Serious question: Do no politicians care about the 30 trillion dollar national debt?

[Ken g6]

Just saw a headline that Biden is on track to reduce the deficit this year by $1.3T.

Doubtful but would like supporting evidence. The war in Ukraine is an admirable cause that the US Absolutely needs to support.

Reminder: The deficit is not the debt. The deficit is the amount the US adds to the debt every year.

With all the stimulus the government did last year but isn't doing this year, I can believe the number.

 

[Jaskalas]

What I would like to know is why people thing paying down the debt is good or desirable.

Isn't our nation forced to make payments to service this debt?
And those payments grow with the debt?
There are warnings of it consuming our national budget. Pushing out others things we might want to pay for.

Or instead of a balance sheet, this is all just a matter of stretching the credibility and value of our currency?
Seems like that COULD be a problem when taken too far. Whatever too far is, who the hell knows.


And since there are rabid dogs about... (Not you fskimospy)
Yes, I am well aware Obama cut the deficit in half after Bush blew it up. And Trump could give a !@#$ and doubled it again.
If I didn't state the obvious, at least a few morons would be screaming both sides within a reply or two. Even though this isn't a partisan issue being discussed.

 

[HomerJS]

Doubtful but would like supporting evidence. The war in Ukraine is an admirable cause that the US Absolutely needs to support.

Use the money we pay to Israel

 

[Vic]

Sovereign debt is not like debt that you or I take on and the debt is mostly owed to ourselves anyway. There is no ‘leaving it for younger people to fix’ because there’s no need to pay it off…ever.

While it is true that a country cannot be bankrupted by debt in its own currency, the burden of that debt can still be felt through inflation and higher interest rates.

 

[fskimospy]

While it is true that a country cannot be bankrupted by debt in its own currency, the burden of that debt can still be felt through inflation and higher interest rates.

Those are good reasons to cut the deficit, but not really good reasons to cut the overall debt.

 

[fskimospy]

Isn't our nation forced to make payments to service this debt?
And those payments grow with the debt?
There are warnings of it consuming our national budget. Pushing out others things we might want to pay for.

Or instead of a balance sheet, this is all just a matter of stretching the credibility and value of our currency?
Seems like that COULD be a problem when taken too far. Whatever too far is, who the hell knows.


And since there are rabid dogs about... (Not you fskimospy)
Yes, I am well aware Obama cut the deficit in half after Bush blew it up. And Trump could give a !@#$ and doubled it again.
If I didn't state the obvious, at least a few morons would be screaming both sides within a reply or two. Even though this isn't a partisan issue being discussed.

The thing is this debt is mostly just money we owe to ourselves so servicing the debt by paying ourselves more money isn’t exactly a huge problem.

As for what is too far, Japan is a good example of how this works. Their debt/GDP ratio is double ours and they are fine.

Also the thread title is misleading as the $30 trillion number seems to include intragovernmental holdings which is money the government owes itself.

 

[DarthKyrie]

Those are good reasons to cut the deficit, but not really good reasons to cut the overall debt.

The US system is set up such that our debt is the source of our credit. This is the way that I learned about Hamilton's system and what fascinated me about how he set it up.

 

[fskimospy]

The US system is set up such that our debt is the source of our credit. This is the way that I learned about Hamilton's system and what fascinated me about how he set it up.

Yes, and treasuries are a vital part of our financial markets. If we actually paid off the national debt I feel like it might cause market chaos.

 

[dank69]

Doubtful but would like supporting evidence. The war in Ukraine is an admirable cause that the US Absolutely needs to support.

Well the WH projected $1.7T in May, but that is probably on the high end:

Statement from OMB Director Shalanda Young on Congressional Budget Office Report Projecting Historic Deficit Reduction | OMB | The White House

Today’s CBO report projects that the deficit this year will fall by $1.7 trillion—the single largest nominal reduction in the federal deficit in American history. With that historic reduction, our deficit this year will be lower than CBO projected it would be before passage of the American...

www.whitehouse.gov

 

[zinfamous]

That "budget surplus" isn't what you think it was. The debt problem has spanned many decades and all types of politicians are responsible for it.

except that Trump "fixed it all" somehow, in your fevered brain.

 

[zinfamous]

You seem to be the biggest dumbass motherfucker on this forum. Can you expand on this subject? Every time I see your posts it is just shit posting.
I have many u of t graduates that would like to argue your point.

You learn quickly. 😀

 

[zinfamous]

The US system is set up such that our debt is the source of our credit. This is the way that I learned about Hamilton's system and what fascinated me about how he set it up.

If you ask a modern conservative, they are super gay for capitalism and our "Founding Fathers," until you explain to them how our economy was actually set up and how capitalism actually works, and what our "Founding Fathers" thought about capitalism. ...then of course the truth becomes "liberal leftist lies."

This is why the GOP has been hall-bent on defunding education (especially civics) and mental healthcare for decades now. They need their voters to be mouth-breathing, drooling idiots in order to keep them supporting the policies that specifically impoverish them.

Just look at fucking brandonbull try to turd out some verbiage on these forums. Shallow brainpan thinking like that is only the result of decades of GOP meddling with his own personal access to education and mental health.

 

[DarthKyrie]

If you ask a modern conservative, they are super gay for capitalism and our "Founding Fathers," until you explain to them how our economy was actually set up and how capitalism actually works, and what our "Founding Fathers" thought about capitalism. ...then of course the truth becomes "liberal leftist lies."

This is why the GOP has been hall-bent on defunding education (especially civics) and mental healthcare for decades now. They need their voters to be mouth-breathing, drooling idiots in order to keep them supporting the policies that specifically impoverish them.

Just look at fucking brandonbull try to turd out some verbiage on these forums. Shallow brainpan thinking like that is only the result of decades of GOP meddling with his own personal access to education and mental health.

What the GOP has done to this country is unforgivable and I will never vote for a member of the GOP ever again. I actually voted for a few GOP pols on the local level because I knew the people running, but that will never happen again.

 

[Homerboy]

Just saw a headline that Biden is on track to reduce the deficit this year by $1.3T.

well, to be fair, when you don't really spend money on things the people want (healthcare, infrastructure, education, etc) all you're really spending on is the military, right? So you're going to save a few bucks that way.

 

[JEDI]

Or do they care but they're hoping the public won't vote them out of office before they die and leave the problem for younger people to fix?

Yup, kick the can down the road and hope they are not in office by the time it becomes a crisis 😡

This is both parties

 

[JEDI]

What I would like to know is why people thing paying down the debt is good or desirable.

Explain why it's not for a nation?

 

[fskimospy]

Explain why it's not for a nation?

1) People wanting essentially riskless investments would no longer be able to buy them.
2) Treasury bonds underpin a significant number of global financial instruments and without a large and liquid market these other instruments would lose their anchor.
3) The fed would have to find a new way to conduct monetary policy.

Debt for a household is (all else being equal) bad. It represents a negative claim on your net worth. Sovereign debt in currency it issues does not work any way remotely close to the same way as household debt though. Let's say I lend my wife $100. She now has a debt of $100 and I have a credit of $100. Her debt is real, but is our household as a whole any poorer? Of course not. Now take it a step further - I borrow 100 fskimospybucks from my wife that I can print an unlimited number of on the back of napkins. What sort of debt do I have now? Not a very convincing one.

As Vic mentioned there are real constraints to deficit spending, primarily inflation, and so I agree with calls to reduce the deficit right now because deficit spending is fiscal stimulus and we don't need any more of that at the moment. The debt though? Leave it there forever.

 

[DarthKyrie]

Explain why it's not for a nation?

This doesn't apply to every nation, it applies to the United States because we have total control over our money supply and the fact that most debt is owed to the people of the United States instead of to foreign entities, and what foreign entities that do own part of our debt own it because it is such a stable investment.