Setting up a HTPC / extender / free TV / PVR / etc. system

[CU]

Looking at building a PVR. At the minimum it needs to record what comes in through the coax in the wall from Comcast. Prefer HD for local if it is there. May switch to OTA later. Other features that I want that can be built into the HTPC, in an extender, or a Blu-ray player are Blu-ray/DVD playback, netflix, DLNA support and maybe hulu. For netflix I would like to be able to not just play from my queue, but also search for stuff to play. For some reason that last part seems harder to find.

Hardware:
I would like to keep this on the cheap side. I have an old Northwood P4 1.8ghz will run at 2.2ghz and a PVR-150. Thought about using that to record SD or HD if I get another tuner. It could play SD, but not HD. Would an AGP ATI 4000 or 3000 make it capable of playing HD? Or, use an extender like SAGETV's to play back the content including the live TV stream. Can other extenders play back live TV streams, and show the EPG? Can any Blu-ray players do that, because that would be perfect?

OS/Software:
I have XP and Vista (probably to slow of a system) I could use. I also don't have a problem with linux, but that would push netflix to an extender or Blu-ray player. What software (mediaportal, mythtv, etc) and extenders support live TV streams and EPG like what SAGETV offers?

Of course if I like the set up I will build a newer faster lower powered system, and get an HD tuner or two. A stronger system would also allow me to use play on to try out some more free streaming TV options. Basically this is to get my feet wet without spending several hundred dollars.

 

[Carlitos714]

with windows media center you can add nexflix to it and it makes it so easy to find what you want to watch.

i got a C2D E8400, C2D E6850 and a ASUS P5QL-CM mobo that I want to get rid of. I currently the e6850 with a ASUS P5E-VM HDMI and the e6850 handles anything i throw at it. if interested let me know if you want to upgrade. wouldnt bee too expensive to upgrad. pm me if interested.

good luck with your build!

 

[Modelworks]

A P4 is not going to cut it for a HTPC. I tried that with a 3ghz p4 and it just wasn't fast enough , even with an new ATI AGP card. Processing HD video recordings takes a fair bit of cpu power. You can do it with slower machines but be prepared to be very patient.

Honestly if you want to keep the cost down I would get a set top box. There are several out that will do everything you want except record video . There are even ones that do video but the price is much higher.

That is what I did. I put the tv tuners in my main pc and use windows media center for recording. Media Center can record without it running as the main program so you can keep doing whatever you usually use the pc for.

For set top boxes the WDTV Live Plus is the current one I recommend. It plays all the popular formats and netflix as well and cost about $120.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...-593-_-Product

You can also play the tv you record on it by just running a simple program that converts the files in about 2 minutes.


If you can afford about $400 to spend on a dedicated pc then that may be better if you want more options but for the price the set top boxes can't be beat.

 

[CU]

When you say processing HD you mean transcoding to a different format, not playing correct? Also an atom plus ion can play HD, so I would think a 3ghz P4 would, with help from a GPU of course. It takes very little cpu to record HD and stream them to a client correct?

Anyway I like the set top boxes. Part of the reason I like SageTV is the set top box. I have looked at the WDTV Live Plus and using MythTV to record TV. But I like that fact that SageTV's set top box can stream live TV and access the server for EPG and setting up recordings for not much more. Plus I feel that SageTV is more dedicated to it than WD since that is there main focus. Win7 plus xbox 360 arcades ($150) also looks like they could do what SageTV does? Can anyone list the pros/cons of SageTV + SageTV HD Theater vs Win7 + xbox 360 arcades. The ability to play xbox games means nothing to me. I have a back log of PC games.

 

[CU]

Oh yeah, my main pc is in a room without any cable outlets, so I cannot put the tuners there.

 

[poofyhairguy]

A Pentium 4 CAN play 1080p, just not with AGP, AMD or Windows. You need Linux+a PCI 8400 GS from Nvidia and you can play any 1080p file on the planet.

Add in a HDHomerun, MythTV and XBMC and I think you have exactly what you want.

 

[CU]

Why can AMD's GPU play 1080p with a P4? Hardware or Software problem? Also why PCI (not express) instead of AGP?

MythTV as the server and XBMC as the client I assume. Can XBMC stream live TV from MythTV along with other PVR functions and access EPG? Why do I need both, why not just MythTV or XBMC?

 

[poofyhairguy]

Why can AMD's GPU play 1080p with a P4? Hardware or Software problem?

Mostly software problem. AMD's Linux drivers super suck. Nvidia has VDPAU for Linux, which is the backend I use to play Blu Rays on my ION box (about as powerful as a P4) daily.

Also why PCI (not express) instead of AGP?

Because there is no VDPAU capable AGP card. Nvidia never made one. The AGP slot is now worse than PCI.

By the way, make sure you get a 512mb 8400 GS. The 256mb one isn't enough. Here is a link to one:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814133245

Why do I need both, why not just MythTV or XBMC?

You don't.

In fact, I take back my MythTV recommendation. The best path is to just use XBMC and TVheadend (they are integrated):

http://forum.xbmc.org/showthread.php?t=51945

Then you get everything- EPG, PVR, HD playback- all from the best HTPC interface on the planet (XBMC).

Don't get a HDHomerun either. Chose from one of these cards:

http://www.linuxtv.org/wiki/index.php/ATSC_PCI_Cards

 

[electroju]

Another option and probably easier is use a Mac Mini 2010 with Elgato products. The Mac Mini 2010 is small and uses as much power as a notebook computer. Since you want to still use Netflix, Mac will be the best option. It is probably the most expensive compared to what you have in mind for a new HTPC. I am thinking getting the Mac Mini 2010 instead of building the following setup that will run Linux.

http://secure.newegg.com/WishList/PublicWishDetail.aspx?WishListNumber=19954268

Yes Linux is a good option to use as an HTPC, but I recommend it as a second choice after Mac. Windows will be a third choice because setting up the computer to use the video card to decode video files can get complicated. Any program in Windows have to support your video card to decode video files if you want this feature. There are a lot hurdles that you have to go through to set it up. In Linux, your video card have to support VA-API or VDPAU because all media players in Linux already supports it. Media players in Linux have two sets of video codecs. One is software and other is video card specific. If you want your video card to decode the video, you have to specify the codecs for VA-API or VDPAU.

Video capture internal cards depends on the driver support. In Windows, driver support for video capture devices is a 50 to 50 chance that they work or do not work. Not all manufactures makes good software. In Linux, it is different because the drivers or modules are unified. If you are using PVR cards in Linux, you will need to find the right firmware for the module version that you are using.

PCI is not faster than AGP. AGP is faster than PCI. PCI Express is better than AGP because PCI Express includes the ability to send and receive data at the same time. Also PCI Express is scalable for more bandwidth.

The nVidia GeForce8 8400 is not to handle video decoding high resolution files and interlace content. I suggest go for a GeForce GT250 because it handle interlace content and any high resolution video files. It also includes the ability to decode XVid and DiVx. It is best to pick video cards that are passive cooled for HTPC.

Pentium 4 uses a lot of power compared to other systems. If you do not mind a year round heater in your room while watching TV or movies, then you can use it.

The Silicon Dust HD Homerun is good if want to capture local channels because these channels are usually unencrypted. Internal video captures are not always the easiest to setup. Some have a trouble tuning into channels.

ATI in any operating system does not work well. It just poorly written software. It is best to use 3rd-party software with ATI hardware.

Using a computer to playback DVD and Blu-Ray movies does not work well. Computer's video output is 24-bit. Movies have more color than this, so you are missing a lot of information. The audio is another problem depending what program that you use. The digital audio might be mangled and the audio will sound as good as it should. Digital audio may not be reliable for watching a movie, so not a good option to watch movies. It is best to use a stand alone unit for this because even the cheap ones are better than the computer. Using a computer for a PVR is the best option for computers.

 

[CU]

After reading about the pci 8400gs it looks like it will play 1080p fine. Nice to know. I can move it to the next system since it is PCI instead of AGP. XBMC and TVheadend seem nice. Need to do some more reading up on TVheadend's integration with XBMC. I loose netflix and cheap dedicated extenders (although can't the xbox do this?). As for netflix a dedicated blu-ray player with netflix support would work, or maybe one day netflix will support linux.

Do you recommend any particular dual tuner from that list?

 

[CU]

Any advantage in getting a 9400 or 9500 PCI over the 8400 with regards to video playback? Will any old sound card with digital out work for getting 5.1 to a receiver?

 

[CU]

Looks like the 8400gs is better than the 9400 and 9500 for video playback based on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nvidia_PureVideo#Nvidia_VDPAU_Feature_Sets

Also after looking at XBMC and TVheadend they are not that integrated. Please tell me if I am wrong and point me to some screenshots that show the EPG or something. Also what makes XBMC and TVheadend better than just MythTV? Also found MythBox for XBMC which looks nice if I want to use XBMC.

 

[poofyhairguy]

Looks like the 8400gs is better than the 9400 and 9500 for video playback based on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nvidia_PureVideo#Nvidia_VDPAU_Feature_Sets

Not 100 percent;. The 9500 wins a little with deinterlacing, like what you experience with Live TV. Look here for info:

http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/VDPAU

Honestly though I think the 8400 will work great.

Also after looking at XBMC and TVheadend they are not that integrated. Please tell me if I am wrong and point me to some screenshots that show the EPG or something. Also what makes XBMC and TVheadend better than just MythTV? Also found MythBox for XBMC which looks nice if I want to use XBMC.

XBMC is moving full steam ahead on a PVR branch. The PVR branch is built on TVheadend instead of MythTV. I personally don't like this, as I like MythTV, but that is the future.

The EPG guide is coming along - now its a pluggin- but its about to be part of the main tree.

Mythbox is ok, I have used it for a while. But its not been updated for Confluence, and its future seems sketchy. I actually use it for now, but I plan to switch to TVheadend as soon as I sell my HDHomerun (I am just waiting to see if it MIGHT get supported).

I have confirmation from the XBMC developers- TVheadend is getting all the emphasis so that is why I recommend it. One last option is VDR:

http://www.yavdr.org/

 

[poofyhairguy]

Will any old sound card with digital out work for getting 5.1 to a receiver?

Yeah. I like my diamond sound cards for Linux:

http://www.diamondmm.com/XS71DDL.php

As for netflix a dedicated blu-ray player with netflix support would work, or maybe one day netflix will support linux.

I think getting Netflix from a Blu Ray player is the best bet. Its what I do. The Linux Silverlight future seems rocky.

Do you recommend any particular dual tuner from that list?

Hauppauge cards are the favorite in the Linux community so they get the most support.

 

[poofyhairguy]

Another option and probably easier is use a Mac Mini 2010 with Elgato products. The Mac Mini 2010 is small and uses as much power as a notebook computer. Since you want to still use Netflix, Mac will be the best option. It is probably the most expensive compared to what you have in mind for a new HTPC. I am thinking getting the Mac Mini 2010 instead of building the following setup that will run Linux.

I tried this first. Plex rocks compared to XBMC for streaming sites, but EyeTV SUCKS at being controlled by remote.

The Linux route is better.

Using a computer to playback DVD and Blu-Ray movies does not work well. Computer's video output is 24-bit. Movies have more color than this, so you are missing a lot of information.

Linux XBMC has VDPAU color correction.

The audio is another problem depending what program that you use. The digital audio might be mangled and the audio will sound as good as it should. Digital audio may not be reliable for watching a movie, so not a good option to watch movies.

Not true. In Linux + XBMC I have 8 channel PCM sent via HDMI to my receiver working perfectly.

Your information is about six months behind.

 

[CU]

I looked at XBMC's PVR branch and TVheadend. It looks like it will be very nice when done. But I don't really want to run a non RC build. A buggy build would kill the WAF. So, I think I am going to go with MythTV for the back/front end for now. Besides the cool confluence theme what else am I losing by going with MythTV, features, etc? I cannot find a good feature comparison list between the them.

Also SageTV seems to be sold out of their set top boxes and have been for awhile now. So, they may be coming out with something new soon.

 

[Fallen Kell]

I would spend a little cash and build a dedicated box for this. If you don't need bitstreaming HD audio (for blu-ray), you can get by with just about any CPU and a $50-100 Nvidia graphics card for playback of HD material.

I would start at the following thread for hardware options and recommendations to get an idea of what to expect:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=18816470#post18816470

For Comcast HD, there are really only 2 choices, Hauppauge HD-PVR or Centron Cablecard. The Hauppauge will have the advantage of being able to record any show/channel you get and save it in a non-DRM'ed file that can be played back on any device. The disadvantage is that it requires a cablebox and is slightly lower picture quality than the Cablecard solution. The Centron also requires Windows7 only, and as stated, some video may not be able to be shared to other devices or transcoded to other formats (personally I have a HD-PVR).

I use mediaportal for my frontend. However, I do not use it to schedule my recordings (I use SageTV for that since I have owned a copy of it for 6 or 7 years now, with just a small upgrade fee to the latest versions... it has subscription-free media guide information and a very good scheduler system which lets me simply say record show "XYZ" and it will worry about finding the stations or times, and I can say only record new shows, or repeats, or any, or HD only, etc.).

It is extremely easy to integrade Hulu, Netflics, internet radio, etc., into Mediaportal as well as use specific software to playback different types of files (or just use the built in players).

Mediaportal Demo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pL2rS72_cpA

 

[sactoking]

I would spend a little cash and build a dedicated box for this. If you don't need bitstreaming HD audio (for blu-ray), you can get by with just about any CPU and a $50-100 Nvidia graphics card for playback of HD material.

Instead of buying a $50 processor and a $50-100 video card, just spend $115 on an i3-530 Clarkdale. It costs less, uses less power, and gets you bitstreaming for the future. If you go with something like a 5450, you also partially lose support for MPEG-2 and VA Interlacing.

 

[CU]

I will buy a faster machine that requires less power later. This is just to see how it works, and use it for awhile.