Shame on us Americans for supporting slave labor in China

[daniel1113]

Originally posted by: 0marTheZealot
64 cents an hour vs 20 dollars an hour. Who do you think you would hire if you were the CEO of any company?

No one... chances are the CEO has no say 🙂

 

[0marTheZealot]

ahahahaha way to ruin my analogy 🙂

 

[HalosPuma]

Unfortunately, nearly all of the items we purchase today is not "Made in the USA", but rather "Made in China." China has supassed Taiwan, Japan, Korea, etc. in manufacturing due to their lower costs.

Now, does this mean I'll stop buying "Made in China?" Hell no. Many of the essential items we use on a daily basis are only made in foreign countries. I would not mind paying a little more for "Made in the USA", but those products don't exist. Hell, even the famous "red wagon" that kids for decades have been playing with is now Made in China.

China is a powerhouse and the next superpower. We have hollowed out our country. It is very sad. The solution, though, is rather simple - dramatically reduce the size of government which will dramatically reduce the level of taxation for both individuals and corporations as well as dramatically cut back on all of the nonense regulations like OSHA, EPA, etc., etc.

Look, everyone - it's called economics and capitalism. China is a shining beacon of capitalism - that is why many corporations are moving there. We have become overburdened with socialism. It's that simple. If I owned a manufacturing company, whati incentive would I have to pay an American $6.75/hour (min wage) + corporate taxes + OSHA & EPA conditions + city tax + county tax + regulations + union harassment, etc. when I can go to China and pay $0.15/hour + some other taxes. There's no comparison.

 

[0marTheZealot]

Halos, the average wage for a manufactoring job is 20 dollars. The average wage is 64 cents in China.

 

[HalosPuma]

Originally posted by: 0marTheZealot
Halos, the average wage for a manufactoring job is 20 dollars. The average wage is 64 cents in China.

Okay, then that's even more of an argument in my case for offshoring to China. $20/hour?!?! For doing what? Pressing a button on an assembly line? Pressing a sewing machine pedal while pushing the cloth under the needle?

Sh!t, $20/hour is what we are paying some of our network admins and that takes a hellova lot more skill and talent than manufacturing.

 

[drinkmorejava]

Regardless of the conditions, the American people already know about this, and frankly no one really cares enough to do anything significant about it. Second, there really isn't anything America can do about it, war....yeah, um, right, and trade sanctions....oh wait, we had already been doing that for how many years. It's completely up to their pathetic little (I suppose it's not little but w/e) communist government that just does anything it can to stay around. It's not like they actually wanted to let their people have internet, they did it to keep another Tiananmen square from happening, same with dozens of other things they've done recently to keep the world from freaking out on them. That?s the reason why China is still around, because it was able to adapt to new world conditions to keep it?s economy from going to hell, and as long as that doesn?t happen they?ll be around....as horrible as ever.

 

[razor2025]

Originally posted by: HalosPuma
Unfortunately, nearly all of the items we purchase today is not "Made in the USA", but rather "Made in China." China has supassed Taiwan, Japan, Korea, etc. in manufacturing due to their lower costs.

Now, does this mean I'll stop buying "Made in China?" Hell no. Many of the essential items we use on a daily basis are only made in foreign countries. I would not mind paying a little more for "Made in the USA", but those products don't exist. Hell, even the famous "red wagon" that kids for decades have been playing with is now Made in China.

China is a powerhouse and the next superpower. We have hollowed out our country. It is very sad. The solution, though, is rather simple - dramatically reduce the size of government which will dramatically reduce the level of taxation for both individuals and corporations as well as dramatically cut back on all of the nonense regulations like OSHA, EPA, etc., etc.

Look, everyone - it's called economics and capitalism. China is a shining beacon of capitalism - that is why many corporations are moving there. We have become overburdened with socialism. It's that simple. If I owned a manufacturing company, whati incentive would I have to pay an American $6.75/hour (min wage) + corporate taxes + OSHA & EPA conditions + city tax + county tax + regulations + union harassment, etc. when I can go to China and pay $0.15/hour + some other taxes. There's no comparison.

Are you crazy? So what you're suggesting is that we're going to stoop ourselves down to their level. By your logic, why even have government at all? Let the free market and corporation decide everything. OSHA, EPA, and many other regulations are hard-earned lessons paid by the BLOOD AND SWEAT of workers in the past. Did you think we would have safety regulation without tragedy of Triangle Shirt Factory, or EPA regulation without factories freely dumping chemicals into the enviornment? Capitalism is based upon the core principal of minimum investment for maximum profit. It does not account anything about the "human consequence".

China is shining beacon of capitalism, because it whores itself to the corporations. Just like in 19th and early 20th centry America, Chinese government is whoring its enviornment and people to the corporation for economic growth. Once certain level of growth is attained, the Chinese government will begin to put stricter rules against the corporations due to public outcry. Someone has already posted an article about workers in Guandong protesting against the working condition (Btw, I was born in Guandong). When that happens, the corporations will just move on to the next cheapest labor. Remember, their sole purpose is to improve their bottom line.

As for why native Chinese are not appalled by these conditions, it's already stated many times in this thread. The rural area of China is very under-developed. The population growth in rural is still skyrocketing (due to the fact that birth-rate policy is practically unenforceable in those areas) and there are not enough resource available in rural areas to support the mass. Therefore, the rural Chinese flocks to the city and take up "slave labor" like jobs in order to survive. The urban Chinese are facing similar problem we're facing, the mass influx of cheap labor. They have to compete with them, while trying to maintain their standard of living. Either way, the lower class is suffering for the benefit of the upper class. No matter how much people say "free trade" and "globalization" is good, it comes with a price.

As for whether China can continue to expand its economy, it will largely depend upon our economy for a little bit more time. If consumers in US goes broke, then China will have to find a replacement consumer for their goods. That task is near impossible. Also, the banking system in China have a huge problem. It has to keep its currency under-valued to sustain their economic growth, otherwise the country will go into an uncontrollable inflation. The security of the banks are also being chipped away as numerous banks are giving away un-secured loans to business to continue "expand" the economy. All of these actions allows the country to create enormous economic growth, however it rides upon the sole assumptions that the economies of their consumer will continue to grow (be able to consume their goods). Yes, China's economy is growing rapidly. Their place in the world is rising. However, its rise in power is not upon solid concrete.

 

[yllus]

Originally posted by: CWRMadcat
You can't expect a transitioning economy to suddenly promote a $6.75 minimum wage. Overworked and underpaid labor has plagued every modern economy at some point in history. The 19th century industrial revolution in the United States involved immense amounts of cheap labor provided by women and young children, with long working hours and by your standards, "slave" wages. If you really feel these wages are unfair, donate to third party charities that help impoverished people in those countries. As the Chinese people enjoy a stronger economy, industry will change alongside with it. It's simply a matter of time.

This is the situation I find most realistic as well. I don't believe Americans - even if to a man you all united together - have the leverage or power to speed along progress or wages in China.

If you stop buying Chinese items, those workers starve.

If you insist on anything near equitable wages to what we earn, companies simplify their supply lines and relocate back to North America. Chinese workers starve.

What this thread would benefit from greatly is a recap of how the working class of America from Civil War times to World War II progressed in wages and working conditions. From ~1845 to ~1945, we saw the advent of unions, labour laws, workplace health and safety agencies, etc. Are the same factors taking place in China?

 

[Infohawk]

Where's the evidence that chinese workers would starve without American dollars? From what I understand most starvation today occurs today because of political strife and infrastructure and that there's enough free food everywhere.

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: Beowulf

Originally posted by: Steeplerot
same deal here I can't even remember the last time I bought clothing new besides socks and boxers.
(Besides the fact that modern "fashion" is pretty dumb looking also)
Heck I even buy my band tshirts from goodwill or aunt sally v's market.

Goodwill????? bro I don't have much and even when I arrived here from Cuba I wouldn't shop at goodwill call it pride or whatever but I like name brand items I always say quality over quantity.

That's why latins get the vollo.😉

 

[Chinadefender]

True but not accurate. Slave does not mean in this way.

Almost all Chinese cities have really set minimum salary and work condition requirements for workers. Not now, just in 1950s.

Sadly now the workforce market is unbalanced, and capital speaks louder.

Unions exist but seem too weak in face of managers. Companies could easily fire not obedient workers and find new workers.

Local governments does not dare to say too much and scare out shareholders.

Many old workers said like that: it costs so much time and blood to build a socialist country, and overnight exploiting comes back.

In fact pseudosocialism and early-capitalism prevail in China.

Easy to point out problems, while hard to solve problems.

Anyway this is a warmly discussed topic in China. What workers can do is to try best to leave bad companies and work for a bit better companies.

Strikes also happen in local companies and foreign companies in China.

 

[piasabird]

How is cheap labor in China any different than underpaid Mexican workers?

 

[Promethply]

Originally posted by: CycloWizard
I was once a member of an anti-sweat shop organization. However, after becoming friends with people from India and China (you'll have a lot of that when you're an engineering grad student 😛), I've come to realize that the people working in the 'sweat shops' are being elevated from deadly poverty. I was originally struck by claims that they were making five cents a day until I realized that that's easily a living wage in these places. Thus, I disagree that this is 'slave labor'.

That said, I am heavily in favor of improved working conditions for the workers. They, along with higher wages, will come with time, just as they did in this country. Outside pressure to push in that direction would certainly be a good thing, though I don't think the situation is nearly as dire as some would have you believe.

Unbiased opinion :thumbsup: