Server recommendations

[ochadd]

I work for a midsized company that has pretty limited hardware requirements on a per server basis. We have 6 servers at the main location with a total of 21 active spindles not including hot spares.

1 server = 3x36GB 15k RAID 5 sets (SQL server, PDC, file)
1 server = 3x36GB 15k RAID 5 sets (SQL server)
1 server = 3x146GB 15k RAID 5 set (SQL), 2x74GB RAID 1 (OS)
1 server = 2x80GB RAID 1 (Terminal server)
1 server = 4x160GB 7k RAID 5, (SQL, file, misc) 2x80GB RAID 1 (OS)
1 server = 2x80GB RAID 1 (Misc, BDC, print)

We have about 800GB total used storage. There is 14GB of memory in play, very little unused. There are 14 cores between them as well, most sitting idle.

They have been added as needed over the years and every time I look at them on paper I want to build something that can eat them all. There is so much waste from the operating systems, licensing, idle processors, maintenance, and backups.

For under $6000 I can build a server with dual quad core Shanghai processors, 32GB of memory, and 13TB of RAID 6 and a hotspare. Redundant power supplies, backplanes, 4 teamable NICs, and all the good stuff. Licensing wise I think we would be covered but would have to look into that further.

I'd leave a couple servers running as PDCs, DHCP, print, DNS, etc. I don't have any training as far as virtualization goes but I don't believe it would be needed. Just one massive install.

Thoughts or insight on something like this?

 

[Brovane]

Putting everything into one is asking for trouble.

You should probably have 1- SQL server, 1 f&P, 1 Terminal Server.

Usually SQL virtualized is not recommended. Maybe spend money and consolidate SQL down into one server that is beefy. So probably build a new SQL Server and use SQL Standard 64-bit with a 64-bit OS. Then re-use the best of the old hardware to do a F&P and then a TS box and be done with it. F&P and TS is not going to do much of a load but SQL will.

 

[RebateMonger]

Without knowing how "busy" your SQL servers are, it's not really possible to make a recommendation. You are likely going to want a minimum of two boxes, to host the two DCs on separate hardware. Beyond that, it's hard to say without knowing the current disk utilization due to SQL.

With drives so cheap now, and with the write penalty of RAID 5/6, I recommend looking at RAID 1 when you need reliability (and cheap upgrades) and RAID 10 when you need performance combined with reliability.

 

[yinan]

Virtualize all this with 2 hosts for redundancy, best solution.

 

[ochadd]

The SQL servers aren't that busy. Disk queues don't go above 1.5/spindle and they are on three disk RAID 5 sets even though they are 15k rpm. Figured with a 16 drive RAID set that would be plenty to make up for the lack of IO going to slower disks. Knowing that with RAID 6 I can loose any two drives would allow me to sleep better at night. RAID 10 would still be a significant step up from where we are though.

On the subject of SQL. Is there a problem with putting the logs on the operating systems RAID 1 set? Have two partitions set up, one for OS install and the other for log files.

EDIT: At one time I had a drive failure on our main SQL box. Even with a degraded RAID 5 set users didn't seem to notice much of a difference. If this speaks to how busy the SQL servers are.

 

[mooseracing]

Originally posted by: ochadd


For under $6000 I can build a server with dual quad core Shanghai processors, 32GB of memory, and 13TB of RAID 6 and a hotspare. Redundant power supplies, backplanes, 4 teamable NICs, and all the good stuff. Licensing wise I think we would be covered but would have to look into that further.

What are you smoking or are you planning on building this yourself and not having warranty support?


I hate the big companies but you can't beat their warranty for next day or same day parts.

You might even be better off with a SAN or DAS, and lower horsepower server.

 

[ochadd]

Originally posted by: mooseracing

Originally posted by: ochadd


For under $6000 I can build a server with dual quad core Shanghai processors, 32GB of memory, and 13TB of RAID 6 and a hotspare. Redundant power supplies, backplanes, 4 teamable NICs, and all the good stuff. Licensing wise I think we would be covered but would have to look into that further.

What are you smoking or are you planning on building this yourself and not having warranty support?


I hate the big companies but you can't beat their warranty for next day or same day parts.

You might even be better off with a SAN or DAS, and lower horsepower server.

This is the exact reason I have never built a production server myself. It's also the reason I'm stuck with such crappy servers atm.

Unless I can be shown otherwise it's not just a small surcharge for having Dell build and warranty a machine. All the machines I've listed are Dell branded. To get a similiar setup from them I'm looking at $7600 for the MD1000 and another $4300 for the server. After discounts and bartering that's still $11k.

I'm also getting an Areca controller over LSI, 24x7 rated drives over whatever Dell wants to install, and a case that can hold another 6 drives internally if I'd ever need to expand.

Buying $1500 worth of spare parts would net me an extra controller, motherboard, backplane, and three spare drives.

Am I wrong in thinking this is the better way to go?

 

[Viper GTS]

The problem with something like this is that it's not just you. You aren't going to work there forever, & you're never going to successfully transfer the intimate knowledge that you have of the setup to your replacement. Plus (no offense to you) who knows if you actually know what you're doing? Or that your replacement will?

Home-grown stuff like you're contemplating just doesn't belong in a mid-sized company.

Viper GTS

 

[ochadd]

Originally posted by: Viper GTS
The problem with something like this is that it's not just you. You aren't going to work there forever, & you're never going to successfully transfer the intimate knowledge that you have of the setup to your replacement. Plus (no offense to you) who knows if you actually know what you're doing? Or that your replacement will?

Home-grown stuff like you're contemplating just doesn't belong in a mid-sized company.

Viper GTS

Surprising responses. My question to you is what intimate knowledge would be missing? Updating controllers, hot swapping drives, and troubleshooting components shouldn't be a stretch for someone who is supposed to be working on them?

Personally I've never used Dell support for more than parts replacement or equipment returns.

 

[Viper GTS]

Controller makes/models. Drive makes/models. Motherboard makes/models.

Basically when anything bad happens the ability to call Dell and tell them "here's my service tag" is more valuable than the money you saved up front by building it yourself. They'll know exactly what motherboard it has, and they'll have stock to provide you with a replacement. They'll know exactly what drives you have (down to the firmware) and send you a drop-in replacement that matches your existing RAID set.

Do you really want to be chasing down a specific make, model, and revision of some random part when you're down and need a replacement? Dell is your guarantee that you will have a matching part in a timely fashion for the life of the system. Your time (and whoever replaces you) and uptime is more valuable to your company than saving a couple grand up front.

Viper GTS

 

[Denithor]

I think the general consensus here is that it does make sense to consolidate your six current servers into 2-3 boxes total that are expandable for future requirements instead of continuing to just add another server each time you outgrow your farm.

However, my first thought was the same as most here, why would you build it yourself? It kinda makes sense if you plan to stock spare parts & keep extensive documentation covering what you've built. But odds are eventually someone else will be responsible for the system and they're not going to have the intimate working knowledge of what you built. So when a motherboard burns out are they going to know there's a spare in the closet?

 

[Nothinman]

I don't have any training as far as virtualization goes but I don't believe it would be needed. Just one massive install.

I'm of the mind that, within reason obviously, one server should do one job and that's it. Sometimes you have to double up but that should be the exception and not the rule. If you end up debugging a problem with a SQL server that's also your Terminal Server you just started affecting everyone using both services, if SQL is by itself you're only affecting one set of users. And virtualization helps with deployment because now you only have the one set of hardware to worry about, the virtualized set, so all of the servers look exactly the same except for things like the amount of memory and CPU count.

And I'm also of the mind that building your own server is asking for trouble. Things like 4hr response time for replacement parts, etc are well worth the money to most companies. If you need a new hard disk would you rather call Dell and get one a few hours later or would you like to have to run down to the local Best Buy and hope they have one in stock? Or are you going to buy 2 of everything so that you have a spare ready just in case? I also have a general hatred for Dell and would look at HP or IBM, but that's just me.

 

[ochadd]

As much as I would like to build this I've been convinced not to. Atleast not for a production server...
Support for something like this could be too daunting for someone not familiar with the build a few years down the road. Few too many unknowns.

Going for approval for a toned down version as a sandbox we can test things on. Drop 50% of the CPUs, memory, disk drives, and stick with a lesser controller and still come out with something that can be an emergency go-to box if the need arrises. Might just build it on a desktop market motherboard.

 

[mooseracing]

My last server from Dell was a 2950 with C2Q 3.16 single CPU, 8GB RAM in 4 sticks, redundant PSU's, 2x146GB SAS 15k drives, 2x300GB SAS 15k drives, Perc 6i, DRAC card, dual port intel nic, versa rails and whatever other crap they include for $4500 shipped to me, with their 3 year warranty. No haggling, instance price quote from my rep.

Granted the 2950's are only 6x3.5" drive or 8x2.5. I would love to get a SAN or DAS to play with and drop our backup server that is overloaded right now. Like what has been said, that warranty is a piece of mind that you don't have to worry about tracking parts down or wondering how much extra you have to pay to get parts next day and rather or not they will come.