharkbite stuff at Lowes, but can't find Apollo at Home Depot around here... Not sure what contracts they signed...
Puppies04
Diamond Member
- Apr 25, 2011
- 5,909
- 17
- 76
QUADRUPLE! :thumbsup:
But not my first post here! Though I did find it searching the internet...was wondering if the damn (cheap off brand push fit fitting from Lowe's) thing was supposed to spin around.
Evidently, yes.
Quintuple necro. This thread just won't die....
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