SFF S370 Motherboard + WORKING!! IR Keyboard $30 @ Package2You

[rramjet]

I'm lurking here hoping a solution to the IR keyboard is found so I can go ahead and buy this. Since there seems to be tow problems to solve simultaneously (correct hardware/cable connection and the correct windows driver), here is a lead I googled for on IR keyboard drivers:

http://www.driverscollection.com/main.php?file_id=162 this link leads to here:
http://www.btc.com.tw/btc2002_e/keyboard.html

The only IR keyboard is BTC 9116IR - 9116ir.zip driver might work (W2k driver)

 

[rramjet]

One other idea, since this motherboard seems to have all the hardware, just not all the jacks, is the a source for the PC board mounted jacks? I know you can add audio jacks as previously described. How about those integrated PS2 keyboard/mouse jacks on most motherboards? I would expect if we could solder one onto this board we would have the functionality. Same for serial/parallel jacks, etc.

 

[mindless1]

Originally posted by: rramjet
One other idea, since this motherboard seems to have all the hardware, just not all the jacks, is the a source for the PC board mounted jacks? I know you can add audio jacks as previously described. How about those integrated PS2 keyboard/mouse jacks on most motherboards? I would expect if we could solder one onto this board we would have the functionality. Same for serial/parallel jacks, etc.

All the supporting traces and components for ALL the missing ports do (surprisingly) appear to be already in place, it does look like any/all ports could be soldered onto the board.

However, while this would allow use of PS/2 mouse & keyboard, it doesn't necessarily enable use of the IR keyboard. I'm fairly sure that my original speculation, about the pin-locations of the power and ground pins, is correct. If power and ground from (any) port where incorrectly hooked up to a data line instead of the power lines, it's possible that the receiver controller would be damaged. Damage the receiver with an incorrect hookup, and you may NEVER get it working later, even if EVERYTHING was eventually connected/configured correctly.

Unfortunately Holtek seems to have a very selfish interpretation of support compared to many companies, when I search for "HT48R50", I get a link to
this page.

 

[mindless1]

Well, i "seem" to be on the right track with the IR receiver...

I took a fan adapter from SVC, pulled out the plug leads from 5V and 12V on BOTH sides and swapped them, so that the fan plug was getting 5V. Next I used a CDROM audio cable as jumper wire, from fan plug to suspect POWER and GROUND pins on receiver PCB. Then I temporarily connected a 110 Ohm resistor to POWER pin (a substitute for the missing SMD resistor strip I mentioned a few posts ago), and proceeded to test every other empty pin hole on the PCB, to find the pin for the infrared "detection" indicator LED. That pin is the uppermost one in the corner (is ground for the LED through the controller chip). When I press a keyboard key, the LED flashes.

So in other words, keyboard doesn't work with 'puter yet, but we're one step closer, confirmation of power pins, verification that receiver works with keyboard, and the location of IR detector LED. NOw if only i could figure out which port this thing is supposed to use...

Temporary PCB Setup (Original pin header exchanged, new header added)

 

[koulouty]

I know the Via C3 processor is socket 370 pinout compatible, but does anyone for sure know if the C3 will work? THis google cached page here says it will support if with the latest BIOS update, 2.1d.

Can multiplier settings be controlled in the BIOS of this board? An 866Mhz version needs 133 x 6.5. The 700, 100 X 7.5

 

[mindless1]

Originally posted by: koulouty
I know the Via C3 processor is socket 370 pinout compatible, but does anyone for sure know if the C3 will work? THis google cached page here says it will support if with the latest BIOS update, 2.1d.

Can multiplier settings be controlled in the BIOS of this board? An 866Mhz version needs 133 x 6.5. The 700, 100 X 7.5

Yes, it "appears" that the multiplier is adjustable, it's an Award Bios v6.00PG, and in the "frequency/Voltage Control" Page I see a setting "CPU CLock Ratio Jumpless", which shows settings for:

By H/W
3.0/11.0
3.5/11.5
4.0/12.0
4.5/8.5
5.0/9.0
5.5/9.5
6.0/10.0
6.5/10.5
7.0
7.5
8.0

Also the Host/SDRAM/PCI Clock Settings available are:

Default
66/100/33
100/100/33
133/100/33
100/133/33
133/133/33
66/66/33

Note that I'm seeing these settings in the BIOS version 1.2a (as shipped), I haven't updated the BIOS yet. I also do not know if the board would function enough with a C3 installed, to boot and flash bios to newer version, or if you would need an intel CPU to do that prior to installing the C3.

 

[alm99]

Originally posted by: mindless1
Well, i "seem" to be on the right track with the IR receiver...

I took a fan adapter from SVC, pulled out the plug leads from 5V and 12V on BOTH sides and swapped them, so that the fan plug was getting 5V. Next I used a CDROM audio cable as jumper wire, from fan plug to suspect POWER and GROUND pins on receiver PCB. Then I temporarily connected a 110 Ohm resistor to POWER pin (a substitute for the missing SMD resistor strip I mentioned a few posts ago), and proceeded to test every other empty pin hole on the PCB, to find the pin for the infrared "detection" indicator LED. That pin is the uppermost one in the corner (is ground for the LED through the controller chip). When I press a keyboard key, the LED flashes.

So in other words, keyboard doesn't work with 'puter yet, but we're one step closer, confirmation of power pins, verification that receiver works with keyboard, and the location of IR detector LED. NOw if only i could figure out which port this thing is supposed to use...

Temporary PCB Setup (Original pin header exchanged, new header added)

What? I am in no way an engineer

 

[mindless1]

Originally posted by: alm99
What? I am in no way an engineer

Take a look at the Keyboard Manufacturer's Page, you'll see a couple LEDs lit on the receiver picture, and towards the bottom there is a description titled "Specifications of receiver unit IR9703". It lists 4 LEDs, which have locations on the receiver PCB where those 8 unused holes are, perpendicular to the ribbon cable header. I don't know for sure what functions all of these LED indicate, i now know for sure that one is IR reception, the others should be Numlock, Scroll-Lock, and some other function (perhaps Caps lock as on many keyboards, or low battery indicator).

By determining which LED works for recption and figuring out the power pins we know a little more about how to hook it up, and the receiver is functing to show the reception of transmision from the keyboard, via the blinking LED, just not exporting the data to anything yet. Getting a positive ID on the power and ground pins was very important in allowing further testing while (hopefully) preventing frying the controller chip by mistakenly hooking up power and ground to the data lines on the chip.

Because the receiver PCB didn't have the LEDs installed at time of manufacturer, the necessary resistor strip (which limits current from the 5V input for the device, down to a level the LED can use) wasn't placed/soldered onto the board, as a minor, common, cost-saving measure. Having an extra power resistor lying around came in handy to test this.

Whatever port this receiver hooks up to, in order for it to work, that port MUST supply 5V and Ground to the appropriate pints indicated on that picture I linked to, through the ribbon cable or whatever alternate interface cable I might find success with. My next efforts may be to interface this receiver with both PS/2 mouse & keyboard ports... I'll be glad if it works, but this would be unfortunate if everyone needed to solder ports or pins onto their motherboards just to use the IR keyboard instead of just an external cable that swaps a few pin positions around.

However, for my own use I would prefer it interfaced to the PS/2 ports, as this makes the IR keyboard UNIVERSAL, across all OS, needing no drivers except for support of the special-function keys.

 

[Allegro]

Before start soldering into this thing...

Has anybody tried to hook the IR through one of the serial ports? The mb user's guide reads "Note: A second serial port may use some of the resources required by an infrared port or a fax/modem card. If you have more than one of these items installed, you may not be able to use them at the same time. You can use the Pheripherals page of the setup utility to switch rewsources between an IR port and a second serial port. See Chapter 3 for more information." It might be necessary to mess around with the BIOS and perhaps disable any device/port that is not expressly needed to get this thing working.

Remember that there are two serial ports and one aux keyboard bracket (p.33) which are easily accessible through 10-pin IDC connectors.

Again, good luck.

 

[mindless1]

Originally posted by: Allegro
Before start soldering into this thing...

Has anybody tried to hook the IR through one of the serial ports? The mb user's guide reads "Note: A second serial port may use some of the resources required by an infrared port or a fax/modem card. If you have more than one of these items installed, you may not be able to use them at the same time. You can use the Pheripherals page of the setup utility to switch rewsources between an IR port and a second serial port. See Chapter 3 for more information." It might be necessary to mess around with the BIOS and perhaps disable any device/port that is not expressly needed to get this thing working.

Remember that there are two serial ports and one aux keyboard bracket (p.33) which are easily accessible through 10-pin IDC connectors.

Again, good luck.

I tried hooking up the included ribbon cable to the 2nd com port, positioned so that it's unused pins were atop the JP11 "power connector for external modem card", pg. 12 This was the first thing I tried. It's possible that it does plug into a serial port, however, due to the pin orientation on the included ribbon cable, I didn't see how the com port could provide power and ground on adjacent pins across both rows.

I do have another ECS motherboard that has a completely different aux keyboard connector, an 8x2 header which seems a little closer to what's needed, but I can't use that board for testing, it's already sold. IN other words, the receiver may be right for the keyboard, but is the receiver/cable right for the motherboard? This thinkng seems to be a step back to square one, something's defintely not right. Every PCChips et al board I"ve ever seen did at least have the proper number of contacts on all the plug-in cables.

 

[alm99]

I still haven't heard from P2Y abou the email I sent them. I am beginning to think that they are deliberately not responding because they know it doesn't work.

 

[mindless1]

Has anyone soldered PS/2 ports onto their board, managed to get PS/2 keyboard or mouse working?

I soldered PS/2 ports on, can't get standard PS/2 mouse or keyboard to work. Keyboard LEDs flash when system is turned on, but then nothing.

 

[koulouty]

I also do not know if the board would function enough with a C3 installed, to boot and flash bios to newer version, or if you would need an intel CPU to do that prior to installing the C3.

Shoot... you are right. I may have to borrow a cpu temporarily or see if i can write the new image using a chip programmer.

I was trying to track down a 566 celeron. It consumes only 11.8W, but then I read about the 5.7W C3. I want a quiet system: fanless, with booting off a CF card.

 

[koulouty]

Originally posted by: mindless1
Has anyone soldered PS/2 ports onto their board, managed to get PS/2 keyboard or mouse working?

I soldered PS/2 ports on, can't get standard PS/2 mouse or keyboard to work. Keyboard LEDs flash when system is turned on, but then nothing.

Check page 33 in the manual. There is an additional keyboard header, JHD1, right below the ATX power connector. Although not the ideal setup, that maybe another way to connect a keyboard.

 

[mindless1]

I saw that JHD1 keyboard header. but can't find a pinout for it. I have/had other ECS motherboards that required jumpers on their AUX keyboard headers to enable use of the PS/2 ports, but these were headers with far more pins IIRC, and I've already tried quite a few jumper positions on that header....

Heh, its' one problem after another with this motherboard/keyboard. Maybe I'll just ignore the motherboard and test the IR keyboard with a (different) old junk motherboard for the time being.

Edit: Unless I shorting something, the following is the pinout for the JHD1 header. It's a direct connection to the PS/2 port, so since my PS/2 port isn't working, I don't see how the JH1 could work. Either something is missing on the motherboard, there is some BIOS or jumper settting I can't find, or perhaps I fried somehting? Motherboard still seems 100% functional otherwise, execpt that neither PS/2 mouse or keyboard work with the standard oort I soldered on. I checked continuity on the pins, none seem shorted, no broken traces noticed.



JHD1 (possible) Pinout
______
| 2 4 6 |
| 1 3 5 |
---------

Pin Function
------------
1 - clock
2 - +5V
3 - Clock
4 - Data
5 - Ground
6 - Data

 

[mindless1]

I noticed that with the original bios v1.2a, there are options for asynchronous memory bus, but after I flashed BIOS to more recent version, the asynchronous (+33) settings are gone (actually hidden). AFAICT, BIOS version 1.2a is the only version with the possiblity to run 66MHz FSB and 100MHz memory bus.

The newer BIOS versions seem to only show memory bus settings synchronous to FSB, 66, 100, or 133 MHz.
However, hidden within the BIOS are a few more settings, listed below. There is the possiblity that the revision 2 motherboard uses a different PLLIC and so some of the following choices aren't really supported, but I have confirmed that our (revision 1) boards DO support 2.5 divisor, the 83/83/33 setting works fine for me.

Hidden BIOS Clock Settings

FSB MEM PCI
66 66 33
100 100 33
150 100 33
133 133 33
66 133 33
100 133 33
100 150 33
83 83 33
90 90 33
95 95 33
95 126 33
112 112 33

I have modded the v2.1d BIOS to show, allow selecting these hidden settings (note that when i tried some of them, I did have to unplug power supply to turn system off, then short CMOS clear jumper to get system POST with defaults again.

Also in modded BIOS linked below are further changes to the "Default" configuraton:

[*]Halt on Error - NONE
[*]USB Keyboard Enabled
[*]Processor Serial Number Disabled
[*]Modem Disabled

Use at your own risk!

Modded BIOS

 

[mindless1]

Partial success using IR keyboard. I still haven't gotten the motherboard's PS/2 ports working, so I attached IR receiver to another motherboard. Hooked up through the PS/2 Keyboard port, the IR keyboard WORKS!

Pins on the receiver header for PS/2 Keyboard:
(Pin numbers on PCB itself, ribbon cable connector needs "+6" added to below pin numbers for correct pin).

Pin 5 - PS/2 Keyboard Clock
Pin 7 - PS/2 Keyboard Data
Pin 9 - +5V
Pin 10 - Ground

On the PS/2 port, this needs no drivers, no special coniguration, not even windows. I haven't had a chance to check the pointer yet, it might take more time to figure out, especially if it's not PS/2. I haven't tested range or special function keys or anything else yet, haven't even booted to windows with it yet.

Am I right in assuming that if i were to take a std DOS boot disk, throw mouse.com onto it and call it from autoexec.bat, it "should" work for a standard PS/2 mouse? Well, i guess that's easy enough to check...

PS/2 & AT Keyboard Plug Pinout

Due to it being Thanksgiving maybe no more testing/info today.

 

[alm99]

Originally posted by: mindless1


Partial success using IR keyboard. I still haven't gotten the motherboard's PS/2 ports working, so I attached IR receiver to another motherboard. Hooked up through the PS/2 Keyboard port, the IR keyboard WORKS!

Pins on the receiver header for PS/2 Keyboard:

Pin 5 - PS/2 Keyboard Clock
Pin 7 - PS/2 Keyboard Data
Pin 9 - +5V
Pin 10 - Ground

On the PS/2 port, this needs no drivers, no special coniguration, not even windows. I haven't had a chance to check the pointer yet, it might take more time to figure out, especially if it's not PS/2. I haven't tested range or special function keys or anything else yet, haven't even booted to windows with it yet.

Am I right in assuming that if i were to take a std DOS boot disk, throw mouse.com onto it and call it from autoexec.bat, it "should" work for a standard PS/2 mouse? Well, i guess that's easy enough to check...

PS/2 & AT Keyboard Plug Pinout

Due to it being Thanksgiving maybe no more testing/info today.

How did you attach do another mb through the PS/2 ports? The receiver mounts directly to the mb.

 

[rramjet]

Since most of you have had to set the BIOS to use a USB keyboard, perhaps that is interfering with using the IR keyboard which seems to be emulating a PS2 keyboard???

 

[mindless1]

Originally posted by: alm99
How did you attach do another mb through the PS/2 ports? The receiver mounts directly to the mb.

I cannibalized a worn out Ps/2 keyboard for it's cord, then soldered 1/2 pin headers to it's leads... NOT the configuration I'll end up using, just the easier way to keep swapping pins till I found a combination that worked. EVERY PS/2 keyboard or mouse has these 4 ( +5v, gnd, clock, data) signals so for my final configuration I'll probably just pull the guts out of an old mouse, mount the receiver in that (unless I find something more decorative/interesting to mount it in.

Doing that instead of mounting it into the system chassis will allow me to leave the chassis hidden with just the mouse-receiver (or whatever) atop the TV set or wherever I'll end up with optimal IR reception. I don't know what the maximum length is for a PS/2 cord, but I've seen typical length devices used with 10' extension cords so obviously there is some latitude.

It's kind of ironic that while I have it working on a PS/2 port, I can't get the motherboard's PS/2 ports to work. If I just messed up MY motherboard's ports and the rest of you still have working ports, see the JHD1 header pinout I listed a few posts ago, that "should" work execpt that the shipping ribbon cable connector won't fit, and due to it's construction you can't just saw it into a smaller connector or it won't clasp on one side. Super-glue might be the ghetto way to keep it together, but for anyone with a soldering iron I think attaching a Ps/2 cord's leads direct to the PCB (or carefully opening up the ribbon cable connector that fits the receiver) might be a neater solution, or just directly soldering it.

 

[mindless1]

Originally posted by: rramjet
Since most of you have had to set the BIOS to use a USB keyboard, perhaps that is interfering with using the IR keyboard which seems to be emulating a PS2 keyboard???

I tried that, disabled USB keyboard, still can't get PS/2 keyboard OR mouse to work... There is certainly the possibility that my experimentation has damaged the keyboard controller circuitry. I didn't think I had done anything to damage it at the time, but if other people can get theirs working...

I still haven't tried connecting IR receiver directly to the JHD1 header, I'll try that when I get a chance.

 

[mindless1]

I now have IR Keyboard's Mouse Stick, a la PS/2 Mouse, working too. As expected, when I attached a second PS/2 cord (plugged into PS/2 Mouse port, of course), tested a few pin combinations, I have both functions working in Win98 but it's OS independent, should work in any enviroment supporting PS/2 (heh, my !@#$% ECS motherboard still isn't one of those environments).

Updated Pinout:

PCB
Pin Confirmed Function
-----------------------
1 -None- (red wire on ribbon cable)
2 -None-
3 -None-
4 Ground - Not Neeeded for PS/2 Kbd/Mouse
5 Data Port PA3 - PS/2 Keyboard Clock
6 Data Port PA1
7 Data Port PA2 - PS/2 Keyboard Data
8 Data Port PA0
9 Power +5V
10 Ground
11 Data Port PA7 - PS/2 Mouse Clock
12 Data Port PA5
13 Data Port PA6 - PS/2 Mouse Data
14 Data Port PA4

 

[sativen]

Theoretically, this should work if we get the pins mapped out for that aux keyboard connection.
We should have 2 pins for power and ground, 2 pins for keyboard clk/data, and 2 pins for mouse clk/data......... so it may just come down to rewiring a ribbon cable with some one or two pin connections for the motherboard side, as that aux keyboard connection is pretty tight between caps and the ATX power.

Mindless1, you may be a genius. Thanks for spending the time figuring out this crap. I would help but my school project is due in 4 days, then finals start. In fact, I'm on my way to the lab right now........ Happy thanksgiving everyone.

 

[alm99]

mindless could you post some pictures of what you did?

 

[fxsts]

Great find, mindless

I used to have some aux PS/2 cables for AT motherboards, but I could not find any in my closet. I guess that I got rid of them together with AT boards I sold. I thought that I might be able to use it to check the pin lay out of the JHD1 aux keyboard header.

Knowing that you can use Y-splitter for to use PS/2 mouse and keyboard together (i.e. IOpener), if we found the right pin combination of the JHD1 and combine those 10 pins into 6, both keyboard and mouse should work together.