Now, I am probably known as being one of the biggest shader model 3.0 fans on the forums. Why? Why not? How can you not be? Is it because only Nvidia offers it now and you are still bonded to ATI? Well, I hope I can get my point across to everyone on why it is good. Also, what about the 6xxx series? Will they perform well in next-gen games that use SM3.0?
First off, I want this to be a civilized discussion (unlikely to happen) and not a flame war (likely to happen). This thread is based around my opinion of SM3.0, but my opinions are backed by the facts. (I understand that sounds strange and you want to know "what facts").
I will list many sites and they all have something to do with SM3.0. I recommend you read all of them before posting.
http://www.gamers-depot.com/interviews/dx9b/001.htm (Interviews many game developers and give you their input on shader model 3.0)
http://www.gamespy.com/articles/510/510938p1.html (Talks a bit about the Sm3.0 on 6800 cards.)
www.hardocp.com/article.html?art=NjA5 (Great, thourough explanation of SM3.0 and what it can do. It also puts it up against 2.0. I must also tell you that ANY Sm3.0 screenshot on there is really using sm2.0. Disregard the pictures, but the text is what is important)
http://www.nordichardware.com/Articles/?page=2&skrivelse=346 (Simple Far Cry tests running Sm3.0...Shows that it slightly improves performance, while also improving eye candy)
http://www.gamespot.com/news/2005/03/09/news_6120091.html (Not really worth reading, but it states that many next generation games on XBOX 2 are using the Unreal Engine 3, which uses SM3.0 heavily. Many Xbox 2 games will be on PC)
http://www.gamespot.com/news/2005/03/09/news_6120126.html (Unreal Engine 3 info. It is important to note that a programmer of the engine mentioned that the 6600GT would run the engine, and games based off of it, easily)
http://www.microsoft.com/whdc/winhec/partners/shadermodel30_NVIDIA.mspx (a list of some SM3.0 features and how they improve over features in 2.0)
This is directly from the Gamespot article with Unreal engine 3 at GDC:
"An even more pressing question is the kind of hardware you will require to run Unreal Engine 3 games. Next-generation consoles will have no problems with Unreal Engine 3 games, but PC gamers don't need to worry, according to Rein. He said that a video card based on an Nvidia 6600GT, the kind currently available for around $250, will be able to handle games based on the engine easily. However, by the time any games based on Unreal Engine 3 ship next year, those cards will have dropped in price considerably, meaning that PC gamers won't have to drop big bucks on upgrades.
Epic also acknowledged that there are already several third-party projects under way using Unreal Engine 3, including at least one online role-playing game.?
Now, this my though, but Rein only mentioned a card from the 6xxx series...and they support Shader Model 3.0. In fact, Unreal Engine 3 uses SM3.0 heavily. Not only that, he mentioned that a 6600GT would run the engine easily. Plus, there are several games under way using the engine (most likely to be released early next year).
That alone can partially answer the question, "Will my 6600gt run next gen games?"
The answer (or at least for UE3) would be YES.
Also, many think SM3.0 games won't be out for a while. They will in fact be released late this year or early next year.
Also, many people say this: "Far Cry has minimal improvement with SM3.0, therefore 3.0 isn't that important."
No, Far Cry was built with 1.1 and 2.0. A game built with a heavy reliance on (or great support for) shader model 3.0 will truly show us what it is capable of.
There is an official list of games that support (or will) SM3.0:
Unreal 3engine
Lord of the rings: Battle for the middle earth,
Stalker: Shadows of Chernobyl,
Vampire: Bloodlines,
Splinter Cell 3,
Tiger Woods 2005,
Madden 2005,
Driver 3.0,
Grafan ,
Metal of Honor: Pacific Assault,
Painkiller trough Patch,
Far cry trough Patch.
Half life 2 (sometime)
I will also mention a couple of feature that will make 3.0 look far superior to 2.0.
Displacement Mapping- This is only available with SM3.0 Unlike normal mapping, where the object is not physically changed, but looks like it, displacement mapping actually changes the object. The texture and lighting creates real height on an object. Not only that, but the shadow of that object will show all of the displacement mapping changes. SM2.0 can't do any of that (or at least, not easily)
Full-Speed 32-Bit Color Precision- To be honest, I don't know what this does. But many game developers find it to be important.
Many other websites and magazines (when they did a 6800 vs x800 article) that although the x800 performs better in today's games, the 6800 WILL pull ahead in future games as early as late 2005. They mentioned that SM3.0 will be a must.
For those of us with the 6xxx series, we are set for future games. It is a fact, it came straight from the programers of Unreal Engine 3. Sorry to say, you can't argue with that because I would trust a programmer of that engine over someone who knows a lot less about it.
It seems ATI thinks SM3.0 is important enough to go into the R520 core. So it must be important.
For those of you who think SM3.0 is pointless and should not be a buying factor for the 6xxx series, you are wrong.
BUT, I must add this before you flame me. If you upgrade often, don't worry about 2.0 or 3.0. If you don't (like me) SM3.0 should be enough to make you pick up a 6xxx card now.
I really don't know what point I was trying to get across. It is a mass response to those who disagree with me on my Shader Model 3.0 views. I wanted to get some facts down about it too.
Please discuss in a civilized way with me and others!
First off, I want this to be a civilized discussion (unlikely to happen) and not a flame war (likely to happen). This thread is based around my opinion of SM3.0, but my opinions are backed by the facts. (I understand that sounds strange and you want to know "what facts").
I will list many sites and they all have something to do with SM3.0. I recommend you read all of them before posting.
http://www.gamers-depot.com/interviews/dx9b/001.htm (Interviews many game developers and give you their input on shader model 3.0)
http://www.gamespy.com/articles/510/510938p1.html (Talks a bit about the Sm3.0 on 6800 cards.)
www.hardocp.com/article.html?art=NjA5 (Great, thourough explanation of SM3.0 and what it can do. It also puts it up against 2.0. I must also tell you that ANY Sm3.0 screenshot on there is really using sm2.0. Disregard the pictures, but the text is what is important)
http://www.nordichardware.com/Articles/?page=2&skrivelse=346 (Simple Far Cry tests running Sm3.0...Shows that it slightly improves performance, while also improving eye candy)
http://www.gamespot.com/news/2005/03/09/news_6120091.html (Not really worth reading, but it states that many next generation games on XBOX 2 are using the Unreal Engine 3, which uses SM3.0 heavily. Many Xbox 2 games will be on PC)
http://www.gamespot.com/news/2005/03/09/news_6120126.html (Unreal Engine 3 info. It is important to note that a programmer of the engine mentioned that the 6600GT would run the engine, and games based off of it, easily)
http://www.microsoft.com/whdc/winhec/partners/shadermodel30_NVIDIA.mspx (a list of some SM3.0 features and how they improve over features in 2.0)
This is directly from the Gamespot article with Unreal engine 3 at GDC:
"An even more pressing question is the kind of hardware you will require to run Unreal Engine 3 games. Next-generation consoles will have no problems with Unreal Engine 3 games, but PC gamers don't need to worry, according to Rein. He said that a video card based on an Nvidia 6600GT, the kind currently available for around $250, will be able to handle games based on the engine easily. However, by the time any games based on Unreal Engine 3 ship next year, those cards will have dropped in price considerably, meaning that PC gamers won't have to drop big bucks on upgrades.
Epic also acknowledged that there are already several third-party projects under way using Unreal Engine 3, including at least one online role-playing game.?
Now, this my though, but Rein only mentioned a card from the 6xxx series...and they support Shader Model 3.0. In fact, Unreal Engine 3 uses SM3.0 heavily. Not only that, he mentioned that a 6600GT would run the engine easily. Plus, there are several games under way using the engine (most likely to be released early next year).
That alone can partially answer the question, "Will my 6600gt run next gen games?"
The answer (or at least for UE3) would be YES.
Also, many think SM3.0 games won't be out for a while. They will in fact be released late this year or early next year.
Also, many people say this: "Far Cry has minimal improvement with SM3.0, therefore 3.0 isn't that important."
No, Far Cry was built with 1.1 and 2.0. A game built with a heavy reliance on (or great support for) shader model 3.0 will truly show us what it is capable of.
There is an official list of games that support (or will) SM3.0:
Unreal 3engine
Lord of the rings: Battle for the middle earth,
Stalker: Shadows of Chernobyl,
Vampire: Bloodlines,
Splinter Cell 3,
Tiger Woods 2005,
Madden 2005,
Driver 3.0,
Grafan ,
Metal of Honor: Pacific Assault,
Painkiller trough Patch,
Far cry trough Patch.
Half life 2 (sometime)
I will also mention a couple of feature that will make 3.0 look far superior to 2.0.
Displacement Mapping- This is only available with SM3.0 Unlike normal mapping, where the object is not physically changed, but looks like it, displacement mapping actually changes the object. The texture and lighting creates real height on an object. Not only that, but the shadow of that object will show all of the displacement mapping changes. SM2.0 can't do any of that (or at least, not easily)
Full-Speed 32-Bit Color Precision- To be honest, I don't know what this does. But many game developers find it to be important.
Many other websites and magazines (when they did a 6800 vs x800 article) that although the x800 performs better in today's games, the 6800 WILL pull ahead in future games as early as late 2005. They mentioned that SM3.0 will be a must.
For those of us with the 6xxx series, we are set for future games. It is a fact, it came straight from the programers of Unreal Engine 3. Sorry to say, you can't argue with that because I would trust a programmer of that engine over someone who knows a lot less about it.
It seems ATI thinks SM3.0 is important enough to go into the R520 core. So it must be important.
For those of you who think SM3.0 is pointless and should not be a buying factor for the 6xxx series, you are wrong.
BUT, I must add this before you flame me. If you upgrade often, don't worry about 2.0 or 3.0. If you don't (like me) SM3.0 should be enough to make you pick up a 6xxx card now.
I really don't know what point I was trying to get across. It is a mass response to those who disagree with me on my Shader Model 3.0 views. I wanted to get some facts down about it too.
Please discuss in a civilized way with me and others!
I?m still finding even 16bit precision is suitable for most real-time shaders at the moment. I imagine that once people start doing all sorts of crazy procedural material generation within the Shader that 32bit might be necessary, however I think we are still a ways off from there in terms of required hardware speed.
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