Serious question

[Greenman]

I know what the Q in LGBTQ stands for, but I don't understand the meaning. I always thought queer and gay referenced the same people (they did back in the dark ages when I grew up). Obviously I don't understand what the word has come to mean.
Before anyone mentions it, yes, I do live under a rock. Don't knock it till you've tried it.

 

[PJFrylar]

It stands for queer. Maybe you shouldn't vote from under a rock... seems irresponsible.
Edit: I guess read this... https://hrc.org/blog/hrc-officially...MIq8nQofa14gIVQhx9Ch13Rw5eEAAYAiAAEgKRJvD_BwE

 

[Paladin3]

It stands for queer. Maybe you shouldn't vote from under a rock... seems irresponsible.
Edit: I guess read this... https://hrc.org/blog/hrc-officially...MIq8nQofa14gIVQhx9Ch13Rw5eEAAYAiAAEgKRJvD_BwE

Yup. For people who don't identify as gay, lesbian or bi but aren't straight. I always thought it was a bit of a "don't classify me, man" classification.

 

[sactoking]

Having lived several years in Davis, CA it has been my experience that the "Q" can also be interpreted to stand for "questioning."

 

[JEDIYoda]

I thought the Q stood for...querulousnes

 

[DrDoug]

Early Morning Thought: If Christians still did Crusades, since a crusade is typically named for the place the Christians are going to do their crusadin' in then does that mean they would name their crusade against gays the Gay Crusade?

Another thought: Practicing Christianity is a lot like role playing in a game. A really boring, horrible game with a thick book of rules that everyone cites and nobody follows.

 

[TheVrolok]

Similarly related, and to do some self disclosure here, I honestly don't understand gender non binary/fluid. Doesn't make any sense to me. All the rest of it makes sense to me without issue.

 

[Commodus]

Similarly related, and to do some self disclosure here, I honestly don't understand gender non binary/fluid. Doesn't make any sense to me. All the rest of it makes sense to me without issue.

To me it's pretty simple -- it means their gender identity can shift between male and female, and that they may exhibit qualities of both male and female (or neither) to varying degrees. It's harder to pin down precisely because the identities themselves are hard to pin down.

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

Heh, as long as the left remain the loony toons, they will forever continue to add to the LGBTQWTFBBQ bandwagon

 

[TheVrolok]

To me it's pretty simple -- it means their gender identity can shift between male and female, and that they may exhibit qualities of both male and female (or neither) to varying degrees. It's harder to pin down precisely because the identities themselves are hard to pin down.

Sure, I agree that the definition is pretty simple .. but what does it really mean?

I'm confused because "gender" is a social construct. It's not a real thing. What does "feeling manly" mean? I've been a man my whole life and I don't know what it's like to "feel manly."

Exhibit qualities? Like what? I like flowers, I wear a lot of pink (I wear a lot of pastels), I think Ani DiFranco is a great artist and enjoy her music. Does that mean I'm exhibiting qualities of a "female?"

Of course it's hard to "pin down" these things .. because they're not "real."

I spent a few hours casually Googling first hand experiences of genderfluid/non-binary folks, and it just seems like a bunch of vague feelings. I did find one account which struck me, though, here's the link:

https://ravishly.com/im-genderfluid

From the author:

Sometimes I forget I have breasts. Sometimes I miss the penis I have never had. And sometimes, as my girlfriend says, I mistake my period starting for possibly bleeding from my butt because I forget I have periods.

This seems to take things to an entirely different level. I am completely willing to admit that there are things that an individual can simply not understand intimately because of his/her own worldview/experiences/reality/etc. and this may be the case here but I'm not so sure (yet). Thinking you're having rectal bleeding rather than a menstrual cycle because you "forget" you have female reproductive organs? What? I can absolutely understand how feeling that having female reproductive organs is "wrong" or "uncomfortable" or "in-congruent" with identity.. but lack of existence? Does she/he/they (the author states he/she/they accept all pronouns) forget she has arms or legs? Is that equally possible?

It's definitely fascinating, but I this part of the discussion just seems "different" to me. May just be an area for growth of thought.

 

[Greenman]

So there isn't a concrete definition of queer. I'm not so out of touch after all.

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

So there isn't a concrete definition of queer. I'm not so out of touch after all.

As the video I posted states, it's just more of an umbrella term for everything - which makes little sense to use in combination with all of the specific groups.

 

[Paladin3]

Queer is kind of a catch all, but gender fluidity is, IMHO, pretty much "Hey, look at me and my sexuality! You can't put me in a box. Ain't I special."

You can like women, men or both. You can be biologically a male or a female or, in very rare instanced, born with both genitalia. And you can live your life as a man or woman or transition partially or fully one way or the other. I'm accepting of whatever makes you happy, healthy and proud. No one should ever be ashamed of who they are or feel the need to hide who they are.

But don't go around expecting folks to treat you differently each day based on whatever whim struck your fancy when you woke up that morning. At that point you're just attention whoring and making your gender and sexuality an issue where it doesn't have to be, IMHO.

EDIT: If we start with the fact that sexuality is not a choice, and even though sexuality is completely separate from gender, do we want to embrace the idea that gender IS a choice? That gender is something so fluid one can switch back and forth on a whim? Isn't that a bit of a slap in the face to a person who legitimately feels they were born in the wrong body? Are they "choosing" their tough situation?

I'm on the fence. I want to respect whatever gender choice someone makes. I'll treat a lady dressed as a man or vice versa with equal respect and according to their choice. That's only common courtesy, IMHO. It's only the insincere attention seeker I have any problem with, and even then not too much of a problem. Whatever floats your boat and doesn't hurt anyone else. Live, love and be happy.

 

[Muse]

I thought the Q stood for...querulousnes

LGBTQ... then there's the term I've been hearing, "gender non-conforming." I'm sure there are others, several others. TBH, I'm sick of hearing about it. I don't get excited every time I see or hear a list acronyms concerning a veritable alphabet soup of sex orientations. I know, a lot of other people do, especially in the region I live in. To each his/her/it own.

 

[Ichinisan]

Early Morning Thought: ...

Another thought: Practicing Christianity is a lot like role playing in a game. A really boring, horrible game with a thick book of rules that everyone cites and nobody follows.

Well, yeah...but why single-out Christianity from other religions? You cool with Islam? Judaism?

 

[Ichinisan]

Queer is kind of a catch all, but gender fluidity is, IMHO, pretty much "Hey, look at me and my sexuality! You can't put me in a box. Ain't I special."

You can like women, men or both. You can be biologically a male or a female or, in very rare instanced, born with both genitalia. And you can live your life as a man or woman or transition partially or fully one way or the other. I'm accepting of whatever makes you happy, healthy and proud. No one should ever be ashamed of who they are or feel the need to hide who they are.

But don't go around expecting folks to treat you differently each day based on whatever whim struck your fancy when you woke up that morning. At that point you're just attention whoring and making your gender and sexuality an issue where it doesn't have to be, IMHO.

Yes. Our world glorifies self importance.

 

[Commodus]

Sure, I agree that the definition is pretty simple .. but what does it really mean?

I'm confused because "gender" is a social construct. It's not a real thing. What does "feeling manly" mean? I've been a man my whole life and I don't know what it's like to "feel manly."

Exhibit qualities? Like what? I like flowers, I wear a lot of pink (I wear a lot of pastels), I think Ani DiFranco is a great artist and enjoy her music. Does that mean I'm exhibiting qualities of a "female?"

Of course it's hard to "pin down" these things .. because they're not "real."

I spent a few hours casually Googling first hand experiences of genderfluid/non-binary folks, and it just seems like a bunch of vague feelings. I did find one account which struck me, though, here's the link:

https://ravishly.com/im-genderfluid

From the author:



This seems to take things to an entirely different level. I am completely willing to admit that there are things that an individual can simply not understand intimately because of his/her own worldview/experiences/reality/etc. and this may be the case here but I'm not so sure (yet). Thinking you're having rectal bleeding rather than a menstrual cycle because you "forget" you have female reproductive organs? What? I can absolutely understand how feeling that having female reproductive organs is "wrong" or "uncomfortable" or "in-congruent" with identity.. but lack of existence? Does she/he/they (the author states he/she/they accept all pronouns) forget she has arms or legs? Is that equally possible?

It's definitely fascinating, but I this part of the discussion just seems "different" to me. May just be an area for growth of thought.

Think of it as an extension of transgenderism: there's a permanent psychological break between your gender identity and birth sex. It's just that here the gender, well, wanders.

I wouldn't call it vague so much as transitory, and that means you feel different things at different times. And part of the problem is that there hasn't been extensive research into what makes someone non-binary/genderfluid -- it makes transgender research seem extensive. I think the one surefire thing is that you can't flick it on or off like a switch.

 

[Perknose]

As the article PJF linked to states, the term "queer" has been important for many to reclaim for themselves as the 'N' word has for blacks and the term "freaks" was for sixties counterculture folks.

"Queer" was long used to denigrate and demean gay folk.

"N' was long used to denigrate and demean African Americans.

"Freaks" had a short lived, if entirely virulent and totally mean spiritied life as a term used to denigrate and demean the counter culture pioneers of the sixties.

Sensing a trend here, rock star?

So those who were the targets of this ugly hate, often coming from pinhead bigots who couldn't accept anyone different from themselves as entirely human from under the fetid confines of their particular rock, defiantly reclaimed these terms of hate for their own, in order to drain that hate right out.

In the political sphere, the terms "liberal" and "socialist" have also long been termed into epithets of exclusion from the American polity. This, at long last, seems to be changing.

Btw, "freaks" had such a short life as a hate term because the group of folks it was hurled at were mostly white, male, and middle class, and so, couldn't as easily be cowed and subjugated by the angry and ignorant.