Sex, dating, marriage, and the bible

[rockyct]

Originally posted by: SagaLore

I invite you to put together a solid argument using scripture in its proper context. The verse needs to be direct about what activity is acceptable, and it needs to be spoken by Jesus.

I invite YOU to put together a solid argument using scripture in its proper context. So far you only seem happy with loosely relevant passages and yet you cry "out of context" when you are presented with much more Biblically sound passages. At this point, I am not replying for you, but for any young Christians who may read this and genuinely want to seek the truth regarding this matter. My message to them is this: question what your pastor says, question what your parents say, and question what could be considered church doctrine. Read the Bible with an open heart and look at what God's word is trying to say. Church doctrine often does not mesh completely with the Bible. I tend to disagree with the church link above in some ways, but only after searching for myself. Questioning God's word is not bad at all. It has strengthened my relationship with God and given me a solid foundation for my beliefs. God will give you understanding if you seek it from Him.

 

[IceBergSLiM]

Originally posted by: rockyct

Originally posted by: IcebergSlim
the bible was re-written and re-translated so many times it is purely fiction at this point. its not meant to be taken literally.

Actually, that's not the case. Every time a new translation is created, they translate it directly from the thousands of original manuscripts pieces they have, some as old as 100-200 AD. Now, there is actually a section of John that did not appear in the earliest manuscripts (John 7:53-8:11). Most Bibles will directly tell the reader like this website where verse 53 begins http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John%207&version=31

With the exception of this passage, the manuscripts agree very closely to each other and the fact that there are around 6,000 Greek manuscripts, only strengthens the validity of the Bible. Disregard it if you like, but not because of translation issues.

I can write a book right now that could easily be interpreted in a completely different way by someone living 100 years from now. Mostly because word meanings and usage evolve and change constantly. Also the intent and tone behind the words can be a guessing game as well. Then take into acount some languages are missing exact equivalents. Its just too much discrepency.

 

[thepd7]

Originally posted by: sao123

Originally posted by: angminas
Looking for things in the Bible so you can make things look a particular way is completely against the entire purpose of the book, unless you're doing it to show how somebody else's doing it is foolish. (Proverbs 18:2) Haven't you seen enough people misuse scripture yet? (2Cor11:12-15) Will you follow the example of unwise men rather than righteous men? (Proverbs 12:26) Don't you have more respect for God than to use his gift in this manner? (Proverbs 3:5-7, 24:9)

As you already seem to know, there are plenty of places in the Bible that say sexual activity before marriage is NOT okay. Will you ignore those clear warnings, and invite other Christians to join you? You're playing with fire. (Matthew 5:19) If you really are a Christian, you are being tempted. "Therefore submit to God. Resist the devil and he will flee from you." (James 4:7)

For anyone who actually wants to learn more about what the Bible has to say on the subject, here is a very well-written article on my church's website.

WOW... um... err...
I personally think it is good to not have sex before marriage... but um...
your church believes that holding hands, hugging, and kissing will all lead to definate pre-marital sexual activity??? I completely disagree with your church on this subject.

There is not a specific line of something that is/isn't acceptable, it is all about your heart and what you are thinking about when a certain action is going on. The reason I say heavy petting is obviously not God's will is because it is not humanly possible to be involved in heavy petting and not be thinking impure thoughts.

 

[Rastus]

Blessed are the technical virgins, for they shall...

 

[SagaLore]

Originally posted by: thepd7
The reason I say heavy petting is obviously not God's will is because it is not humanly possible to be involved in heavy petting and not be thinking impure thoughts.

How is it you equate God's Will with purity? Jesus spent a lot of time telling people to stop comparing each other based on purity. Explain to us why any sexual activity with someone is impure. If two consenting adults are enjoying each other, and take full responsibility for their actions, is it really bad?

 

[3chordcharlie]

Originally posted by: Rastus
Blessed are the technical virgins, for they shall...

Looks at your sig

What's his/her name?

 

[Krakn3Dfx]

The most important scripture to remember, from the banned Book of Mario, Chapter 4, Verse 9:

"Not Married? Thou art to do it in the butt, and avoid all manner of childly creation. Amen Beavis. Amen."

 

[Alphathree33]

How about we have this same discussion in another thread using only Douglas Adams quotes?

 

[TehMac]

Originally posted by: brandonbull
It's a shame that the Bible and other religious teachings have been twisted in order for people to gain control over their fellow man.

If the bible did not exist, I bet you humans still would have recognized an overlord.

 

[angminas]

Originally posted by: sao123

WOW... um... err...
I personally think it is good to not have sex before marriage... but um...
your church believes that holding hands, hugging, and kissing will all lead to definate pre-marital sexual activity??? I completely disagree with your church on this subject.

It didn't say hugging and kissing would definitely lead to sexual activity, as in, if you put your arms around someone you're always going to get naked. That's absurd, and I'm not sure why you phrased it like you did if that perhaps was not what you meant. It said they WERE sexual activity if used with the wrong thoughts or taken to the wrong level. It also said that tempting each other is not what God wants or commands. I can expand this if you are interested.

Holding hands is less intimate, and it's not so much about being sexual activity. It's about respect for yourself, others, and God. That part I don't understand as well, so I'll let the church speak for itself.

 

[GeneValgene]

..

 

[angminas]

Originally posted by: SagaLore

I invite you to put together a solid argument using scripture in its proper context. The verse needs to be direct about what activity is acceptable, and it needs to be spoken by Jesus.

I think I already did, and I know my church did. You're not looking for the truth, you're using God's word as a plaything. You try to set limits on what parts of the Bible are acceptable to quote from, as if you have the authority to do so. There's a lot more truth in the Bible than on ATOT, so your search here suggests what you're really after. I could go on and on, but if my first post and the scriptures I quoted didn't give you pause, it doesn't look like it would do any good to repeat the process.

I caution anybody interested in Christianity to carefully consider the motives behind this thread. I'm always available to talk about the Bible and point you to people who know it better than I do.

 

[SagaLore]

Originally posted by: angminas
I think I already did, and I know my church did.

You paraphrased a few verses, then linked to a site. Come on now, do some real work.

 

[OpenThirdEye]

Rev 22:20 - "Surely I come quickly..."




Yeah...ripped that from Puscifer... It's a song...and a shirt!

 

[rockyct]

Originally posted by: SagaLore

Originally posted by: thepd7
The reason I say heavy petting is obviously not God's will is because it is not humanly possible to be involved in heavy petting and not be thinking impure thoughts.

How is it you equate God's Will with purity? Jesus spent a lot of time telling people to stop comparing each other based on purity. Explain to us why any sexual activity with someone is impure. If two consenting adults are enjoying each other, and take full responsibility for their actions, is it really bad?

God's will IS pure. I honestly don't know how you believe you are a Christian if you believe otherwise. Jesus spent a lot of time saying not to follow the letter of the law, but to instead follow the spirit of the law. We cannot be pure alone, but Jesus makes us pure. It is clear from the passages mentioned on the first page that God intended sex to be a uniting of two people. When you "unite" with someone who is not your wife, you are abusing the gift that God gave. Sex is not just an action; is a much deeper connection between two people.

You seem to have already decided what you believe by ignoring Scripture. That is your choice, but I strongly warn you against deceiving another person who is trying to follow God's word. If this thread is about trying to convince your gf, she is not a consenting partner. You are trying to manipulate her.

 

[jagec]

Originally posted by: SagaLore
Many passages in the bible do a pretty good job at letting us know sex before marriage is wrong (by christian moral perspective). There is also a lot against any sexual acts - even simply lusting for someone but not touching is considered sin.

The Bible forbids adultery, lust, and "sexual immorality". At least, the English translation. I'm unsure of the meanings of the original words, since I speak neither Hebrew, Greek, or Aramaic.

The definitions of the latter two are somewhat ambiguous. I tend to think that it forbids premarital sex, but some would argue that such an act does not fall under "sexual immorality" in all cases.

There are similar debates on petting and homosexuality. It's simply not as clear as most people seem to think.

Originally posted by: SagaLore
I invite you to put together a solid argument using scripture in its proper context. The verse needs to be direct about what activity is acceptable, and it needs to be spoken by Jesus.

You're not going to find it.

 

[engineereeyore]

Originally posted by: sao123

Monogamy wasnt required until the new testament.

I never said monogamy was. It's rather obvious in several stories from the Bible that polygamy was practiced by many individuals.

 

[sao123]

Originally posted by: engineereeyore

Originally posted by: sao123

Monogamy wasnt required until the new testament.

I never said monogamy was. It's rather obvious in several stories from the Bible that polygamy was practiced by many individuals.

Better re-read what you wrote...

Originally posted by: engineereeyore
Other than that, you have the early Jewish law that required that if a man dies his brother (if single) is required to marry his brother's wife and provide her with seed.

Wonder where that idea came from? There was no such stipulation.

 

[thepd7]

Originally posted by: SagaLore

Originally posted by: thepd7
The reason I say heavy petting is obviously not God's will is because it is not humanly possible to be involved in heavy petting and not be thinking impure thoughts.

How is it you equate God's Will with purity? Jesus spent a lot of time telling people to stop comparing each other based on purity. Explain to us why any sexual activity with someone is impure. If two consenting adults are enjoying each other, and take full responsibility for their actions, is it really bad?

I didn't say any sexial activity is impure, but if you are petting and you aren't married, you are thinking about that woman impurely and Jesus says specifically that you have already committed adultery if the impure thoughts are in your head.

God's will is for each of us to be close to him and be free from sin. Jesus did tell people to stop comparing each other based on works but he didn't say stop trying to be pure and holy. That means don't compare and think you are better than your brother because you believe you are more pure. You should still strive for purity in mind and spirit.

In the eyes of God, yes, if 2 consenting non-married adults are "enjoying" each other that is bad.

None of this is me telling anyone what to do, btw, I am not here to judge. I am only trying to explain what the Bible says about this subject.

 

[SagaLore]

Originally posted by: rockyct
God's will IS pure.

Thats fine, but you need to define purity. Is sex impure?

You seem to have already decided what you believe by ignoring Scripture.

You misunderstand the point of this thread.

 

[DrPizza]

Originally posted by: HotChic
Huh, this is the second time in two days this question has been asked to me, interestingly enough.

I think that you could probably extrapolate a lot from the Old Testament examples if you tried hard enough and took enough things out of context. The problem is, there's simply no wiggle room in the New Testament at all.

NT example:
1 Cor 7:9 But if they cannot control themselves, they should marry, for it is better to marry than to burn with passion.

That doesn't mean they can't have casual sex... that's some real wisdom there... let them be married for a couple months and the honeymoon phase will wear off.

 

[sao123]

Originally posted by: SagaLore

Originally posted by: rockyct
God's will IS pure.

Thats fine, but you need to define purity. Is sex impure?

You seem to have already decided what you believe by ignoring Scripture.

You misunderstand the point of this thread.

Sex itself isnt impure... uncontrolled desire for sex is impure. This desire must be controlled until the proper time to act upon it.

also, you didnt respond to my posting of Deut 22 above. Does this not apply virginity until marriage?


However I should point out my gut feeling...Arguing technicalities against the bible, isnt exactly in the "spirit of the laws set forth"
The question seemingly is... how far can i push the line without offending God, to the point where he considers me a sinner.
A true christian is supposed to be seeking after things of God, and forsaking desires of the flesh.

 

[SagaLore]

Originally posted by: sao123

Originally posted by: SagaLore

Originally posted by: rockyct
God's will IS pure.

Thats fine, but you need to define purity. Is sex impure?

You seem to have already decided what you believe by ignoring Scripture.

You misunderstand the point of this thread.

Sex itself isnt impure... uncontrolled desire for sex is impure. This desire must be controlled until the proper time to act upon it.

also, you didnt respond to my posting of Deut 22 above. Does this not apply virginity until marriage?

As much as Deut 22:11 applies to fashion:

"Never wear clothes made of wool and linen woven together."

A true christian is supposed to be seeking after things of God, and forsaking desires of the flesh.

Have you ever eaten bacon? Shrimp? That is also forbidden per Deut 14.

 

[Steve]

It's not premarital sex if you're not planning to get married.

 

[sao123]

Originally posted by: SagaLore

Originally posted by: sao123

Originally posted by: SagaLore

Originally posted by: rockyct
God's will IS pure.

Thats fine, but you need to define purity. Is sex impure?

You seem to have already decided what you believe by ignoring Scripture.

You misunderstand the point of this thread.

Sex itself isnt impure... uncontrolled desire for sex is impure. This desire must be controlled until the proper time to act upon it.

also, you didnt respond to my posting of Deut 22 above. Does this not apply virginity until marriage?

As much as Deut 22:11 applies to fashion:

"Never wear clothes made of wool and linen woven together."

A true christian is supposed to be seeking after things of God, and forsaking desires of the flesh.

Have you ever eaten bacon? Shrimp? That is also forbidden per Deut 14.

You completely avoided the point of my post...

Someone who is supposedly seeking after God is not going to test the "grey areas"...