Seperate Cards for PhysX?

[Scionix]

So, after ordering my GTX295 (yay!), I want to keep one of my 8800gt's to use for physX.

A.) Will this even give me a performance increase, seeing as the gtx295 eats babies, and:

B.) Will I have to do some funky driver dance to get both to work? Or can I just pop both in, install both sets of drivers, and go? Is there a default option in Nvidia system tools with which I can designate a physx card?

Any replies appreciated.

 

[TurtleCrusher]

Is your power supply going to be good enough for a GTX295 *AND* an 8800gt?

 

[Scionix]

Originally posted by: Scholzpdx
Is your power supply going to be good enough for a GTX295 *AND* an 8800gt?

I know it's good for the gtx295, I'm pretty sure it's good for the 8800gt as well. If it can't cut it, then I can live with taking out the 8800gt. I'm just wondering if the dedicated physX card will help with the gtx295.

 

[1ManArmY]

Originally posted by: Scionix

Originally posted by: Scholzpdx
Is your power supply going to be good enough for a GTX295 *AND* an 8800gt?

I know it's good for the gtx295, I'm pretty sure it's good for the 8800gt as well. If it can't cut it, then I can live with taking out the 8800gt. I'm just wondering if the dedicated physX card will help with the gtx295.

Hmm 620W probably on the border line might need at least a 750W PSU.

I'm running an GTX275 and a 8800GT as a dedicated PhysX card.
Once you update your drivers you just go into the nvidia control panel and enable your 8800GT as your dedicated PhysX card and then it will free up the GTX295.

 

[Schmide]

Some rough numbers on your wattage

120w+ CPU: Intel Q6600 @ 3.5 Ghz
90w GPU: Nvidia 8800GT SLI @ stock.
215w 295gtx
40w 750i
10w RAM: 8GB Corsair Dominator DDR2
15w HD: WD Green 500GB @ 7200 RPM
10w Media: Sound Blaster X-FI sound card/Asus DVD-R drive
20w Cooling: XSPC 120mm Triple Radiator w/Swiftech pump/reservoi
20w misc fans dvd etc

Total 540w 45a with approx 445w 37a on the 12v

Looks like you're going to make it after all.

Edit: forgot the chipset.

 

[RocksteadyDotNet]

I gave my 8800GTS away to a mate when I bought my 4870.

Maybe I should have kept it fo for Physx. Mmm...

 

[nOOky]

You did the right thing. A dedicated second card will probably never, ever be noticeable in any game. One good main card will be able to handle PhysX and the rest. It will eat up more wattage and create more heat in your case, as well as be more a burden to the power supply. Probably the best bet is to oc the main card a bit, sell the other one and buy a copy of Windows 7 or something with the proceeds

 

[Scionix]

Originally posted by: Schmide
Some rough numbers on your wattage

120w+ CPU: Intel Q6600 @ 3.5 Ghz
90w GPU: Nvidia 8800GT SLI @ stock.
215w 295gtx
40w 750i
10w RAM: 8GB Corsair Dominator DDR2
15w HD: WD Green 500GB @ 7200 RPM
10w Media: Sound Blaster X-FI sound card/Asus DVD-R drive
20w Cooling: XSPC 120mm Triple Radiator w/Swiftech pump/reservoi
20w misc fans dvd etc

Total 540w 45a with approx 445w 37a on the 12v

Looks like you're going to make it after all.

Edit: forgot the chipset.

Yeah, that's what I've been told

I'm not 100% sure that the 8800gt will run as well, but that's just bonus points. Also, does anyone know what sort of performance increase I will see, if any at all?

And I'm bumping up to a 1000w PSU as my next upgrade, so even if the 8800gt won't squeek out, It will in the near future.

Thanks for all the replies guys, AT never fails to be helpful!

You did the right thing. A dedicated second card will probably never, ever be noticeable in any game. One good main card will be able to handle PhysX and the rest. It will eat up more wattage and create more heat in your case, as well as be more a burden to the power supply. Probably the best bet is to oc the main card a bit, sell the other one and buy a copy of Windows 7 or something with the proceeds

Whaomg same time post. So just keep the extra 8800GT? My second rig can have SLI, then.

Unless someone begs to differ >.>

 

[nOOky]

It would probably be much more useful in that role in your second pc. SLI 8800GT's are plenty fast, more than adequate for a spare computer!

 

[Scionix]

Originally posted by: nOOky
It would probably be much more useful in that role in your second pc. SLI 8800GT's are plenty fast, more than adequate for a spare computer!

Awesome, thanks. Also, what sort of performance increase will I see from the GPU leap? I've been told a GTX 295 is roughly four times more powerful than two 8800GT's in SLI (at my resolution: 1920X1200), but I could never grab a hold of a direct comparison.

Anyone have an accurate idea?

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: Scionix
So, after ordering my GTX295 (yay!), I want to keep one of my 8800gt's to use for physX.

A.) Will this even give me a performance increase, seeing as the gtx295 eats babies, and:

B.) Will I have to do some funky driver dance to get both to work? Or can I just pop both in, install both sets of drivers, and go? Is there a default option in Nvidia system tools with which I can designate a physx card?

Any replies appreciated.

Sorry I'm late!

While the GTX295 is powerful enough all by itself to handily run the game engines and PhysX at the same time, there is still a performance increase in PhysX games when using a second GeForce 8 series card or better to handle the PhysX load.

There is no funky driver install. Just remove your current driver, shutdown, install your GTX295 in your primary PCI-e slot and the 8800GT in the secondary. Boot up, and install the latest Nvidia driver. It will install the same driver for both cards.

Yes, there is an option to designate which card you wish to use PhysX in the Nvidia control Panel.

Quick example. I am running a GTX295 and an 8400GS for PhysX. I have not run fps comparisons yet, but either way, the game runs nicely. I'll get some numbers out to you today, I have some spare time for the holiday weekend.

Another note. Using a 9800GTX+ and a 8600GT for PhysX, in GRAW2, and Unreal Tournament3 PhysX levels, I noted about a 20 to 30% increase in fps having the 8600GT run PhysX rather than let the 9800GTX+ do everything by itself (which it could by the way).

So, that's the story. I'll get some numbers to you later today.
Congrats on your new card, you'll be amazed.

EDIT UPDATE: Ok, here we go:

Cryostasis 1650x1080 All settings maxxed. (22" monitor at native res)
Q6600 at 2.4GHz (stock) Probably a bit limited with this CPU.
2GB DDR3 1600
eVGA 790i Ultra SLI
GTX295
8400GS
Corsair 750TX
22" Samsung LCD
Vista32 Ultimate
Forceware 186.18

GTX295 Rendering and running PhysX 20.7 fps

GTX295 Rendering & 8400GS running PhysX 33.4 fps

At these highest settings, utilizing the GeForce 8400GS for PhysX netted a gain of about 60% in framerate for this current scene. Framerate improvement may vary around the levels depending on the intensity of PhysX content. I ran around for a while in the levels to find the most PhysX stressful location I could come across. This waterfall took the heaviest toll on framerates so I chose this location to capture.

I used eVGA precision for the on screen display of framerates in the upper left corner, and for the screen captures. I tried FRAPS first, but it doesn't seem to work with SM4.0 enabled in the games options. Only with SM3.0. So I threw FRAPS in the recycle bin and used eVGA's utility.

This was using a bottom of the food chain 8400GS 256MB card. 16sp's, 459 core, 918 shader, 800MHz memory (GDDR2). I think your 8800GT may net even more performance. So have at it!!

At Nooky: "You did the right thing. A dedicated second card will probably never, ever be noticeable in any game. One good main card will be able to handle PhysX and the rest. It will eat up more wattage and create more heat in your case, as well as be more a burden to the power supply. Probably the best bet is to oc the main card a bit, sell the other one and buy a copy of Windows 7 or something with the proceeds"

Care to change your "never, ever" position? And perhaps your advice to the OP?

 

[Keysplayr]

Bump for the OP.

 

[nOOky]

No, I won't change my advice. I have tried it before myself. And while I didn't cherry pick a particular scene and fraps it, I did not notice any difference in any of my games. I suppose if he plays games which rely heavily on PhysX he might see the frame rate jump. If the games the OP plays don't include any PhysX, there will be no increase in fps, the second card just sits there, wasting power and generating heat.
Even an nvidia fanboy can concede that, so what it really boils down to is the games he plays. I will concede that it can help in certain games, but usually those games are in the minority of gamers collections. If a GTX295 really needs help rendering everything (which it doesn't) and it's not adequate enough then someone is too power hungry
I would like to see benchies of a second card doing anything in CoDWAW or TF2 for example...

 

[Zap]

Originally posted by: nOOky
I would like to see benchies of a second card doing anything in CoDWAW or TF2 for example...

Those games don't seem super demanding. Heck, a GTX 295 by itself is probably overkill for those games. I currently play most things at 1920x1200 on a single GTX 260, and that includes COD4 and TF2.

So, there isn't an overwhelming performance gain from using dedicated PhysX, but as you conceded in some instances there can be.

I'd have to say that PhysX is way more useful to gamers than some other stuff such as Killer NICs.

Besides, if Scionix's PSU can handle it, then why not? It won't cost him anything and it is easy to set up.

I think once people go this route, they start looking for games that benefit from PhysX. It's kind of like Crysis. Once people upgrade to latest/greatest video card they start looking for a copy of Crysis... and then we see posts like "it still won't run smooth." :laugh:

nOOky, you call people "nvidia fanboy" but does that answer the OP's questions?

Answers:
A) In games titles that support PhysX (supposedly around 150 - talking individual titles not game engines), YES. It will give better performance, better eye candy or both. The performance gain may be a lot, or so little that you can't notice - all depends on the game and your setup.
B) Just pop it in and select which card you want as PhysX in the NVIDIA Control Panel.

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: nOOky
No, I won't change my advice. I have tried it before myself. And while I didn't cherry pick a particular scene and fraps it, I did not notice any difference in any of my games. I suppose if he plays games which rely heavily on PhysX he might see the frame rate jump. If the games the OP plays don't include any PhysX, there will be no increase in fps, the second card just sits there, wasting power and generating heat.
Even an nvidia fanboy can concede that, so what it really boils down to is the games he plays. I will concede that it can help in certain games, but usually those games are in the minority of gamers collections. If a GTX295 really needs help rendering everything (which it doesn't) and it's not adequate enough then someone is too power hungry
I would like to see benchies of a second card doing anything in CoDWAW or TF2 for example...

LOL, why didn't you just say you had no intention of having a logical argument? I wouldn't have bothered. Thanks for the chuckle though.

And you're right, I did Cherry pic a scene. One with HIGH PHYSX action. Would you have me choose a scene without any physX? Why on earth for? If you conducted the tests yourself, you did it wrong. It's right in front of your eyes here my friend. Same scene, on screenshot without extra card running PhysX, and the other with. Same settings.
Games like Cryostasis and Mirrors Edge for example have PhysX all over the place. Melting/cracking/breaking ice, running water, smoke particles, wind from fans, sparks bouncing in random directions from a piece of equipment, cloth blowing in the wind slowly losing it's rigidity due to increased heat in the room. It's everywhere, and I just picked the most obvious display of PhysX on the level I was on. Cherry picked does not apply here in the context you are using it. And what's with the Nvidia fanboy comment? It has absolutely nothing to do with any part of our conversation here, unless the poster has another company in mind. Sheesh.

I saw your posts. Called you on it with data to back it up. You were incorrect and now will not back down because you're committed to your previous posts.

If the OP wasn't concerned about PhysX games, he wouldn't have made this thread. He obviously was curious. Now he knows. now you can spend the rest of the thread trying to disuade him from doing this setup with worries of heat and power consumption. Have at it.
Lord have mercy.

 

[Scionix]

Keysplayer, you are amazing. Thanks for the time you gave me with that amazing post!

Alright, so I think I've made up my mind. I'm gonna pop that 8800gt in there! Now to salivate over the weekend and 'till tuesday waiting for my new beast of a card.

Too bad I have to drop another 160$ for a waterblock >.>

 

[nOOky]

Power usage, case cooling, and monetary costs are of no concern? They are not a logical argument? I guess I take everything into account when I make a decision. I still don't see a list of what the OP plays. It is possible that no games he plays will be affected by adding a second card, and those other factors will be taken into account. I specified that. There is no need to backpedal out of a perfectly good argument for making a case, either way.
If he has the money and doesn't care about any of those factors then it is not even an issue. I'm certain I've never seen a statement made by anyone touting power usage and heat being important factors on this website.
Personally I would go the way of adding the card to my second computer in SLI, I would think he would see much more benefit out of that. He asked for opinions, I gave mine, and you can't say it's either right or wrong, you can only disagree with it and state your case.
The fanboy statement wasn't directed at anyone in particular but made as a general statement, I am neither, I buy whatever performs the best at the time. Don't take it to heart, unless it hit home, I cannot be responsible for what you read into every word.
Until we know what the OP plays, it's a moot point. If no games he plays are supported by it, then the second card is just sitting there using resources. If he plays anything that might benefit, then it may add value.

 

[Schmide]

Originally posted by: Keysplayr
worries of heat and power consumption

At idle the card is going to use maybe 30-40w and I doubt PhysicsX is going to cause the card do draw it's maximum 80-90w.

As for the cost. 720 hours in a month x ($0.15 elec / 1000kwh) x 1.2 eff * 40w = $5

If the OP can afford a gtx295, I think a Lincoln won't keep him awake at night.

Just saying.

 

[Scionix]

Originally posted by: Schmide

Originally posted by: Keysplayr
worries of heat and power consumption

At idle the card is going to use maybe 30-40w and I doubt PhysicsX is going to cause the card do draw it's maximum 80-90w.

As for the cost. 720 hours in a month x ($0.15 elec / 1000kwh) x 1.2 eff * 40w = $5

If the OP can afford a gtx295, I think a Lincoln won't keep him awake at night.

Just saying.

Hehehe, being 17 + Summer = Disposable income

>.>

 

[Corporate Thug]

Not to thread jack, but can a Nvidia card be used as a physX card while an ATi card is used as the primary? I want to get a 4890 and I have a 8800GT (which has low resale value) so I was thinking of using as a dedicated PhysX

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: Corporate Thug
Not to thread jack, but can a Nvidia card be used as a physX card while an ATi card is used as the primary? I want to get a 4890 and I have a 8800GT (which has low resale value) so I was thinking of using as a dedicated PhysX

On Windows XP and Windows 7, Yes.
On Vista, No.

 

[1ManArmY]

Originally posted by: Keysplayr

Originally posted by: Scionix
So, after ordering my GTX295 (yay!), I want to keep one of my 8800gt's to use for physX.

A.) Will this even give me a performance increase, seeing as the gtx295 eats babies, and:

B.) Will I have to do some funky driver dance to get both to work? Or can I just pop both in, install both sets of drivers, and go? Is there a default option in Nvidia system tools with which I can designate a physx card?

Any replies appreciated.

Sorry I'm late!

While the GTX295 is powerful enough all by itself to handily run the game engines and PhysX at the same time, there is still a performance increase in PhysX games when using a second GeForce 8 series card or better to handle the PhysX load.

There is no funky driver install. Just remove your current driver, shutdown, install your GTX295 in your primary PCI-e slot and the 8800GT in the secondary. Boot up, and install the latest Nvidia driver. It will install the same driver for both cards.

Yes, there is an option to designate which card you wish to use PhysX in the Nvidia control Panel.

Quick example. I am running a GTX295 and an 8400GS for PhysX. I have not run fps comparisons yet, but either way, the game runs nicely. I'll get some numbers out to you today, I have some spare time for the holiday weekend.

Another note. Using a 9800GTX+ and a 8600GT for PhysX, in GRAW2, and Unreal Tournament3 PhysX levels, I noted about a 20 to 30% increase in fps having the 8600GT run PhysX rather than let the 9800GTX+ do everything by itself (which it could by the way).

So, that's the story. I'll get some numbers to you later today.
Congrats on your new card, you'll be amazed.

EDIT UPDATE: Ok, here we go:

Cryostasis 1650x1080 All settings maxxed. (22" monitor at native res)
Q6600 at 2.4GHz (stock) Probably a bit limited with this CPU.
2GB DDR3 1600
eVGA 790i Ultra SLI
GTX295
8400GS
Corsair 750TX
22" Samsung LCD
Vista32 Ultimate
Forceware 186.18

GTX295 Rendering and running PhysX 20.7 fps

GTX295 Rendering & 8400GS running PhysX 33.4 fps

At these highest settings, utilizing the GeForce 8400GS for PhysX netted a gain of about 60% in framerate for this current scene. Framerate improvement may vary around the levels depending on the intensity of PhysX content. I ran around for a while in the levels to find the most PhysX stressful location I could come across. This waterfall took the heaviest toll on framerates so I chose this location to capture.

I used eVGA precision for the on screen display of framerates in the upper left corner, and for the screen captures. I tried FRAPS first, but it doesn't seem to work with SM4.0 enabled in the games options. Only with SM3.0. So I threw FRAPS in the recycle bin and used eVGA's utility.

This was using a bottom of the food chain 8400GS 256MB card. 16sp's, 459 core, 918 shader, 800MHz memory (GDDR2). I think your 8800GT may net even more performance. So have at it!!

At Nooky: "You did the right thing. A dedicated second card will probably never, ever be noticeable in any game. One good main card will be able to handle PhysX and the rest. It will eat up more wattage and create more heat in your case, as well as be more a burden to the power supply. Probably the best bet is to oc the main card a bit, sell the other one and buy a copy of Windows 7 or something with the proceeds"

Care to change your "never, ever" position? And perhaps your advice to the OP?

da proof is in da pudding :beer:

 

[1ManArmY]

Originally posted by: Schmide

Originally posted by: Keysplayr
worries of heat and power consumption

At idle the card is going to use maybe 30-40w and I doubt PhysicsX is going to cause the card do draw it's maximum 80-90w.

As for the cost. 720 hours in a month x ($0.15 elec / 1000kwh) x 1.2 eff * 40w = $5

If the OP can afford a gtx295, I think a Lincoln won't keep him awake at night.

Just saying.

LOL

 

[Denithor]

Originally posted by: Scionix
Awesome, thanks. Also, what sort of performance increase will I see from the GPU leap? I've been told a GTX 295 is roughly four times more powerful than two 8800GT's in SLI (at my resolution: 1920X1200), but I could never grab a hold of a direct comparison.

Anyone have an accurate idea?

AT: MultiGPU article

GTX 260 is more like 1.5-1.7x performance of 8800GT. So a GTX 295 (which is slightly more than twice a GTX 260) is probably pretty close to 4x performance of a single 8800GT or double the performance of a pair of 8800GT cards.

At reasonable resolutions a pair of 8800GT cards (or a single 9800GX2) will typically beat a single GTX 260 but will lose every time to a pair of the faster cards (or a GTX 295).

And one thing to note - at higher resolution and/or plenty of AA/AF enabled the 512MB frame buffer of the two 8800GT (one 9800GX2) will significantly choke performance - to the point that a single GTX 260 wins. In many cases in the article above the 9800GX2 beats out the GTX 260 - or even the GTX 280 - at 1920x1200 - but fall far short of the single card performance at 2560x1600.

 

[Scionix]

Originally posted by: Denithor

Originally posted by: Scionix
Awesome, thanks. Also, what sort of performance increase will I see from the GPU leap? I've been told a GTX 295 is roughly four times more powerful than two 8800GT's in SLI (at my resolution: 1920X1200), but I could never grab a hold of a direct comparison.

Anyone have an accurate idea?

AT: MultiGPU article

GTX 260 is more like 1.5-1.7x performance of 8800GT. So a GTX 295 (which is slightly more than twice a GTX 260) is probably pretty close to 4x performance of a single 8800GT or double the performance of a pair of 8800GT cards.

At reasonable resolutions a pair of 8800GT cards (or a single 9800GX2) will typically beat a single GTX 260 but will lose every time to a pair of the faster cards (or a GTX 295).

And one thing to note - at higher resolution and/or plenty of AA/AF enabled the 512MB frame buffer of the two 8800GT (one 9800GX2) will significantly choke performance - to the point that a single GTX 260 wins. In many cases in the article above the 9800GX2 beats out the GTX 260 - or even the GTX 280 - at 1920x1200 - but fall far short of the single card performance at 2560x1600.

Awesome, thanks. My card gets here today!