Server is Slow. What would be best 1st upgrade?

[b4u]

Hi,

I'm looking into a server that is running very slow, and I need some opinions on what upgrade should I do.

The server is an HP Proliant ML110 G4.

Basically:

Intel Xeon Dual-Core a 1.86GHz
512MB PC2-5300 unbuffered DDR2 SDRAM (667MHz) (can take up to 8GB)
HDD 160GB Non Hot-Plug SATA 1.5Gb 7,200 RPM
Windows Small Business Server 2003 R2


The server has 4 Windows XP Pro workstations connected, and makes Domain AD authentication.

It serves as file server, and has MSDE 2000 running. Soon I'll need to upgrade it to SQL Server 2008 Express.

I don't have any monitoring tools installed, and I can tell the system is slow:
- Because when people start working on applications, they access MSDE 2000 databases, and the server disk start to work like crazy.
- On Task Manager -> Performance, I can see that the processor hardly reaches 50%, but PF Usage goes to 1.5GB. When system is not used, it drops to 720MB.

I believe that 512MB is not enough for the server usage, and it starts using HDD which slows things down tremendously.

So thinking about what I should do to improve performance, I thought about urgently upgrade the memory.

Since we are talking about a 32bit OS, and 4 Workstations connected, I thought about going straight to a 4GB RAM (2 sticks of "Kit 1x2GB DDR2 unbuffered HP 2GB PC2-6400").

1# Should this be the best 1st upgrade? Cost is important here, but I believe I can convince the managers to give the cash needed to improve the system, if the gains are seen after the upgrade.
2# Is there any good free tools I can use to better monitor the system?


Thanks

 

[ch33zw1z]

More RAM for sure. 2x1GB may be enough, but if you want to go to 4GB, it couldn't hurt. Make sure it's supported by the mobo first before you buy. Call HP if you have to.

 

[MalVeauX]

Heya,

RAM. RAM. RAM.

The CPU is more than you'll need. Your HDD is ok, but you may even consider getting a 2nd one and housing the page file on that other drive rather than the OS/application drive (primary). Then make sure you adjust power settings to prevent the disk from ever spinning down.

Very best,

 

[lsv]

What they said As much ram as you can afford =)

 

[DaveSimmons]

A development server here running 2003, SQL 2003 and IIS wasn't even working reliably for us with 1 GB RAM, but was much faster and completely reliable with 2 GB.

Upgrade to at least 2 GB, and 4 GB would be better.

 

[b4u]

More RAM for sure. 2x1GB may be enough, but if you want to go to 4GB, it couldn't hurt. Make sure it's supported by the mobo first before you buy. Call HP if you have to.

Yep, it will be HP for sure, I've already checked their site for compatible parts, and I'm just waiting for the prices on my local retailer.

Heya,

RAM. RAM. RAM.

The CPU is more than you'll need. Your HDD is ok, but you may even consider getting a 2nd one and housing the page file on that other drive rather than the OS/application drive (primary). Then make sure you adjust power settings to prevent the disk from ever spinning down.

Very best,

Wow, nice tip for the page file ... I'll surely will look more into this, if budget permits.


Have a few more questions:

1# I'll be upgrading to 4Gb. Since 32bit OS will only use 3.2GB, will I have some kind of performance penalty? I'm almost sure I won't, but asking never hurts

2# Should I go for ECC memory? It would give me error correction ... but it's a difference of about 30€ each stick (I will need 2 sticks of RAM). Probably the current 512MB RAM have no ECC ... but I'm not sure of that either. Should I think about it?


I'm looking forward into bumping the performance sky-rock with 4GB RAM


Thanks for the answers. Keep the opinions flowing

 

[RebateMonger]

2# Should I go for ECC memory? It would give me error correction ... but it's a difference of about 30€ each stick (I will need 2 sticks of RAM). Probably the current 512MB RAM have no ECC ... but I'm not sure of that either. Should I think about it?

Will your HP even work without ECC memory? I don't know the answer to that, but I can't think of any current Dell servers that will even run non-ECC memory.

One very nice thing about ECC memory is that if you have odd problems with the server, you can usually skip the (long) memory test you'd want to do if you didn't have ECC memory. Your server will be down during the memory test. It's pretty reassuring to know that odd crashes and reboots probably are NOT being caused by failing memory.

With pretty much any database program, you are going to want more than 512 MB of memory. Especially with SBS. There's not much reason not to go to 3 GB or 4 GB of ECC memory with Server 2003.

 

[theevilsharpie]

1# Should this be the best 1st upgrade? Cost is important here, but I believe I can convince the managers to give the cash needed to improve the system, if the gains are seen after the upgrade.

As others have said, RAM would be the best upgrade.

However, I would suggest adding another disk as well, if only for fault tolerance.

2# Is there any good free tools I can use to better monitor the system

SBS 2003 is already severely memory limited out of the gate, so I would avoid installing a big performance monitoring suite. Windows performance console provides some fairly extensive performance monitoring, so a 3rd-party application really isn't necessary unless you want fancy reports.

1# I'll be upgrading to 4Gb. Since 32bit OS will only use 3.2GB, will I have some kind of performance penalty? I'm almost sure I won't, but asking never hurts

Unlike the client OS's, Server 2003 allows for the full use of PAE functionality, so all 4GB will be usuable.

2# Should I go for ECC memory? It would give me error correction ... but it's a difference of about 30€ each stick (I will need 2 sticks of RAM). Probably the current 512MB RAM have no ECC ... but I'm not sure of that either. Should I think about it?

The memory in the server is almost certainly ECC (you can use CPU-Z to be sure). In fact, I doubt that the server would even boot with non-ECC memory.

In other words, get ECC

 

[b4u]

I'll better check with CPU-Z to make sure if I have ECC or not.

With ECC memory, what happens when some part of memory get's currupted? Will it cease to work, or will it just re-set data to another memory sector? Like a HDD bad sector being marked for no further usage?

Obviously I will be happy with ECC ... but will it justify adding 60€ for the 4GB? (Guess the answer will be YES )

About compatibility, the HP site shows ECC and non-ECC modules to be compatible. Anyway, the retailer will digger further into this matter, as they are HP resellers.

Thanks for the answers. Keep them flowing ...

 

[RebateMonger]

Windows has extensive performance monitoring tools built in. SBS also has additional automated monitoring and reporting tools that are installed with a couple of mouse clicks from the SBS Management Console. These email daily reports showing server status and errors.

Once extra memory is installed, you can use the Windows performance monitoring tools to determine what the next bottleneck is. It's quite possible it'll be disk access. As already noted, if database access speed is a problem you could consider a separate database disk or disks.

 

[imagoon]

I'll better check with CPU-Z to make sure if I have ECC or not.

With ECC memory, what happens when some part of memory get's currupted? Will it cease to work, or will it just re-set data to another memory sector? Like a HDD bad sector being marked for no further usage?

Obviously I will be happy with ECC ... but will it justify adding 60€ for the 4GB? (Guess the answer will be YES )

About compatibility, the HP site shows ECC and non-ECC modules to be compatible. Anyway, the retailer will digger further into this matter, as they are HP resellers.

Thanks for the answers. Keep them flowing ...

Get ECC. Also expect that you might need registered DIMMs also. I highly recommend buying server parts from the server company. I know Dell is actually competitive with RAM upgrades and has had better prices than Newegg at times (for the same RAM, obviously newegg had cheaper 'other' memory). (no idea about HP) Ask yourself, is the potential for an unstable and crashing server and the time wasted fixing it and repairing it worth the 60 Euro savings? I highly doubt it is.

 

[imagoon]

Unlike the client OS's, Server 2003 allows for the full use of PAE functionality, so all 4GB will be usuable.

No. Only in 2003 Enterprise and Datacenter. SBS is not in that group. The /PAE switch works and enables PAE but it does not allow the OS to exceed 4GB of physical RAM. It only allows it to use certain PAE features. This may or may not allow all 4GB of physical to work though, it really depends on the system board / bios etc.

 

[b4u]

Get ECC. Also expect that you might need registered DIMMs also. I highly recommend buying server parts from the server company. I know Dell is actually competitive with RAM upgrades and has had better prices than Newegg at times (for the same RAM, obviously newegg had cheaper 'other' memory). (no idea about HP) Ask yourself, is the potential for an unstable and crashing server and the time wasted fixing it and repairing it worth the 60 Euro savings? I highly doubt it is.

What you mean by registered DIMMs? Official memories? I'm looking into buying HP parts compatible with this server, as I don't need nor want any issues around it.

Server runs 24/7 for 2 years now, no problem at all ... except for the sometimes slow execution, which is what I want to overcome, starting with 4GB memory.

No. Only in 2003 Enterprise and Datacenter. SBS is not in that group. The /PAE switch works and enables PAE but it does not allow the OS to exceed 4GB of physical RAM. It only allows it to use certain PAE features. This may or may not allow all 4GB of physical to work though, it really depends on the system board / bios etc.

I will not go for more than 4GB, as Windows 2003 SBS does not support more than that (http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa366778%28VS.85%29.aspx#physical_memory_limits_windows_server_2003) and in this case I don't believe I would benefit much more than having "just" 4GB.

But I believe I need PAE enabled for that. I'll stick the RAM and check if it automatically enables PAE (looking if Physical Address Extension appears on System Properties, General tab, after RAM settings). If it displays so, I can be sure that PAE is enabled, and that 4GB will be potentially used. Correct?

My current laptop has 4GB, Windows XP Pro SP2, and "Physical Address Extension" appears on System Properties, without any manual configuration. (My laptop boot.ini has "/noexecute=optin /fastdetect" defined, I've just checked it 2 seconds ago ).

 

[imagoon]

What you mean by registered DIMMs? Official memories? I'm looking into buying HP parts compatible with this server, as I don't need nor want any issues around it.

Server runs 24/7 for 2 years now, no problem at all ... except for the sometimes slow execution, which is what I want to overcome, starting with 4GB memory.




I will not go for more than 4GB, as Windows 2003 SBS does not support more than that (http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa366778%28VS.85%29.aspx#physical_memory_limits_windows_server_2003) and in this case I don't believe I would benefit much more than having "just" 4GB.

But I believe I need PAE enabled for that. I'll stick the RAM and check if it automatically enables PAE (looking if Physical Address Extension appears on System Properties, General tab, after RAM settings). If it displays so, I can be sure that PAE is enabled, and that 4GB will be potentially used. Correct?

My current laptop has 4GB, Windows XP Pro SP2, and "Physical Address Extension" appears on System Properties, without any manual configuration. (My laptop boot.ini has "/noexecute=optin /fastdetect" defined, I've just checked it 2 seconds ago ).

RAM comes in various flavors. Registered mean there are additional chips on the memory DIMMs that buffer the signals from that board. Memory can also be "ranked" which has to do with the way the system see's the RAM. Some servers require registered period. Others will say "requires registered beyond 2 ranks" or something like that. What they are saying is that they system requires buffered (registered) RAM beyond a certain capacity. This often appears on board with 6+ ram slots. So, in the example above (registered above 2 ranks) would mean that you could have 2, 1 rank unregistered DIMMs in the machine or 1, 2 rank DIMM. Any more than that, then *ALL* chips must be registered DIMMs.

1 Rank DIMMs tend to be more costly than 2 Rank DIMMs of the same size. The system may also have a "Rank limit." So even if it has 6 slots, an 8 rank limit server could only have 4, 2 rank chips in it. While it could handle 6 (one in each slot) 1 rank chips. This tends to only matter in the really large sizes though where 4gig 2 ranks would = max 16GB (8 ranks) or 24 gig with 4gig 1 rank DIMMs (6 ranks.)

Follow all that? I know it gets confusing at first.

 

[RebateMonger]

If you enable DEP, /PAE will be automatically enabled. It likely won't make any difference one way or the other. Just don't enable the /3GB switch.

 

[theevilsharpie]

No. Only in 2003 Enterprise and Datacenter. SBS is not in that group. The /PAE switch works and enables PAE but it does not allow the OS to exceed 4GB of physical RAM. It only allows it to use certain PAE features. This may or may not allow all 4GB of physical to work though, it really depends on the system board / bios etc.

I'm aware that SBS is limited to 4GB. However, unlike Microsoft's 32-bit client OS's where PAE functionality is disabled, you can enable PAE on the server to gain access to full 4GB of RAM.

 

[imagoon]

I'm aware that SBS is limited to 4GB. However, unlike Microsoft's 32-bit client OS's where PAE functionality is disabled, you can enable PAE on the server to gain access to full 4GB of RAM.

I have a couple of machines here that beg to differ with you. There is no 100% guarantee it will work. There are some chipsets the will not allow a larger than 32bit memory address space making it impossible to remap the system board devices out of the physical range.

 

[Syran]

Crucial has 4gb DDR2 ECC for this server for $140. You can do that in a 2x2GB or 4x1GB configuration.

I think 2x2GB is probably the best way to go, even if the OS will black hole .5-1GB of it, it's almost the same cost as 2x1GB + 2x512MB to get 3GB the OS would use all of.

 

[theevilsharpie]

I have a couple of machines here that beg to differ with you. There is no 100% guarantee it will work. There are some chipsets the will not allow a larger than 32bit memory address space making it impossible to remap the system board devices out of the physical range.

I'm pretty sure a ProLiant will map the memory properly.

 

[imagoon]

I'm pretty sure a ProLiant will map the memory properly.

His would, however I had to look it up to verify. If I step back to Gen 3 you find units that wouldn't. I find it silly to assume that much without checking.

Manual:

http://h20195.www2.hp.com/V2/GetPDF.aspx/c00789401.pdf

HP ProLiant ML110 G4 Models
Standard Memory
512 MB of PC2-5300 DDR2 SDRAM running at 512 MB with Advanced ECC capabilities Memory installed (1 x 512 MB SDRAM
DIMM).
Standard Memory Plus Optional Memory
Up to 5120 MB memory is available with the optional installation of PC2-5300 un-buffered ECC DDR2 SDRAM DIMM Memory kits.
Standard Memory Replaced with Optional Memory
Up to 8192 MB of memory is available with the removal of the standard 512 MB of memory and the optional installation of PC2-
5300 un-buffered ECC DDR2 SDRAM DIMM Memory kits.
NOTE: The below chart does not represent all possible memory configurations.
NOTE: In memory configurations requiring 2 DIMM and 4 DIMM configurations, the memory must be paired for optimal
performance. This means that DIMMs in slot 1 and 3 have to be identical, in slot 2 and 4 have to be identical. (For example, the
Optional memory configuration shown below)

^ OP that should help you out.

 

[RebateMonger]

With ECC memory, what happens when some part of memory get's currupted? Will it cease to work, or will it just re-set data to another memory sector? Like a HDD bad sector being marked for no further usage?

Not all ECC functions the same. HP advertises "Advanced ECC", for instance.

http://www.communities.hp.com/onlin...tion-on-ddr3-memory-lock-step-technology.aspx
"Normal ECC can correct single-bit errors and detect double-bit errors. HP's term "Advanced ECC" means that the server corrects single-bit errors, detects multi-bit errors, and corrects some multi-bit errors that occur on the same DRAM."

Traditionally, ECC memory works like this:

1) If the module detects a single bit error, it replaces the bit with the correct one using the checksum calculations. A single-bit error likely isn't considered "a big deal" and it's simply corrected (although just a single-bit error would crash a program or the server or damage data).

2) If the module detects more than one bit error, it announces the problem to the BIOS and more drastic action is taken. Exactly what, I'm not sure and may be maker-dependent. It might be as straight-forward as halting the operation of the server.

 

[b4u]

RAM comes in various flavors. Registered mean there are additional chips on the memory DIMMs that buffer the signals from that board. Memory can also be "ranked" which has to do with the way the system see's the RAM. Some servers require registered period. Others will say "requires registered beyond 2 ranks" or something like that. What they are saying is that they system requires buffered (registered) RAM beyond a certain capacity. This often appears on board with 6+ ram slots. So, in the example above (registered above 2 ranks) would mean that you could have 2, 1 rank unregistered DIMMs in the machine or 1, 2 rank DIMM. Any more than that, then *ALL* chips must be registered DIMMs.

1 Rank DIMMs tend to be more costly than 2 Rank DIMMs of the same size. The system may also have a "Rank limit." So even if it has 6 slots, an 8 rank limit server could only have 4, 2 rank chips in it. While it could handle 6 (one in each slot) 1 rank chips. This tends to only matter in the really large sizes though where 4gig 2 ranks would = max 16GB (8 ranks) or 24 gig with 4gig 1 rank DIMMs (6 ranks.)

Follow all that? I know it gets confusing at first.

Wow ... I need to read this answer carefully ...

His would, however I had to look it up to verify. If I step back to Gen 3 you find units that wouldn't. I find it silly to assume that much without checking.

Manual:

http://h20195.www2.hp.com/V2/GetPDF.aspx/c00789401.pdf

HP ProLiant ML110 G4 Models
Standard Memory
512 MB of PC2-5300 DDR2 SDRAM running at 512 MB with Advanced ECC capabilities Memory installed (1 x 512 MB SDRAM
DIMM).
Standard Memory Plus Optional Memory
Up to 5120 MB memory is available with the optional installation of PC2-5300 un-buffered ECC DDR2 SDRAM DIMM Memory kits.
Standard Memory Replaced with Optional Memory
Up to 8192 MB of memory is available with the removal of the standard 512 MB of memory and the optional installation of PC2-
5300 un-buffered ECC DDR2 SDRAM DIMM Memory kits.
NOTE: The below chart does not represent all possible memory configurations.
NOTE: In memory configurations requiring 2 DIMM and 4 DIMM configurations, the memory must be paired for optimal
performance. This means that DIMMs in slot 1 and 3 have to be identical, in slot 2 and 4 have to be identical. (For example, the
Optional memory configuration shown below)

^ OP that should help you out.

That's right, I'm now looking forward to buy 2 sticks of:

2048 MB Unbuffered Advanced ECC PC2-5300 DDR2 (1 x 2048 MB), Dual Rank 432806-B21

The price at the site states 90€ for each one, so it will be 180€ plus VAT. Hope my local retailer keeps the reference price.

Not all ECC functions the same. HP advertises "Advanced ECC", for instance.

http://www.communities.hp.com/onlin...tion-on-ddr3-memory-lock-step-technology.aspx
"Normal ECC can correct single-bit errors and detect double-bit errors. HP's term "Advanced ECC" means that the server corrects single-bit errors, detects multi-bit errors, and corrects some multi-bit errors that occur on the same DRAM."

Traditionally, ECC memory works like this:

1) If the module detects a single bit error, it replaces the bit with the correct one using the checksum calculations. A single-bit error likely isn't considered "a big deal" and it's simply corrected (although just a single-bit error would crash a program or the server or damage data).

2) If the module detects more than one bit error, it announces the problem to the BIOS and more drastic action is taken. Exactly what, I'm not sure and may be maker-dependent. It might be as straight-forward as halting the operation of the server.

Thanks for the info.

So if I get an original HP part, I should be safe to get the "Advanced ECC"?

 

[theevilsharpie]

The 'advanced' functionality of Advanced ECC is provided by the motherboard. Third-party ECC DIMMs that meet HP's specs will also work with advanced ECC.