Separation of church and state on birth control

[WHAMPOM]

Under the new health care law, religious organizations must provide employees access to birth control, or face fines.

The problem is, some religious organizations have a moral objection to certain types of birth control.

http://healthland.time.com/2012/01/...on-religious-employers-must-pay-for-the-pill/

So where do we draw the line? What right does the government have to tell people what they can and can not do while following the religion of their choice?

By setting guidelines for religious organizations, isn't the government promoting a centralized religion? Or rather a form of centralized religion?

"cause dummy, there is a difference between the employees and the members of a religious organization. Just like a Private in the Army and a Black Water goon.

 

[Juddog]

"cause dummy, there is a difference between the employees and the members of a religious organization. Just like a Private in the Army and a Black Water goon.

^^ Pretty much - these aren't church delegates, they are employees that are getting paychecks and healthcare.

 

[alphatarget1]

Was it only me who interpreted the title as:

the "separation of church and state" (a person) for whatever reason does not intend to get pregnant and opted to start taking birth control pills?

lol.

 

[HumblePie]

Was it only me who interpreted the title as:

the "separation of church and state" (a person) for whatever reason does not intend to get pregnant and opted to start taking birth control pills?

lol.

Texashiker is pretty much a religious zealot, hick, back-water buffoon. He's a spidey07 wannabe at times and practicing some of his best FNE style OPs. Putting basically false info that is "close" to what the original information is just to stir up shit.

 

[cybrsage]

Not if she's unconscious and the family wants it. So its ok for her to become pregnant with some scumbag rapists baby. I guess the next step is her being forced to carry it to term.

Why do you think one human should be executed for the crimes of that human's father?

 

[Juddog]

I laugh at this because it's basically just the same as any prescription medication. It's not forcing anybody to take it, it's just reimbursing the cost of taking it.

It's not like the doctors are handing out RU-486 pills like they are candy; it's just covering birth control, which currently is the most prescribed medication for women in the ages 18 to 44.

 

[Juddog]

Why do you think one human should be executed for the crimes of that human's father?

As usual you only try to stir up trouble instead of actually reading the article.

"However, the new regulation does not require coverage of abortions."

Fine print kills when you just google anything to support your thoughts and don't bother actually reading the material.

 

[HomerJS]

If she's unconscious, the hospital should NOT be terminating the pregnancy anyway, regardless of whether the family wants to do so or not. Until it's established that she is incompetent (temporary or permanent) and unable to make her own health care choices, or perhaps a minor, the family's wishes are pretty irrelevant.

Why are most of your hypotheticals stupid?

This hypothetical is real world. In case you didn't know women get raped quite frequently. The morning after pill prevents fertilized eggs from attaching to the uterine wall, preventing pregnancy. You have a valid point about termination but that's not what were talking about here.

 

[cybrsage]

As usual you only try to stir up trouble instead of actually reading the article.

As usual, you are incapable of reading a post from the start to the end...even though it has very few sentences and no big words.

Not if she's unconscious and the family wants it. So its ok for her to become pregnant with some scumbag rapists baby. I guess the next step is her being forced to carry it to term.

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?p=32892385#post32892385

 

[Juddog]

As usual, you are incapable of reading a post from the start to the end...even though it has very few sentences and no big words.

As usual you defend with not admitting that you were wrong, instead only attacking the person who pointed out where you said something wrong. How about just admitting you were wrong, or is your ego too big for that?

Also a PSA: The morning after pill prevents fertilization - it doesn't cause an abortion.

 

[cybrsage]

As usual you defend with not admitting that you were wrong, instead only attacking the person who pointed out where you said something wrong. How about just admitting you were wrong, or is your ego too big for that?

Wrong for what, understanding that you are incapable of reading an entire post and remembering the start of it? We both fully know that I was responding to someone who talked about rape and abortion...so if you want someone to admit they were wrong, it would be you.

I bet you refuse to ever admit you are wrong, though, don't you? I have already done such, in a mod stickied thread no less. Sucks that your attack point has no teeth, eh?


If you want to whine and cry about the thread being dragged into abotion, whine and cry to HomeJS, since I quoted HIM talking about it.

 

[Juddog]

Wrong for what, understanding that you are incapable of reading an entire post and remembering the start of it? We both fully know that I was responding to someone who talked about rape and abortion...so if you want someone to admit they were wrong, it would be you.

I bet you refuse to ever admit you are wrong, though, don't you? I have already done such, in a mod stickied thread no less. Sucks that your attack point has no teeth, eh?

There was no abortion mentioned. We're talking about a rape and a morning after pill, you fucking imbecile.

You said this:
"one human should be executed"

No human is being executed when someone takes a morning after pill, you stupid fuck. How fucking stupid do you have to be to not understand the difference between contraception and abortion? It's like your posts continue to get more and more stupid over time.

In your zeal for spitting out posts to get your shilling for the day done, you're taking less and less time to try and understand something and it shows.

 

[cybrsage]

There was no abortion mentioned.

You said this:
"one human should be executed"

No human is being executed when someone takes a morning after pill, you stupid fuck. How fucking stupid do you have to be to not understand the difference between contraception and abortion?

Although scientists aren't completely sure how it works, they believe that levonorgestrel prevents pregnancy either by stopping the ovulation process or by disrupting the ability of sperm and egg to meet in the fallopian tubes. Some speculate that the drug may prevent the fertilized egg from implanting as well, perhaps by making the uterine lining less receptive to the egg.

http://health.howstuffworks.com/sexual-health/contraception/morning-after1.htm

Ooops. Guess you really need to learn a bit more about things before you run your mouth. It would be a new ability for you to learn, but if you try hard enough, you can master it.

 

[sactoking]

Under the new health care law, religious organizations must provide employees access to birth control, or face fines.

The problem is, some religious organizations have a moral objection to certain types of birth control.

http://healthland.time.com/2012/01/...on-religious-employers-must-pay-for-the-pill/

So where do we draw the line? What right does the government have to tell people what they can and can not do while following the religion of their choice?

By setting guidelines for religious organizations, isn't the government promoting a centralized religion? Or rather a form of centralized religion?

This isn't a separation of church and state issue. The government is not promoting any religion through the regulation.

It's also actually not a difficult regulation to comply with. Here we have a Catholic-affiliated hospital that also happens to run their own Catholic-affiliated insurance plan. We have a law requiring contraceptive services coverage so the insurance plan contracts with another insurer to provide coverage. It's a simple solution.

 

[Juddog]

http://health.howstuffworks.com/sexual-health/contraception/morning-after1.htm

Ooops. Guess you really need to learn a bit more about things before you run your mouth. It would be a new ability for you to learn, but if you try hard enough, you can master it.

"Some speculate" does not equal a fucking human being executed. Once again you prove how fucking stupid you are. Seriously do you even spend more than 30 seconds trying to understand something?

 

[Texashiker]

We have a law requiring contraceptive services coverage so the insurance plan contracts with another insurer to provide coverage. It's a simple solution.

Its not that simple.

We have a law that tries to force employers to provide services they have a moral objection to.

For people that have no morals or values this might not seem like a big deal.

 

[cybrsage]

"Some speculate" does not equal a fucking human being executed. Once again you prove how fucking stupid you are. Seriously do you even spend more than 30 seconds trying to understand something?

Lets start again, I know it is hard due to your disability. I am sorry you have a mental disability which prevents you from having a sufficient level of reading comprehension to understand simple things.

Although scientists aren't completely sure how it works,
What does this part mean? Well, if we think about it a little, we can be pretty sure it means scientists are not completely sure how it works. They simply do not know...they have some educated guesses, though. What could those guesses be?

1. by stopping the ovulation process
2. by disrupting the ability of sperm and egg to meet in the fallopian tubes
3. prevent the fertilized egg from implanting as well

They are connected by or statements.

To restate in simple terms (since you most likely have already forgotton the first few sentences):

Scientists do not know, but their educated guess is that it prevents ovulation, prevents egg fertilization, or prevents fertilized egg implatation.

 

[dank69]

As usual, you are incapable of reading a post from the start to the end...even though it has very few sentences and no big words.

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?p=32892385#post32892385

As usual? That implies that Juddog has done this in the past (He hasn't even done so here, fwiw). Would you mind linking some threads where he has done this before?

 

[cybrsage]

As usual? That implies that Juddog has done this in the past (He hasn't even done so here, fwiw). Would you mind linking some threads where he has done this before?

When you are incapable of seeing that he did it here, what point is there? It would be like asking a blind man if he likes blue or geen better...

 

[dank69]

When you are incapable of seeing that he did it here, what point is there? It would be like asking a blind man if he likes blue or geen better...

Typical cop out, wouldn't expect anything else from you.

 

[Juddog]

When you are incapable of seeing that he did it here, what point is there? It would be like asking a blind man if he likes blue or geen better...

In other words you cannot back up your statement.

Just like you cannot back up the logic behind saying that a fertilized egg that doesn't attach to the uterus lining, a "human is being executed".

What's next - do you want to try to take mothers to court who have a fertilized egg not take to their uterus wall while trying to conceive? Tell me where this line of logic goes, because all I see so far is you making a retarded statement and then going after the people who point out where you are wrong.

Guessing from your past behavior, you will simply try to drown out any reasonable arguments with sheer quantity of "haha last post!" Just because you post last and more often than almost anybody else does not make what you say correct.

There are plenty of posters in this forum that I may not necessarily agree with that post intelligently and back up their points with actual thought instead of just googling an answer and then copy pasting it into a reply without actually reading it.

 

[blackangst1]

Umm... you have reminded me of another older news story. About some religious whacko's who didn't believe in doctors because Western Medicine was against their religion. They allowed their daughter to die of a very curable illness because they thought prayer was the only medicine needed. Guess what? Those parents are in jail. Is that so hard to comprehend? Some of the basics and rights of life we have MUST be dictated and enforced by government. Without that we'd be stuck with Jim Crow laws and other bullshit still. Just like religious organizations can not discriminate whom they hire based off any federally protected attributes either.

And for every story like this there are many where someone who has an incurable illness is somehow cured. Medicine cant explain it, and doctors call it a miracle, and the patient says it due to prayer.

Maybe government then should also dictate prayer be used in every medical case?

 

[cybrsage]

In other words you cannot back up your statement.

You simply believe that purposefully killing an innocent human is acceptable. With this believe in tow, you dismiss everything which does not conform to your belief and being non-existent.

Blinders on, you plow straight ahead. If it makes you happy, keep doing it. I suspect you are not all that happy living life pretending all other views are non-existent.

 

[cybrsage]

Typical cop out, wouldn't expect anything else from you.

Dank69 = brick wall. No real sense talking to a brick wall, you get no where.

 

[Juddog]

You simply believe that purposefully killing an innocent human is acceptable. With this believe in tow, you dismiss everything which does not conform to your belief and being non-existent.

Blinders on, you plow straight ahead. If it makes you happy, keep doing it. I suspect you are not all that happy living life pretending all other views are non-existent.

OK then back up your statement - please explain how a fertilized egg passing the uterus wall is a "human being executed" or "purposefully killing an innocent human". Until you can back up your statement, you are simply full of shit. Show me a single law that agrees with what you said.