Seriously, Warhammer 40k Space Marine is a great game

[Bobisuruncle54]

The Space Marines looked to be way taller than the imperial guard peeps.

They're really not:

Space Marines should be about 8ft tall, growing to 9ft or so. Primarchs are supposedly around 12ft tall.

 

[Bobisuruncle54]

A game set during the Horus Heresy period would be cool. Since at the time the Imperium is at its peak, and you could have more elaborate weapons and explain it as one of the many technologies lost in the intervening 10K years.

I would think that the Warhammer cannon would lend itself extremely well to a squad based game a la Gears of War. The first three books, with some minor edits to make it more suitable for a video game, would make for a great game I would think. Then later the attack on Calth would probably be a great source for a game even if it would be yet one more Ultramarines game, and the Blood Angels getting ambushed could be good, finally the Battle of Terra. Even though Black Library is still milking the Horus Heresy book series, it'd take probably 1-2 years, minimum to crank out a game like this.

You could also do a stealth action series, sort of like Thief or even Deus Ex, based around the Alpha Legion.

I would have to say though, that I was a bit underwhelmed by Space Marine. Not even getting into finer points of how the plot differed from "official" cannon, just little things were a bit off. Astartes are supposed to be significantly taller than the average human, so when they're barely taller than the Imperial Guard officer, a woman no less (so would likely be shorter than a man), that was just kind of wrong. And the fact that their armor has some kind of shield... I get it was a gameplay enhancer, but they could have at least said how it was some kind of experimental nano-repair system. And at the end when he goes with the Inquisitor to protect the Guard commander is extremely unlikely considering the Guard is supposed to be disposable troops that can just be thrown into a meat grinder if needed. I also got annoyed with the Ork gretchins who could come up behind you and kill you before you even saw what happened.

IMO I would love a game based on the Officio Assassinorum that would enable you to play as the key types of assassins, which would allow for not only interesting story lines, but also levels that allowed you to see more of the Imperium and other worlds not just battlefields and extremely varied gameplay.

 

[MetalMat]

They're really not:

Space Marines should be about 8ft tall, growing to 9ft or so. Primarchs are supposedly around 12ft tall.

 

[Bobisuruncle54]

That image is woefully incorrect. The armour would never fit due to the angles between the joints and the thickness of the synthetic fiber muscle suit and the armour plating on top.

Space Marines would be very strong, but they would not be massively muscly.

 

[micrometers]

That image is woefully incorrect. The armour would never fit due to the angles between the joints and the thickness of the synthetic fiber muscle suit and the armour plating on top.

Space Marines would be very strong, but they would not be massively muscly.

It is also highly illogical that if you have space ships you'll do "orbital drops" of space marines.

but it's cool as hell.

 

[Bobisuruncle54]

It is also highly illogical that if you have space ships you'll do "orbital drops" of space marines.

but it's cool as hell.

Highly illogical? As in why send down troops when you could just blast the surface with the ship's guns? That answer is easy - resources.

IMO saying that Space marines should look like roided up wrestlers isn't cool, it's dumbing it down. The gene therapy would replace their existing muscle fibers with much more efficient ones, not just give them more of what they have. The armour is much more than just plate too, so why is the armour is thinnest at critical more exposed points such as the thighs? It's just nonsensical and goes into the realm of "too silly" by that point. :awe:

 

[cl-scott]

It is also highly illogical that if you have space ships you'll do "orbital drops" of space marines.

but it's cool as hell.

Not necessarily. We have airplanes, but we still have forces that jump out of planes and parachute in. There might be situations where you would never be able to land a ship, but if you had some kind of orbital insertion method, could get troops on the ground without having to worry about all of them being blasted out of the sky because they're simply going too fast to be tracked by anti-aircraft weaponry. And at least in this game they did explain that the forge world was too valuable for Exterminatus, though they just go and place it under Inquisitorial seal at the end of the game, but then you don't expect great deals of plot consistency from games like this.

But it is a shame that no one seems able to make a decent game/movie/TV show out of this material beyond Dawn of War. This could also make for some cool movies and/or TV shows. The Great Crusade would make for a good MMORPG, you've got the 13 or so Black Crusades where you could have a game centered around Abandon and the Traitor forces to get the "bad guy" perspective. I'd also love to see a Caiphas Cain TV series.

 

[micrometers]

I think it would be expensive, no?

Also, Warhammer has a very good universe, but it might be too evil for most people. Warhammer hasn't proven to be that popular compared to Warcraft or Lord of the Rings.

 

[BladeVenom]

But it is a shame that no one seems able to make a decent game/movie/TV show out of this material beyond Dawn of War. This could also make for some cool movies and/or TV shows. The Great Crusade would make for a good MMORPG, you've got the 13 or so Black Crusades where you could have a game centered around Abandon and the Traitor forces to get the "bad guy" perspective. I'd also love to see a Caiphas Cain TV series.

My understanding is that Games Workshop is excessively greedy and hard to work with.

 

[Fenixgoon]

Not necessarily. We have airplanes, but we still have forces that jump out of planes and parachute in. There might be situations where you would never be able to land a ship, but if you had some kind of orbital insertion method, could get troops on the ground without having to worry about all of them being blasted out of the sky because they're simply going too fast to be tracked by anti-aircraft weaponry. And at least in this game they did explain that the forge world was too valuable for Exterminatus, though they just go and place it under Inquisitorial seal at the end of the game, but then you don't expect great deals of plot consistency from games like this.

But it is a shame that no one seems able to make a decent game/movie/TV show out of this material beyond Dawn of War. This could also make for some cool movies and/or TV shows. The Great Crusade would make for a good MMORPG, you've got the 13 or so Black Crusades where you could have a game centered around Abandon and the Traitor forces to get the "bad guy" perspective. I'd also love to see a Caiphas Cain TV series.

Space Marine was a pretty good movie considering its budget was probably mininmal. GW is notorious for guarding their IP very tightly.

 

[MetalMat]

My understanding is that Games Workshop is excessively greedy and hard to work with.

Games Workshop is indeed greedy as hell, they charge way too much money for their figurines that cost probably 2 cents each to make.

 

[cl-scott]

My understanding is that Games Workshop is excessively greedy and hard to work with.

That wouldn't surprise me really, given how much they charge for ebooks, which they refuse to sell on Amazon, and it's kind of funny when you think about how heavily the Warhammer 40K universe borrows from Dune. I've never read any of the Dune books (yet... they're on my Kindle now) but you read a basic synopsis of some of the books, and if it didn't predate Warhammer by about 10-15 years... But you've got this oppressive empire spanning hundreds of worlds, it's in a bit of technological decline, and I guess along the way one of the characters has to become the god-emperor to lead humanity along this very narrow path of survival, and he eventually dies becoming an icon for people. There's just way too many similarities to be coincidental.

It is a real shame, because they've got a great wealth of material there. The thing that appeals to me is that it's kind of the anti-Star Trek. It's not this happy utopian world where everything works out in the end. It's grim, dark, brutal, and in essence it's about a bunch of people just trying to delay the inevitable for as long as possible. It may not be a huge market, but I think there would be a profitable niche to be tapped there.

 

[Cookie Monster]

My understanding is that Games Workshop is excessively greedy and hard to work with.

Also people would stop buying figurines that are super expensive and just start playing the games!

Ive always wished if they could create a FPS where the lore allows you to use multiple environments (spaceships, spacehulks, frozen landscape, deathworlds, urban cities etc) while the player can start from being a basic scout to spacemarine, get to wear terminator armour/use jetpacks, maybe even pilot a few vehicles (landraiders/landspeeders) + controlling a dreadnought.

Not only that but there are a ALOT of different enemies you can set against the player. So much potential but a big risk as the actual board game sales can take a hit.

 

[DucatiMonster696]

A game set during the Horus Heresy period would be cool. Since at the time the Imperium is at its peak, and you could have more elaborate weapons and explain it as one of the many technologies lost in the intervening 10K years.

I would think that the Warhammer cannon would lend itself extremely well to a squad based game a la Gears of War. The first three books, with some minor edits to make it more suitable for a video game, would make for a great game I would think. Then later the attack on Calth would probably be a great source for a game even if it would be yet one more Ultramarines game, and the Blood Angels getting ambushed could be good, finally the Battle of Terra. Even though Black Library is still milking the Horus Heresy book series, it'd take probably 1-2 years, minimum to crank out a game like this.

You could also do a stealth action series, sort of like Thief or even Deus Ex, based around the Alpha Legion.

I would have to say though, that I was a bit underwhelmed by Space Marine. Not even getting into finer points of how the plot differed from "official" cannon, just little things were a bit off. Astartes are supposed to be significantly taller than the average human, so when they're barely taller than the Imperial Guard officer, a woman no less (so would likely be shorter than a man), that was just kind of wrong. And the fact that their armor has some kind of shield... I get it was a gameplay enhancer, but they could have at least said how it was some kind of experimental nano-repair system. And at the end when he goes with the Inquisitor to protect the Guard commander is extremely unlikely considering the Guard is supposed to be disposable troops that can just be thrown into a meat grinder if needed. I also got annoyed with the Ork gretchins who could come up behind you and kill you before you even saw what happened.

He went with the Inquisitor because he knew he had no choice in the matter and it would of been better to spare the life of the guard commander and spare his surviving squad the dishonor from facing the repercussion of not going.

In addition it was also a matter of him proving his own personal honor and loyalty. Space Marines (especially Ultra Marines) view such matters as being at the forefront of their concerns. Every Space Marine ultimately wants to die fighting in service to the Imperialism so as to join the "God Emperor" when the "End Days" arrive and he rises from his corpse like state to lead the final battle against Chaos and in doing raises from the dead the honored fallen who have been recognized as servants of the Emperium according to the Imperial religious teachings.


As for the scaling issue I agree it was pretty damn disappointing that SM screws up the scaling for Space Marines. However I partially blame GW on this matter for not caring about how others follow the lore that their subsidiary (The Black library) puts out once money gets thrown into their face. The same thing occurred with Warhammer Online and all the lore concessions made by GW at the behest of Mythic who end up putting out a crappy game anyways.

 

[DucatiMonster696]

That wouldn't surprise me really, given how much they charge for ebooks, which they refuse to sell on Amazon, and it's kind of funny when you think about how heavily the Warhammer 40K universe borrows from Dune. I've never read any of the Dune books (yet... they're on my Kindle now) but you read a basic synopsis of some of the books, and if it didn't predate Warhammer by about 10-15 years... But you've got this oppressive empire spanning hundreds of worlds, it's in a bit of technological decline, and I guess along the way one of the characters has to become the god-emperor to lead humanity along this very narrow path of survival, and he eventually dies becoming an icon for people. There's just way too many similarities to be coincidental.

It is a real shame, because they've got a great wealth of material there. The thing that appeals to me is that it's kind of the anti-Star Trek. It's not this happy utopian world where everything works out in the end. It's grim, dark, brutal, and in essence it's about a bunch of people just trying to delay the inevitable for as long as possible. It may not be a huge market, but I think there would be a profitable niche to be tapped there.

40k does not at all borrow anything from Dune. I've read a crap ton of 40k books and all the core Dune novels written by Frank Herbert (the crap written by his son isn't even worth mentioning) and the two plot lines are far from being anywhere similar to each other in overall scope or actual content.

If you do an investigation on 40k you'll quickly realize it is a spin off from the fantasy game but instead taking place in a fantasy setting it takes place in a far flung future. Much of the plot elements are the same but there are also some distinct differences (more so today then in the past when 40k first came out) which also set the two settings apart.

 

[cl-scott]

40k does not at all borrow anything from Dune. I've read a crap ton of 40k books and all the core Dune novels written by Frank Herbert (the crap written by his son isn't even worth mentioning) and the two plot lines are far from being anywhere similar to each other in overall scope or actual content.

If you do an investigation on 40k you'll quickly realize it is a spin off from the fantasy game but instead taking place in a fantasy setting it takes place in a far flung future. Much of the plot elements are the same but there are also some distinct differences (more so today then in the past when 40k first came out) which also set the two settings apart.

I've read quite a few 40K and all the HH (save Fear to Tread) to date. Haven't read any Dune yet, but it most definitely seems like 40K was at least inspired by Dune. I'm not saying that they are necessarily ripping off Dune or anything, any more than any musical group was influenced by other groups that came before them, but there are just way too many similarities to be coincidental. I don't see it as a bad thing necessarily, but it'd be nice if the GW/BL people would kind of remember they're standing on the shoulders of giants, and maybe be a little more willing to work with game developers or even film producers to get a little more exposure to their table top game and books. I had never heard of Warhammer until I was introduced to Dawn of War. Since then I've taken to reading a large number of books, including buying some of those eBundles. I've become a huge fan of Aaron Dembski-Bowden, who is WAY too good an author to be wasted on a dinky little outfit like Black Library, but I'm happy to keep reading his stuff as long as he writes it.

If they were willing to be a little flexible and work with someone to really develop a great game and/or movie, it would likely drive a lot of fresh attention, which might allow them to pay for some slightly better editing.

 

[DucatiMonster696]

I've read quite a few 40K and all the HH (save Fear to Tread) to date. Haven't read any Dune yet, but it most definitely seems like 40K was at least inspired by Dune. I'm not saying that they are necessarily ripping off Dune or anything, any more than any musical group was influenced by other groups that came before them, but there are just way too many similarities to be coincidental. I don't see it as a bad thing necessarily, but it'd be nice if the GW/BL people would kind of remember they're standing on the shoulders of giants, and maybe be a little more willing to work with game developers or even film producers to get a little more exposure to their table top game and books. I had never heard of Warhammer until I was introduced to Dawn of War. Since then I've taken to reading a large number of books, including buying some of those eBundles. I've become a huge fan of Aaron Dembski-Bowden, who is WAY too good an author to be wasted on a dinky little outfit like Black Library, but I'm happy to keep reading his stuff as long as he writes it.

If they were willing to be a little flexible and work with someone to really develop a great game and/or movie, it would likely drive a lot of fresh attention, which might allow them to pay for some slightly better editing.

The HH has many themes going at once. It mostly uses classical themes of hubris, secrecy, ambition, etc. It also has many elements which resemble the biblical story of the fall of the angle Lucifer as God's right hand and most trusted angel. In addition to the war between the Imperial loyalist and those who follow Horus and subsequently Chaos that ensues afterwards which also mirrors this religious theme of "Good" vs "Evil". However the twist here is that "Good" is really a choice between the lesser evils in most cases and in some cases the "Good Guys" have more skeletons in their closets then those who sided with Horus and the forces of Chaos.

I guess you could say that the God Emperor not being a "God" in a true sense (he admits to being a mortal with extraordinary and near god-like psychic powers however) would most resemble the same situation in which Paul Atreides is deified after he is revealed as Kwisatz Haderach and becomes Emperor the universe in Dune. Afterwards however he eventually commits ritual and voluntary suicide by walking into the desert to meet his demise but that is where the similarities end IMHO.

 

[NikolaeVarius]

It's idiotic to say that 40k doesn't "borrow" concepts from Dune. That was the entire point of 40k when it came out, taking ideas from tons of sci fi and making a universe that meshed those ideas well enough until it became something of its own.

Dune was a HUGE inspiration for 40k and has many concepts ripped directly from it.

 

[BladeVenom]

They also get stuff from Starship Troopers: Power suits, and the hive mind bug like race.

 

[Maximilian]

Good news! OP you will not be hearing from my lawyer. It was pretty decent, worth £6 for sure. The jetpack is actually so awesome that i always die a couple of times after its dropped because im still stuck in the im god nothing can kill me! mindset

 

[micrometers]

Good news! OP you will not be hearing from my lawyer. It was pretty decent, worth £6 for sure. The jetpack is actually so awesome that i always die a couple of times after its dropped because im still stuck in the im god nothing can kill me! mindset

It is the best jetpack in any shooter game.