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Serious Questions about Christianity

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Conjur, I am not a Christian. I do not believe in teh Christian God. All I wanted was explanations about their beliefs. I'm perfectly capable of not accepting their answers, but I don't think your thread is appropriate given the context of the discussion. Could you please edit it out? Thanks!
 
Originally posted by: conjur
Originally posted by: Netopia
conjur,

You know, the man specifically asked that this thread be kept on the topic of WHAT CHRISTIANS BELIEVE. Why did you feel motivated to come thread crap? Was it REALLY necessary? Do you not have the control to simply see that you don't agree but not post because it would be inappropriate to do so?

Joe
Click to expand...
Because the OP has admitted he's only read bits and pieces of the Bible. It would behoove the OP to become as educated as possible and understand how the Bible came into existence.

Otherwise, it's like arguing which is more truthful: Star Wars or Star Trek.
Click to expand...


I understand this point and I intend to learn a lot more on this subject, but my fear is your post will bring in a "hey! don't bash christianity"-thing and the whole discussion will devolve. I'm simply asking for explanations based on the Bible.
 
Originally posted by: BlinderBomber
Originally posted by: conjur
Originally posted by: Netopia
conjur,

You know, the man specifically asked that this thread be kept on the topic of WHAT CHRISTIANS BELIEVE. Why did you feel motivated to come thread crap? Was it REALLY necessary? Do you not have the control to simply see that you don't agree but not post because it would be inappropriate to do so?

Joe
Click to expand...
Because the OP has admitted he's only read bits and pieces of the Bible. It would behoove the OP to become as educated as possible and understand how the Bible came into existence.

Otherwise, it's like arguing which is more truthful: Star Wars or Star Trek.
Click to expand...
I understand this point and I intend to learn a lot more on this subject, but my fear is your post will bring in a "hey! don't bash christianity"-thing and the whole discussion will devolve. I'm simply asking for explanations based on the Bible.
Click to expand...
In that case, I'd give the address of a teacher I had my Junior year in High School (a Catholic High School). We had a Scripture class and went over the Old Testament and the New Testament and it was probably one of the better classes I had.

BTW, edited out that post per your request.
 
Originally posted by: conjur
Originally posted by: BlinderBomber
Originally posted by: conjur
Originally posted by: Netopia
conjur,

You know, the man specifically asked that this thread be kept on the topic of WHAT CHRISTIANS BELIEVE. Why did you feel motivated to come thread crap? Was it REALLY necessary? Do you not have the control to simply see that you don't agree but not post because it would be inappropriate to do so?

Joe
Click to expand...
Because the OP has admitted he's only read bits and pieces of the Bible. It would behoove the OP to become as educated as possible and understand how the Bible came into existence.

Otherwise, it's like arguing which is more truthful: Star Wars or Star Trek.
Click to expand...
I understand this point and I intend to learn a lot more on this subject, but my fear is your post will bring in a "hey! don't bash christianity"-thing and the whole discussion will devolve. I'm simply asking for explanations based on the Bible.
Click to expand...
In that case, I'd give the address of a teacher I had my Junior year in High School (a Catholic High School). We had a Scripture class and went over the Old Testament and the New Testament and it was probably one of the better classes I had.

BTW, edited out that post per your request.
Click to expand...


Thanks very much! I agree that you can't rely on one source to form your opinions, but I want to understand the Christian position better and I'm afraid, given the nature of AT, that a post like yours would be taken the wrong way and this whole thing would get out of hand.

Thanks again!
 
Originally posted by: BlinderBomber
Originally posted by: Netopia
What happens to those who don't know about The Lord?

Romans 2:13 For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God's sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous. 14 (Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law, 15 since they show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts now accusing, now even defending them.)
Click to expand...

So as long as pre-Jesus people obeyed the law of god they went to heaven?
Click to expand...

What Paul is pointing out is that one person could have all of the Scriptural writings in the world and know them inside and out, but that doesn't make them "righteous" in God's view. Another person might come from a tribe in the middle of the Jungle and have absolutely no knowledge of Scripture, but not kill or steal because something inside him tells him it's wrong (even if his culture were to say it's ok). It's the person who strives to do what is truly right that God considers to be obedient.

To put it another way, Jesus said that you could condense all of the teachings in the Bible to these two commands:

1) Love God
2) Love others as much as you love yourself

God WANTS us to know Him... He didn't set up some sort of complex system we have to follow.... that's all the junk we've thrown on top of it.

Take Religion for example. Look at all the "customs" and "traditions" we feel are sacred and have to follow. But what does the Bible say about religion?

James 1:27 Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world.

That's a bit different from the way most religions look!

Joe





 
No problem.

I grew up Catholic, raised by Catholic parents who themselves had very strict Catholic parents.

But, I find it so hard now to try and get back to the mindset I had then. I find it difficult to reform my thoughts based upon what I was taught. Sorry I intruded. 🙂
 
Netopia

But how can they love God if they don't know him?

And how does that mesh with the 10 commandments (not to bear false witness)?


Edit: And I would also like to say this is one of the most courteous discussions i have ever participated in on Anandtech, especially considering what is being discussed.

Edit 2: Thanks Conjur
 
Originally posted by: conjur
Originally posted by: BlinderBomber
Originally posted by: conjur
Originally posted by: Netopia
conjur,

You know, the man specifically asked that this thread be kept on the topic of WHAT CHRISTIANS BELIEVE. Why did you feel motivated to come thread crap? Was it REALLY necessary? Do you not have the control to simply see that you don't agree but not post because it would be inappropriate to do so?

Joe
Click to expand...
Because the OP has admitted he's only read bits and pieces of the Bible. It would behoove the OP to become as educated as possible and understand how the Bible came into existence.

Otherwise, it's like arguing which is more truthful: Star Wars or Star Trek.
Click to expand...
I understand this point and I intend to learn a lot more on this subject, but my fear is your post will bring in a "hey! don't bash christianity"-thing and the whole discussion will devolve. I'm simply asking for explanations based on the Bible.
Click to expand...
In that case, I'd give the address of a teacher I had my Junior year in High School (a Catholic High School). We had a Scripture class and went over the Old Testament and the New Testament and it was probably one of the better classes I had.

BTW, edited out that post per your request.
Click to expand...


Conjur,

That was VERY respectful of you and I have to give you a tip of the hat. If all of us (theists definitely included) on here would more often show respect like you just did, this whole community would be a better place!

:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

Joe
 
Originally posted by: BlinderBomber
Netopia

But how can they love God if they don't know him?

And how does that mesh with the 10 commandments (not to bear false witness)?


Edit: And I would also like to say this is one of the most courteous discussions i have ever participated in on Anandtech, especially considering what is being discussed.

Edit 2: Thanks Conjur
Click to expand...

Last things first... I too am blown away by the civility on this thread and especially by what conjur just did to restore it.

Jesus was speaking to Jews when He broke the Bible down into those two commands. Love God, Love Others. Again, the Bible doesn't say that other people will be judged on what they DON'T know, but will be judged on what they did with the knowledge they had.

I'm not sure about your question about false witness and the Ten Commandments, but I think I understand. If you look at the 10 Commandment, they are in two distinct groups: Our relationship to God and our relationship to other people. If you love others, you won't kill them, steal from them, have sex with their spouse, lie about them (false witness).

I'm not sure if that answers the question.

Joe
 
Originally posted by: FlyLice
Why are you guys kissing Conjur's ass?
Click to expand...

For my part, because I've been hanging around AnandTech since '97 and what he just did is just about unheard of and I don't know if I've ever seen anyone be so gracious as he just was. That's why.

Joe
 
Originally posted by: BlinderBomber
Netopia

But how can they love God if they don't know him?

And how does that mesh with the 10 commandments (not to bear false witness)?
Click to expand...
It's not a matter, as netopia was saying, of knowing God in a literal or scholarly manner. It's a matter of deed and belief. The classic "Do unto others as you would have others do unto you." It's putting faith in God above all other things. It's respecting others, sacrificing one's welfare to help others. It doesn't have to be grand gestures, either.

But, to address your 2nd point, if someone just goes through the motions of performing good deeds with an expectation of reward somewhere down the line, that person is being dishonest. Also, you should look more to the Beatitudes instead of the 10 Commandments.

The Beatitudes are, essentially, the New Convenant (New Testament) while the 10 Commandments are part of Mosaic Law or, Old Covenant (Old Testament).


Blessed are the poor in spirit,
for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

Blessed are the meek,
for they shall possess the earth.

Blessed are they who mourn,
for they shall be comforted.

Blessed are they who hunger and thirst for justice,
for they shall be satisfied.

Blessed are the merciful,
for they shall obtain mercy.

Blessed are the clean of heart,
for they shall see God.

Blessed are the peacemakers,
for they shall be called children of God.

Blessed are they who suffer persecution for justice' sake,
for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

Blessed are you when men reproach you,
and persecute you,
and speaking falsely, say all manner of evil against you, for My sake.
 
Originally posted by: conjur
the 10 Commandments are part of Mosaic Law or, Old Covenant (Old Testament).
Click to expand...

that makes them no less potent, though. they are still very much rules of God.
 
If you just think about as one big fairy tale it all makes perfect sense. Kind of like Lord of the Rings.

Got it? Good.

Now enough with the religious discussions! :|
 
Originally posted by: conjur
Originally posted by: BlinderBomber
Netopia

But how can they love God if they don't know him?

And how does that mesh with the 10 commandments (not to bear false witness)?
Click to expand...
It's not a matter, as netopia was saying, of knowing God in a literal or scholarly manner. It's a matter of deed and belief. The classic "Do unto others as you would have others do unto you." It's putting faith in God above all other things. It's respecting others, sacrificing one's welfare to help others. It doesn't have to be grand gestures, either.

But, to address your 2nd point, if someone just goes through the motions of performing good deeds with an expectation of reward somewhere down the line, that person is being dishonest. Also, you should look more to the Beatitudes instead of the 10 Commandments.

The Beatitudes are, essentially, the New Convenant (New Testament) while the 10 Commandments are part of Mosaic Law or, Old Covenant (Old Testament).


Blessed are the poor in spirit,
for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

Blessed are the meek,
for they shall possess the earth.

Blessed are they who mourn,
for they shall be comforted.

Blessed are they who hunger and thirst for justice,
for they shall be satisfied.

Blessed are the merciful,
for they shall obtain mercy.

Blessed are the clean of heart,
for they shall see God.

Blessed are the peacemakers,
for they shall be called children of God.

Blessed are they who suffer persecution for justice' sake,
for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

Blessed are you when men reproach you,
and persecute you,
and speaking falsely, say all manner of evil against you, for My sake.
Click to expand...



just finished a study on them!!
 
Originally posted by: BlinderBomber
Originally posted by: Netopia
What happens to those who don't know about The Lord?

Romans 2:13 For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God's sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous. 14 (Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law, 15 since they show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts now accusing, now even defending them.)
Click to expand...

So as long as pre-Jesus people obeyed the law of god they went to heaven?
Click to expand...

I understand what you're trying to get at.
You are looking for criteria to get into heaven, but that's not how it works.

God does not need us to do anything for him.
He is not looking for actions. He is looking at your heart, and testing your faith.

If you truly love God, you will obey his commands.
i.e. if you loved your wife, siblings, parents, wouldn't you be obedient and do what pleases them, instead of what makes them angry?


To answer your question on how those before Christ "get into heaven", catechism teaches that as long as you believe in the coming of the Savior (God's son), you will be saved.
Well before Christ was even born, there was scripture and prophecy that proclaimed his coming and you were to have faith in God's word.

And naturally, you are to obey God at all times if you love him so that goes without saying.



First Question: The first thing we explored was Judas. Why isn?t his sacrifice considered greater than Jesus?? If you believe he turned Jesus over to the Romans for money (which is what happened, no?) then I guess my question is a little ridiculous but this is how I thought about it. Judas sacrifices Jesus to the Romans and thus Jesus suffers the sins of all humanity and absolves us. Without Judas, this doesn?t happen and all Judas gets in return is an eternal trip to hell. So isn?t sacrificing his soul, unlike Jesus who simply sacrificed his physical body, the greater sacrifice?
Click to expand...

Judas made no sacrifice. He was a sinner and deserved to die.
Jesus was perfect and holy and did not. He served as a sacrifice for all of us.
We are all sinners and deserve death under God's wrath.


Question Four: Is Jesus supposed to come back to earth? And, if so, how, when, and, most importantly, why?
Click to expand...

Nobody knows for sure, but there are "clues" throughout the Bible.
I don't have one handy or know any scripture off the top of my head, but I remember reading about him coming back after all on earth has been preached to (whether they convert/believe or not), which leads me to believe this is not happening in my life time.
But like I said, NOBODY knows.
It could be tonight, it could be 10 years from now.
Which is why we are told, always be prepared for his second coming.
 
Originally posted by: MrDudeMan
Originally posted by: conjur
the 10 Commandments are part of Mosaic Law or, Old Covenant (Old Testament).
Click to expand...
that makes them no less potent, though. they are still very much rules of God.
Click to expand...
True. It just depends on how much focus you want to place upon New vs. Old Testament.

If you want to focus on Old Testament laws then everything must be considered, including the rules of the Levite Priests...I'll stop there as I don't want to get into deconstruction of the Old Testament. 🙂
 
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