I see that there are often traffic infraction threads here, most for first-time offenders, and there is a general lack of insight on the whole procedure. Since I sat through 3+ hours of court last week, I hope by sharing the experience I can demystify a bit of the process here.
I've been to a few different court houses - they all vary slightly in procedure (city vs county court, etc) Usually, I walk in and walk out. This last one, in a county house in North Texas, was a bit longer.
8:30am
*Show up to court house at schedule time. About 30 people already sitting inside.
*Layout is judge's seat at the front, 2 flanking seating areas (1 for accusers [cops], other for the clerk & courthouse cop). Everybody else sits in wooden pews, like at a church. *Prosecutor is near judge's seat, shuffling folders (cases) and does roll-call
8:30-9:30am
*A cop file in every 10 minutes [bad news for people there] to their seats, 6 in total.
*Also, traffic attorneys in their cheap suits walk in and out casually
a) their client is not present. they walk up to prosecutor, shake hands, hand off some papers, and leave
b) call out their client's name (they havent met). both walk outside to confer for a few minutes. client leaves. (a) attorney walks in, shake hands, hands off paper, leave.
9:30-11:30am
*Judge actually appears.
*Prosecutor stand right in front of judge, hands off a case folder, and begin calling individuals up
*Accuser (cop) and defendant come up, stand on each side of prosecutor, pledge of truth
1. Generic dialogue b/t prosecutor and cop starts like this:
-What is your name
+Davey Douchebag
-How are you employed
+As lieutenant deputy of precint 24 etc
-And when did you meet Joe Defendant?
+January 1st
-How did you meet
+I was patrolling 1400th block of Park Avenue and saw Joe Defendant commit this violation
-Did you have clear sight of violation / was your Lidar property calibrated
+Yes
-Was this violation in XYZ County?
+Yes
2. Judge asks if Defendant has any question, for the accuser or prosecutor
3. Defendant asks cops a few questions, and makes a few statement towards judge
4. Judge invariably replies "I find you guilty. Go around the corner to arrange payment. You have 10 days to appeal and 30 days to pay fine"
*Defendant questions towards cops are almost always "did you remember that I did this or that, did you see that I was sandwhiched between 3 semi trucks, did you ask me about the traffic situation, etc etc etc". Cops never remember any details about the particular infractions, but it doesnt hurt their case.
*Most people's "defenses" weren't convincing, except a few. Even those that were turned no luck... guilty. Lots of BOGUS tickets.
*1 guy got a ticket because cop observed he had smoke coming out of his tail pipe for 10+ seconds. guy showed that ticketed location is 1.5 miles from his house --- he had just left the house in the COLD WINTER morning. produced all records showing car in perfect mechanical/smog conditions... smoke is due to humidity/conditions. GUILTY.
*1 officer stood trial vs 10+ individuals. apparently, he and 2 other cops patrolled a largely empty parking lot. people were apparently pulling off a clogged freeway to "shortcut" through the parking lot, to a perpendicular feeder road. he indiscriminately flagged every single car that went through the lot and issued tickets, on grounds of "i observed that he had no intention to stop in the lot, and that he only wanted to cut through". every defendant got shot down, to stiff tune of 200$.
*teenager came up in a suit and briefcase. dude was speeding 56mph in a school zone. his first question to the cop was: "do you know how a lidar works". the judge chuckled at the trite amateurish tactic of trying to disprove cop's competence of equipment (i laughed too). "how does it work?" "how many soundwaves does it shoot" "did you know if it reflects off my windshield, instead of my license plate, the reading could be off" etc etc etc. The cop barely knew how the device work, but clearly the kid did not either. Obviously, defense DENIED
11:45am
*2/3 of courthouse got pwn3d at the stand.... 1/3rd of us left
*all cops are gone except for 1... could be mine (forgot what he looks like)
*i wasnt playing stupid amateur games. i was to go up, fully admit what i did, and bargain for a $fine reduction
*girl called up to stand. her officer not there. she's first to be dismissed by prosecutor
*my name called up. i see remaining cop still seated down. prosecutor ask "do you want to change your plea [from not guilty]?" lawl... are you fcking serious?!?!? im 2nd person dismissed 🙂
*i assume most everyone else after me got dismissed to
Long post, I know. Some of you know what a tedious, bullsht ordeal this whole thing is. I just wanted to share for those who havent been through it.
Cliffs:
*court is BS
*traffic attorney are dirty law school bottoms, working under the table deals
*if your cop shows up, youre guaranteed to be screwed
*ive been batting 1.000 everytime im at court , so take your chances =)
I've been to a few different court houses - they all vary slightly in procedure (city vs county court, etc) Usually, I walk in and walk out. This last one, in a county house in North Texas, was a bit longer.
8:30am
*Show up to court house at schedule time. About 30 people already sitting inside.
*Layout is judge's seat at the front, 2 flanking seating areas (1 for accusers [cops], other for the clerk & courthouse cop). Everybody else sits in wooden pews, like at a church. *Prosecutor is near judge's seat, shuffling folders (cases) and does roll-call
8:30-9:30am
*A cop file in every 10 minutes [bad news for people there] to their seats, 6 in total.
*Also, traffic attorneys in their cheap suits walk in and out casually
a) their client is not present. they walk up to prosecutor, shake hands, hand off some papers, and leave
b) call out their client's name (they havent met). both walk outside to confer for a few minutes. client leaves. (a) attorney walks in, shake hands, hands off paper, leave.
9:30-11:30am
*Judge actually appears.
*Prosecutor stand right in front of judge, hands off a case folder, and begin calling individuals up
*Accuser (cop) and defendant come up, stand on each side of prosecutor, pledge of truth
1. Generic dialogue b/t prosecutor and cop starts like this:
-What is your name
+Davey Douchebag
-How are you employed
+As lieutenant deputy of precint 24 etc
-And when did you meet Joe Defendant?
+January 1st
-How did you meet
+I was patrolling 1400th block of Park Avenue and saw Joe Defendant commit this violation
-Did you have clear sight of violation / was your Lidar property calibrated
+Yes
-Was this violation in XYZ County?
+Yes
2. Judge asks if Defendant has any question, for the accuser or prosecutor
3. Defendant asks cops a few questions, and makes a few statement towards judge
4. Judge invariably replies "I find you guilty. Go around the corner to arrange payment. You have 10 days to appeal and 30 days to pay fine"
*Defendant questions towards cops are almost always "did you remember that I did this or that, did you see that I was sandwhiched between 3 semi trucks, did you ask me about the traffic situation, etc etc etc". Cops never remember any details about the particular infractions, but it doesnt hurt their case.
*Most people's "defenses" weren't convincing, except a few. Even those that were turned no luck... guilty. Lots of BOGUS tickets.
*1 guy got a ticket because cop observed he had smoke coming out of his tail pipe for 10+ seconds. guy showed that ticketed location is 1.5 miles from his house --- he had just left the house in the COLD WINTER morning. produced all records showing car in perfect mechanical/smog conditions... smoke is due to humidity/conditions. GUILTY.
*1 officer stood trial vs 10+ individuals. apparently, he and 2 other cops patrolled a largely empty parking lot. people were apparently pulling off a clogged freeway to "shortcut" through the parking lot, to a perpendicular feeder road. he indiscriminately flagged every single car that went through the lot and issued tickets, on grounds of "i observed that he had no intention to stop in the lot, and that he only wanted to cut through". every defendant got shot down, to stiff tune of 200$.
*teenager came up in a suit and briefcase. dude was speeding 56mph in a school zone. his first question to the cop was: "do you know how a lidar works". the judge chuckled at the trite amateurish tactic of trying to disprove cop's competence of equipment (i laughed too). "how does it work?" "how many soundwaves does it shoot" "did you know if it reflects off my windshield, instead of my license plate, the reading could be off" etc etc etc. The cop barely knew how the device work, but clearly the kid did not either. Obviously, defense DENIED
11:45am
*2/3 of courthouse got pwn3d at the stand.... 1/3rd of us left
*all cops are gone except for 1... could be mine (forgot what he looks like)
*i wasnt playing stupid amateur games. i was to go up, fully admit what i did, and bargain for a $fine reduction
*girl called up to stand. her officer not there. she's first to be dismissed by prosecutor
*my name called up. i see remaining cop still seated down. prosecutor ask "do you want to change your plea [from not guilty]?" lawl... are you fcking serious?!?!? im 2nd person dismissed 🙂
*i assume most everyone else after me got dismissed to
Long post, I know. Some of you know what a tedious, bullsht ordeal this whole thing is. I just wanted to share for those who havent been through it.
Cliffs:
*court is BS
*traffic attorney are dirty law school bottoms, working under the table deals
*if your cop shows up, youre guaranteed to be screwed
*ive been batting 1.000 everytime im at court , so take your chances =)
