Seven-out-of-ten adults are okay with Gitmo treatment

[JustAnAverageGuy]

Originally posted by: Taggart

Originally posted by: Czar
would you advocate putting US citizens to the same "coercion tactics" ?

no

What about people from for example Canada, France, Germany, Mexico, Sweden and other western countries?

If the information would prevent another 911 from happening, yes.

Quite the double standard. US citizenship prompts different interrogation methods!

What if it were a US citizen that held the information vital to "preventing another 911"? Their citizenship would prevent the government from emplying the same "coercion tactics".

 

[Taggart]

Originally posted by: JustAnAverageGuy

Originally posted by: Taggart

Originally posted by: Czar
would you advocate putting US citizens to the same "coercion tactics" ?

no

What about people from for example Canada, France, Germany, Mexico, Sweden and other western countries?

If the information would prevent another 911 from happening, yes.

Quite the double standard. US citizenship prompts different interrogation methods!

What if it were a US citizen that held the information vital to "preventing another 911"? Their citizenship would prevent the government from emplying the same "coercion tactics".

I will think about your question. You are right to say it is a double standard.

 

[dahunan]

BTW, Hitler also convinced average Germans to
COOK Human Beings who were Jewish
Experiment on them like human Guinea Pigs
starve them to death and make them walk naked
choke them to deah with GiftGas


I wonder what you would be doing if you were a German in the early 1940's?

 

[bjc112]

I think they are treated Better than they deserve.

 

[rickn]

I have an idea for population control. when all them spaces currently held by terrorist open up, we need to find them 7 out of 10 americans and send em there. I'd like see how long a northerner could survive in Cuba mid summer with no A/C

 

[imported_Condor]

Originally posted by: Tom
How about a poll asking Americans if they really know what is going on a Gitmo ? And how they know.

My issue is about legal rights, I do not know if there are legal representatives for the detainees, that are not part of the military or the government, but if there are not then that means it's not a proper system for a country with a Constitution like ours.

Legal rights pertinent to what law? They aren't signatories to any that I know of except the Koran and we are treating them way better than is proscribed in it. Since that is the only law they obey, if we applied their law, we could kill one and all according to their reading of it.

 

[cKGunslinger]

Originally posted by: dahunan
BTW, Hitler also convinced average Germans to
COOK Human Beings who were Jewish
Experiment on them like human Guinea Pigs
starve them to death and make them walk naked
choke them to deah with GiftGas


I wonder what you would be doing if you were a German in the early 1940's?

godwin's law - you lose - have a nice day

 

[imported_Condor]

Originally posted by: rickn
I have an idea for population control. when all them spaces currently held by terrorist open up, we need to find them 7 out of 10 americans and send em there. I'd like see how long a northerner could survive in Cuba mid summer with no A/C

It has only been in the last fifty years that AC has been all that common in the United States. The whole of my childhood, there was never AC, not even in the schools. The windows were opened and the breeze was great. We only use the AC now when it is ov er 85 or 90 depending on humidity. You must have really been spoiled as a child. Try surviving in a Chicago brownstone in July or in the Mississippi Delta. You are whining about people from the hottest deasert in the world being without AC? Get real!

 

[dahunan]

Originally posted by: cKGunslinger

Originally posted by: dahunan
BTW, Hitler also convinced average Germans to
COOK Human Beings who were Jewish
Experiment on them like human Guinea Pigs
starve them to death and make them walk naked
choke them to deah with GiftGas


I wonder what you would be doing if you were a German in the early 1940's?

godwin's law - you lose - have a nice day

Can we at least try to guess what the OP would be doing if he were a German citizen during Hitler's rise to power?

 

[judasmachine]

Originally posted by: dahunan

Originally posted by: cKGunslinger

Originally posted by: dahunan
BTW, Hitler also convinced average Germans to
COOK Human Beings who were Jewish
Experiment on them like human Guinea Pigs
starve them to death and make them walk naked
choke them to deah with GiftGas


I wonder what you would be doing if you were a German in the early 1940's?

godwin's law - you lose - have a nice day

Can we at least try to guess what the OP would be doing if he were a German citizen during Hitler's rise to power?

Fascism is alive and well, so I've always felt that Godwin's Law was a cop out.

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

Guantanamo Bay in its current iteration is really one of the most massive, least fair abridgements of human rights in the history of this country.

I think using the concentration-camps comparison is unwise, in that it undermines the credibility of the speaker, thereby weakening his argument, but I understand the temptation to say these things.

We are a country founded on basic human rights and freedoms (indeed, we have the oldest written Constitution in the world), and IMO this is one of the main reasons (our vast wealth of natural resources being another) our nation has been so successful. Gitmo is really an abortion in this respect.

If the theory is that these people are enemy combatants, they should have been released at the end of open hostilities (at least those seized in Afghanistan) - that's what the Geneva Conventions require. If the theory is that they are unlawful combatants, they should be charged with murder, perfidy, spying, whatever, and prosecuted. Many of these people have been there for 3 1/2 years with no opportunity to talk to a lawyer!

There's a reason the Constitution requires a speedy trial - it's simply unfair to hold someone indefinitely without charges. Many of these men are guilty of nothing more than defending their country from a foreign attacker. It's just absurd to hold them this way. This is obviously exacerbated by the abuses at Gitmo (where Specialist Sean Baker was beaten to within an inch of his life while posing as a detainee) and elsewhere - scores of detainees (including the 4-star-general equivalent who was the head of the Iraqi Air Force, whose death of blunt force trauma has been ruled a homicide) have died in American custody since 9/11.

I think history will look very unkindly on Gitmo, because it's worse, IMO, than even the Japanese internment camps.

IF this poll is accurate (the Rasmussen Reports are notoriously biased toward conservatism), it just shows that a) ignorance is bliss; and b) the Bush administration's insistence on secrecy has been successful.

 

[cKGunslinger]

Originally posted by: dahunan

Originally posted by: cKGunslinger

Originally posted by: dahunan
BTW, Hitler also convinced average Germans to
COOK Human Beings who were Jewish
Experiment on them like human Guinea Pigs
starve them to death and make them walk naked
choke them to deah with GiftGas


I wonder what you would be doing if you were a German in the early 1940's?

godwin's law - you lose - have a nice day

Can we at least try to guess what the OP would be doing if he were a German citizen during Hitler's rise to power?

Sure, write down your suggestions on a 3x5 notecard and mail to:

NobodyGivesAFlyingFvck Inc.
Attn: Dr. Use-Less Hyperbole
123 Played-Out Rhetoric Drive
Walla Walla, WA 12345

:thumbsup:

 

[cKGunslinger]

Originally posted by: judasmachine

Originally posted by: dahunan

Originally posted by: cKGunslinger

Originally posted by: dahunan
BTW, Hitler also convinced average Germans to
COOK Human Beings who were Jewish
Experiment on them like human Guinea Pigs
starve them to death and make them walk naked
choke them to deah with GiftGas


I wonder what you would be doing if you were a German in the early 1940's?

godwin's law - you lose - have a nice day

Can we at least try to guess what the OP would be doing if he were a German citizen during Hitler's rise to power?

Fascism is alive and well, so I've always felt that Godwin's Law was a cop out.

Fascism may be alive and well, but not every subject that you personally disagree with is truly analogous to the torture and murder of 6 Million Jews.

 

[judasmachine]

Originally posted by: cKGunslinger

Originally posted by: judasmachine

Originally posted by: dahunan

Originally posted by: cKGunslinger

Originally posted by: dahunan
BTW, Hitler also convinced average Germans to
COOK Human Beings who were Jewish
Experiment on them like human Guinea Pigs
starve them to death and make them walk naked
choke them to deah with GiftGas


I wonder what you would be doing if you were a German in the early 1940's?

godwin's law - you lose - have a nice day

Can we at least try to guess what the OP would be doing if he were a German citizen during Hitler's rise to power?

Fascism is alive and well, so I've always felt that Godwin's Law was a cop out.

Fascism may be alive and well, but not every subject that you personally disagree with is truly analogous to the torture and murder of 6 Million Jews.

You do have a point there. So we'll call it 50/50. 🙂

 

[imported_Condor]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

Originally posted by: Condor

Originally posted by: dahunan

Originally posted by: judasmachine
How do call yourself a christian, and support torture, and inhumane treatment of human beings? Aren't you forgetting one of Jesus's most important lessons?

You sir are disgracing your savior!

He doesn't care

He really doesn't

He would follow George Bush straight to hell... as long as it gave him an identity

You ignorant liberals have no idea what torture actually is. You also have no idea how Gtmo is being managed. You just read liberal propaganda and react. No matter how depraved the actions of the terrorists, you still cheer them.

You are a stupid terrorist, Condor, and in my world would be put away just so you couldn't breed.. Be glad the freedoms you wish to destroy still have you beyond my reach.

The mods should ban you for that threat!

 

[judasmachine]

both of you knock it off before you both get banned. this isn't the time or place.

back on topic: we have all heard that they have no 'public' reason for keeping them all there, and subjecting them to (i'll tone down) questionable interrogation methods. there have been men released and flown back to Afgahnistan and promised a compensation for there time, and never paid. i'll try to find the link but it was the subject of a Nightline episode. if this were any other government we'd be all over it.

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

Originally posted by: Condor

Buddy, let me tell you. If I were within your reach, you would either be peaceful and nice or not a problem at all. Been there, done that! By the way, the mods should ban you for that threat!

Didn't you just threaten him back? 😕

 

[cKGunslinger]

Originally posted by: judasmachine

Originally posted by: cKGunslinger

Originally posted by: judasmachine

Fascism is alive and well, so I've always felt that Godwin's Law was a cop out.

Fascism may be alive and well, but not every subject that you personally disagree with is truly analogous to the torture and murder of 6 Million Jews.

You do have a point there. So we'll call it 50/50. 🙂

I'm willing to accept those terms.. for now. :beer:

 

[Pepsei]

Seven-out-of-ten adults are okay with Gitmo treatment

er, depends, are you in it?

 

[imported_Condor]

Originally posted by: DonVito

Originally posted by: Condor

You ignorant liberals have no idea what torture actually is. You also have no idea how Gtmo is being managed. You just read liberal propaganda and react. No matter how depraved the actions of the terrorists, you still cheer them.

The story of Specialist Sean Baker gives us at least a clue.

These are a part of controlling killers. Looks to me from the link that Second Lt. Shaw Locke is the problem. The grunts thought this was real and that the prisoner had ignored spray. That meant that he was too tough for normal treatment. The Lt should be courts marchalled! I would have done the same thing in the place of the guard team under the same conditions. The leader has to define the drill and has to be sure that everyone is aware that it is a drill and the Lt failed to do that. What can you do when you get officers with inadequate abilities?

 

[rickn]

Originally posted by: Condor

Originally posted by: rickn
I have an idea for population control. when all them spaces currently held by terrorist open up, we need to find them 7 out of 10 americans and send em there. I'd like see how long a northerner could survive in Cuba mid summer with no A/C

It has only been in the last fifty years that AC has been all that common in the United States. The whole of my childhood, there was never AC, not even in the schools. The windows were opened and the breeze was great. We only use the AC now when it is ov er 85 or 90 depending on humidity. You must have really been spoiled as a child. Try surviving in a Chicago brownstone in July or in the Mississippi Delta. You are whining about people from the hottest deasert in the world being without AC? Get real!

Deserts are dry. You've obviously never been to the Caribbean, I have. Comparing Chicago to Cuba, that's a laff and a half

Oh, and I'm native Floridian, lived here most of my life. I know all about heat and humidity

 

[imported_Condor]

Originally posted by: DonVito

Originally posted by: Condor

Buddy, let me tell you. If I were within your reach, you would either be peaceful and nice or not a problem at all. Been there, done that! By the way, the mods should ban you for that threat!

Didn't you just threaten him back? 😕

No

OOPS! It could have been distorted to sound that way to the uninformed. I went back and fixed it. I was actually referring to the couple of beers and nice, nice people we would become with my natural charm in person. I'm very diplomatic, you know. His was definately a threat though.

 

[imported_Condor]

Originally posted by: rickn

Originally posted by: Condor

Originally posted by: rickn
I have an idea for population control. when all them spaces currently held by terrorist open up, we need to find them 7 out of 10 americans and send em there. I'd like see how long a northerner could survive in Cuba mid summer with no A/C

It has only been in the last fifty years that AC has been all that common in the United States. The whole of my childhood, there was never AC, not even in the schools. The windows were opened and the breeze was great. We only use the AC now when it is ov er 85 or 90 depending on humidity. You must have really been spoiled as a child. Try surviving in a Chicago brownstone in July or in the Mississippi Delta. You are whining about people from the hottest deasert in the world being without AC? Get real!

Deserts are dry. You've obviously never been to the Caribbean, I have. Comparing Chicago to Cuba, that's a laff and a half

Oh, and I'm native Floridian, lived here most of my life. I know all about heat and humidity

I know that 104 degrees is a lot hotter than 85 to 90 even with a RHI of 10%. Gtmo is on the coast and gets a good breeze and the temp seldom reaches a hundred. Everytime I have been in Havana, it has been comfortable. By the way, Castro definately does not provide AC for the rest of the residents of the island.

 

[wirelessenabled]

Originally posted by: Stunt
Do a poll asking how many americans would agree with going to prison without being charged.
I bet the 7 in 10 would be drastically less.

I have no problems with these people getting charged with crimes and sent to prison...but damn, Gitmo is totally un-democratic.
If 7 in 10 think the prisoners are getting treated how they deserve, 7 in 10 americans are Fvcking Stupid.

:thumbsup:

I would add that it is what, in the pre-Bush day's would be called un-american. Of course now we have a different set of ground rules much to the detriment of our democracy.:frown:

 

[StormRider]

Originally posted by: DonVito
Guantanamo Bay in its current iteration is really one of the most massive, least fair abridgements of human rights in the history of this country.

I think using the concentration-camps comparison is unwise, in that it undermines the credibility of the speaker, thereby weakening his argument, but I understand the temptation to say these things.

We are a country founded on basic human rights and freedoms (indeed, we have the oldest written Constitution in the world), and IMO this is one of the main reasons (our vast wealth of natural resources being another) our nation has been so successful. Gitmo is really an abortion in this respect.

If the theory is that these people are enemy combatants, they should have been released at the end of open hostilities (at least those seized in Afghanistan) - that's what the Geneva Conventions require. If the theory is that they are unlawful combatants, they should be charged with murder, perfidy, spying, whatever, and prosecuted. Many of these people have been there for 3 1/2 years with no opportunity to talk to a lawyer!

There's a reason the Constitution requires a speedy trial - it's simply unfair to hold someone indefinitely without charges. Many of these men are guilty of nothing more than defending their country from a foreign attacker. It's just absurd to hold them this way. This is obviously exacerbated by the abuses at Gitmo (where Specialist Sean Baker was beaten to within an inch of his life while posing as a detainee) and elsewhere - scores of detainees (including the 4-star-general equivalent who was the head of the Iraqi Air Force, whose death of blunt force trauma has been ruled a homicide) have died in American custody since 9/11.

I think history will look very unkindly on Gitmo, because it's worse, IMO, than even the Japanese internment camps.

IF this poll is accurate (the Rasmussen Reports are notoriously biased toward conservatism), it just shows that a) ignorance is bliss; and b) the Bush administration's insistence on secrecy has been successful.

Don,

Are you serious? Over 110,000 Japanese Americans were sent to these camps. And their only crime was being of Japanese ancestry.

The equivalent of this would be sending all Muslim Americans into Gitmo just because they are Muslim.

I personally think they should be treated as prisoners of war and afforded all rights of the Geneva convention. But this war isn't over so I think it's okay to still hold them. As we've seen in Iraq, these fighters go everywhere to fight. If we release them in Afghanistan, we'll probably catch them back later in Iraq.

I've never seen this characteristic in other groups before. I have never seen Catholics or Protestants in other countries wanting to go to Ireland to fight and help their brothers.