Server Quote - Fair price?

[Shooks]

My friend needs some advice on whether or not a quote is reasonable or not and I have no clue. Was wondering if someone here had any input I could give him. Here is the original email.

yo dude, my dad wants to get a server for his building and got a quote from a company that will purchase and set up the server. here are the specs and the price. is it a decent deal?

INTEL Q6600 QUAD CORE DUO CPU SERVER
ASUS SERVER BOARD
4 GIG DDRII Ecc Registered Memory
128 MEG PCI-EXPRESS 3D SVGA VIDEO CARD
ANTEC TITAN SERVER TOWER W/3-PHASE 650 WATT POWER SUPPLY
3-146GIG 10,000 RPM SCSI HARD DISK DRIVES SETUP IN RAID ARRAY (5 OR 10)
5yr WARR
GIGABIT LAN
20X DUAL LAYER DUAL FORMAT DVD BURNER
Adaptec SCSI CONTROLLER CARD RAID-5
Microsoft Windows Server 2003 Standard w/ 5CAL (retail $599.00)
Warranty -1 yr Hardware Parts
To upgrade Hard Drives to 300GB add additional $900

TOTAL: $4,500

I don't really know his needs, but is that a fair price for what is listed?

 

[spidey07]

No deal. That's a custom build. DO NOT WANT!

Go to dell or HP.

 

[Shooks]

Thanks for the reply, will let him know to contact HP or Dell

 

[spidey07]

They should also be able to offer installation/setup or there has to be some kind of value added reseller that will give you what you need and have the support.

 

[InlineFive]

Originally posted by: spidey07
No deal. That's a custom build. DO NOT WANT!

Go to dell or HP.

Truer words were ne'er spoken.

 

[Fardringle]

As an example of why your friend should run away from that quote, I just did a quick setup on Dell's Small Business site. This system is similar to the one you listed but it has a Quad Xeon CPU instead of the Core 2 CPU, four 146GB 15K RPM drives instead of three 10K drives, the optical drive isn't a dual layer burner (useless on a server in my opinion) and it has a 3 year next business day on-site warranty (can upgrade to 4 hour same day response for $224) instead of the 1 year parts only warranty. Even with these significant upgrades, it's still over $1200 less than what you quoted.

Note that this does not include any backup options since there wasn't one in the original quote and I wanted to give you a valid comparison to the system you listed. You will probably want to add in a tape backup drive if there is not one already set up on the network where this server will be installed.


(I reorganized the list since it's a bit hard to read when copied directly from Dell's site.)

PowerEdge 840

SYSTEM COMPONENTS
PowerEdge 840 Qty 1
Quad Core Intel® Xeon® X3220, 2x4M Cache, 2.40GHz,1066MHz FSB
Save 30% on PowerEdge 840 Servers through Dell Small Business!
Special Offer - $1,405.74

PowerEdge 840 Quad Core Intel® Xeon® X3220, 2x4M Cache, 2.40GHz,1066MHz FSB

Operating System: Microsoft® Small Business Server 2003 R2 with SP2, Standard Edition
Operating System Addition: 5-pack of Windows® Small Business Server 2003 User CALs
O/S Partition: Maximum Partition Size for MS Windows Factory Installed Operating Systems

Memory: 4GB DDR2, 667MHz, 4x1GB Dual Ranked DIMMs

Primary Hard Drive Controller: PERC 5i SAS internal Raid adapter, PCI -Express
Hard Drive Configuration: Add-in PERC5i (SATA/SAS Controller) which supports 3-4 Hard Drives - RAID 5
Drive Cage Configuration: Chassis with Non-Hot Swap Drives for PE840
Primary Hard Drive: 146GB 15K RPM Serial-Attach SCSI 3Gbps 3.5-in Cabled Hard Drive
2nd Hard Drive: 146GB 15K RPM Serial-Attach SCSI 3Gbps 3.5-in Cabled Hard Drive
3rd Hard Drive: 146GB 15K RPM Serial-Attach SCSI 3Gbps 3.5-in Cabled Hard Drive
4th Hard Drive: 146GB 15K RPM Serial-Attach SCSI 3Gbps 3.5-in Cabled Hard Drive

Floppy Drive: Internal 1.44MB 3.5 inch Floppy Disk Drive
Mouse: Optical Two-Button Mouse, USB, Black
Keyboard: Keyboard, USB
Network Adapter: Onboard Single Gigabit Network Adapter, No TOE
CD/DVD Drive: 48x CDRW/DVD IDE Combo Drive, Half-Height

System Documentation: No Hard Copy Documentation, E-Docs only and OpenManage CD kit
Hardware Support Services: 3 Yr SILVER ENTERPRISE SUPPORT: 7x24 HW/SW, NBD Onsite
Installation Support Services: No Installation Assessment

TOTAL:$3,272.26

 

[spidey07]

To be fair, setup and installation was included in the original quote. What that actually entails is not detailed in the quote. This is where a VAR or hp/dell partners come in hand. Wouldn't be more than probably a single days worth of work for everything to works flawlessly from a professional services perspective. 100 an hour * 8 = 800 dollars of pro services and probably worth it's weight in gold.

Do this kind of stuff and that kind of REAL professional service is more than worth it. Not some guy that shows up and stacks a server and leaves. Professional Services - they show up and when they leave you have exactly what was promised. Not some guy that can build a PC (aka server) somebody that can set everything up for you easily.

Look at landscaping - I can buy plants for cheap, I can even plant them. But I'd much rather have somebody come out, look at the plants I need, place them, plant them and do everything to make sure it looks good. It's exactly the same for small business - they don't care about the total cost, just that you deliver on what was promised.

You see it all the time - some yahoo comes in and slaps a homebrewed server that is a constant headache because it never used skilled labor to do so. Same with networking. When you call a roofer do you ask about the cost of the shingles? NO. Just gimme a well made roof by a professional that knows what he is doing.

 

[Fardringle]

Professional installation would be a good use of part of the $1200 difference between the OP's quote and the Dell price. Spend the rest on a REALLY nice lunch for everyone in the office.

 

[spidey07]

Originally posted by: Fardringle
Professional installation would be a good use of part of the $1200 difference between the OP's quote and the Dell price. Spend the rest on a REALLY nice lunch for everyone in the office.

Newb, you make the vendor/VAR pay for that.

 

[kstornado]

3-146GIG 10,000 RPM SCSI HARD DISK DRIVES SETUP IN RAID ARRAY (5 OR 10)

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't there need to be a minimum of 4 drives for RAID 10? Whoever wrote the quote should actually read what they're quoting before copying and pasting from a website.

You won't go wrong with HP or Dell.

 

[Shooks]

I can't thank you guys enough for the advice, I really appreciate it.

 

[RebateMonger]

The owner should also take a hard look at Microsoft's Small Business Server 2003, which provides a LOT more business features than a straight Windows Server 2003. A "typical" cost of an appropriate Dell server, a hot-swap backup system, the software installation and configuration, and setup of the Domain, email, etc., is in the the $5000 "ballpark".

That'll give you full remote access, an Exchange email system (providing full sharing of email/contacts/calendars/tasks), a flexible internal web site, automated monitoring and reporting, and automated backups.

 

[seepy83]

Originally posted by: RebateMonger
The owner should also take a hard look at Microsoft's Small Business Server 2003, which provides a LOT more business features than a straight Windows Server 2003. A "typical" cost of an appropriate Dell server, a hot-swap backup system, the software installation and configuration, and setup of the Domain, email, etc., is in the the $5000 "ballpark".

That'll give you full remote access, an Exchange email system (providing full sharing of email/contacts/calendars/tasks), a flexible internal web site, automated monitoring and reporting, and automated backups.

And then two years down the road, when your company grows and you want to move to a more robust server infrastructure, you can have a TON of fun trying to upgrade your AD/Exchange/etc environment from SBS to Standard...

 

[spikespiegal]

you can have a TON of fun trying to upgrade your AD/Exchange/etc environment from SBS to Standard...

This is true, and in some situations I would agree with it. However, if the company is small and doesn't intend on a lot of future client growth than SBS will work just fine. SBS is hugely popular in my neck of the woods and can be maintainted by an office MGR with little formal IT experience. I know that's a problem with a lot of you who feel every small business needs an IT dept, and/or will purposefully design their infrastructure to require one. SBS installation doesn't require an MCSE.

No deal. That's a custom build. DO NOT WANT!

Again, yes and no. I've built a lot of custom servers for clients, but *only* because the big vendors like Dell and HP weren't delivering the products we wanted and weren't future proof at the time. This was generally before the Core Duo was available in a mainstream server package and the best bang for the buck was to build your own Opteron rig -vs- waste money on P4 Xeons.

However, you can now generally find Dell SCs and small business HPs based on the Core Duo Xeons for less than a grand. These are great boxes for a small business and pretty darn reliable in my experience. Even better if you actually have a clue and stick with the SATA options, which saves money and upgrade headaches over SCSI-RAID 5.

Professional Services - they show up and when they leave you have exactly what was promised.

VARs are going to bill you for set-up time no matter how you negotiate, and VARs typically add a mark-up on hardware -vs- simply ordering the damn thing yourself and finding a local contractor from a reputable company to set it up.

I've done gigs for Dell through one of the contracting companies I work for, and was astounded how *unprofessional* the projects are run. Dell typically out-sources those functions to somebody else who outsources, and the net qualifications read like a Walmart resume'. Here in the upper midwest VARs are more guilty of setting stuff up and leaving it in half-a$$ shape than non infrastructure focused firms who don't make profit marking up 4U servers. Find a local consulting company to do this and leave Dell/HP reseller marketing out of the equation.

I agree though that this firm needs to be avoided. I'm surprised they didn't offer to install LED fans in the box

 

[RebateMonger]

Originally posted by: spikespiegal
VARs are going to bill you for set-up time no matter how you negotiate, and VARs typically add a mark-up on hardware -vs- simply ordering the damn thing yourself and finding a local contractor from a reputable company to set it up.

Everbody has their own way of buying and billing stuff. For instance, I specify the exact hardware and software and the client (preferably) orders it directly from Dell and Newegg or wherever.

One problem I've seen with non-experts ordering their own stuff without a consultant is that they overbuy. Dell will happily sell them SCSI drives or tape drives or tape backup software when they don't need it.

As has been hinted, there's a whole bunch of information missing to determine whether the quote is a fair price and whether the hardware and software are appropriate for the need. Battery backup? Data backup system? How much existing data? How many client PCs? Is a Domain going to be created and client PCs joined to it?

 

[RebateMonger]

Originally posted by: seepy83
And then two years down the road, when your company grows and you want to move to a more robust server infrastructure, you can have a TON of fun trying to upgrade your AD/Exchange/etc environment from SBS to Standard...

There was no mention of company size. Since they're buying a 5-user license (and no mention of additional licenses) and there's no IT capability at all, my assumption is that we are dealing with less than 30 employees here.

I've never seen a company outgrow an SBS server in two years. That'd have to be an awfully poor job of planning on somebody's part.

 

[jcmuse]

how many clients can sbs handle?

also, abit OT: it seems most of you talk about business size like every person in a company requires a computer. a company can be considerably large with only a small office with people using computers. personally, i use sbs 2003 for a company of around 100 employees. only 15 computers in the business. only 6-7 of them used at any given time. call me crazy, but i use linksys routers and a modest poweredge (p4 2.8, 2gb ddr). email+quickbooks+word/excel file storage is pretty much all we use a server for. I dont see that changing either. i guess my point is, not every business requires a high end "professional" network/server setup, so i think you guys should ask the nature of the business before you start throwing around server/network requirements. just a thought, sorry for going OT.

 

[RebateMonger]

Originally posted by: jcmuse
how many clients can sbs handle?

From a licensing viewpoint, SBS 2003 can handle up to 75 Devices or Users (combined). In theory, you could have one server and one PC and one-thousand Users and cover them all with a single DEVICE License. As long as those 1000 employees only log in using that single compuer, they'd be covered by that single Device License. You can have as many email and user accounts as you want, as long as your devices or users are properly licensed.

From a practical standpoint, the number of users that a single SBS 2003 server can handle is going to depend on a lot of factors like hardware, usage patterns, email volume, applications running, and so on.

 

[JackBurton]

Originally posted by: spidey07
No deal. That's a custom build. DO NOT WANT!

Go to dell or HP.

Exactly!