Send Sapphire a message

[RedShirt]

I know there were quite a few people that fell prey to that newegg deal (and others a while back) when the new 128-bit slower clocked Radoen 9800pro came out.

Many of you returned the card, but I'm sure some people that ordered the card without reading threads like the ones located on Anandtech Forums got the card and still probably think they have a real 9800 pro.

Send Sapphire a message, where it hurts the most, their pocketbook.

 

[Slink3r]

Haha, thanks for informing us of this ^^

 

[calam63]

lol anyone who is keeping the card - and not knowing its a 128 bit card - won't know the difference between the 128 to 256 bit card- anyone who didn't know it was a 128 bit - will return it - no biggie there

not like sapphire trieds to hide the fact the card is 128 bit - i bet its written all over the box

 

[RedShirt]

Originally posted by: calam63
lol anyone who is keeping the card - and not knowing its a 128 bit card - won't know the difference between the 128 to 256 bit card- anyone who didn't know it was a 128 bit - will return it - no biggie there

not like sapphire trieds to hide the fact the card is 128 bit - i bet its written all over the box

There are people that don't know the difference between 128-bit and 256-bit. They will buy it thinking it's better than a 9800SE, when it is not. They will think they are getting a real 9800pro.

These people also may not return it because the card will work, and they will not know that they should be getting better performance.

 

[acejj26]

it is better than a 9800SE....128 bit 9800 pro still has all 8 pipes, whereas 9800SE only has 4 pipes. in games that aren't memory bandwidth limited, 128 bit 9800 Pro wins

 

[RedShirt]

Originally posted by: acejj26
it is better than a 9800SE....128 bit 9800 pro still has all 8 pipes, whereas 9800SE only has 4 pipes. in games that aren't memory bandwidth limited, 128 bit 9800 Pro wins

This is true. Except the 9800SE has a 256-bit memory interface. Unless of course you get the Sapphire one....

Real 9800pro: 8 pipes, 256-bit
Fake 9800pro: 8 pipes, 128-bit
9800SE: 4 pipes, 256-bit

In any newer game, the fake 9800pro will probably perform closer to a 9800se than a real 9800pro. This is just a guess in my part. Wish there were some benches somewhere.

 

[alwayslearning]

newegg also has advertises the 98000pro from sapphire as a 256 bit. is this one different from the 128 bit version, or are you claiming they all are 128 bit?

 

[MercenaryForHire]

This is ridiculous.

Sapphire clearly labels the boxes of the neutered 9800Pros as having 128-bit memory. Any "misleading" is being done by the vendor, not the OEM.

Directly underneath "9800 Pro" it clearly says "128-bit version"

- M4H

 

[RedShirt]

Originally posted by: MercenaryForHire
This is ridiculous.

Sapphire clearly labels the boxes of the neutered 9800Pros as having 128-bit memory. Any "misleading" is being done by the vendor, not the OEM.

Directly underneath "9800 Pro" it clearly says "128-bit version"

- M4H

While it is easy for you and I to be able to tell the difference. A person who is not as into computer hardware as us will have no idea what the difference is between a 128-bit and 256-bit version.

A 9800pro should be a 9800pro. My goodness... They have 9800SE, 9800, 9800Pro, 9800XT.

Heck this new card even has it's core and memory clocks lower than a normal 9800Pro. They could have at LEAST gave it a new name like Radeon 9750 or something else, but they kept the name as a 9800 pro.

Again, I stress that we all here know the difference, it's the people that don't know any better that are going to get ripped off.

Edit: I mean who here would spend $170 for this card when a REAL 9800pro can be had now for under $200.

 

[ronnn]

totally agree, but alot of the problem exists in ATI naming in general. They have so many model numbers and can be quite confusing.

 

[calam63]

"Again, I stress that we all here know the difference, it's the people that don't know any better that are going to get ripped off."

if they don't know any better lol - they won't know there is a greener side - all i trying to say here is that - the people that buy that card aren't really paying attention to what they are buying - you could tell them that a geforce 2 is the best thing and they'll get it - highly doubt they would even feel the difference when playing games

if they knew the difference in performance - they probably would see the 128 bit version and say - nope not for me

 

[RedShirt]

Originally posted by: calam63
"Again, I stress that we all here know the difference, it's the people that don't know any better that are going to get ripped off."

if they don't know any better lol - they won't know there is a greener side - all i trying to say here is that - the people that buy that card aren't really paying attention to what they are buying - you could tell them that a geforce 2 is the best thing and they'll get it - highly doubt they would even feel the difference when playing games

if they knew the difference in performance - they probably would see the 128 bit version and say - nope not for me

I agree. And Sapphire is taking advantage of these people by naming the card as such.

 

[VirtualLarry]

Originally posted by: MercenaryForHire
This is ridiculous.

Sapphire clearly labels the boxes of the neutered 9800Pros as having 128-bit memory. Any "misleading" is being done by the vendor, not the OEM.

Directly underneath "9800 Pro" it clearly says "128-bit version"

- M4H

I agree with you in theory, but in practice, I do think that Sapphire is being intentionally misleading, by still calling the part a "9800 Pro".

Didn't ATI, and their "AIB" OEMs get into a big PR mess over exactly this sort of thing already, back in the 8500/8500 LE/8500 "LE LE" days? Didn't ATI basically set down a decree, stating that in order for their OEMs to call a card a specific model number, that it had to meet minimum specs, otherwise they had to call it something else, like an "SE" or "LE" or whatever modified version?

I don't know if that decree from ATI is still in force with their OEMs, but clearly, Sapphire shouldn't be calling these cards a "9800 Pro". (Or should they - maybe the decree only has to do with core/memory clock speeds, and nothing to do with memory-bus widths. I don't know.)

In either case, it *is* misleading to most customers, and is a very poor way to manage customer expectations about a product. That can only lead to negative backlash against Sapphire, and it apparently has.

I also think that the vendors are doing their fair share of deception, if they choose to list the product as a "9800 Pro", without further clarification. Even worse, like NewEgg's case, where they explicitly listed the part as "256-bit", and then later were forced to correct it to "128-bit". They are acting borderline fraudulently, by shipping the card without re-confirming the order with customers, after the description change happened, because the product is in fact different, and they should get the customers permission to perform a product substitution for the customer, otherwise it is clearly a bait-and-switch or just plain outright false advertising.

Does Sapphire have different SKUs for the 128-bit version of their product, or same SKU, just different production lots? If same SKU, that's very, very misleading of them.

 

[RedShirt]

Just want to bump this thread to get opinions of the afternoon crowd.

 

[Sunner]

ATi's entire naming scheme just sucks bigtime, Sapphire is taking advantage of that, but in the end, I blame ATi.

 

[formulav8]

Sapphire without a doubt is cheating people by putting the 9800 Pro on the video card when it isn't a true 9800 Pro. They know what they are doing. They are trying to rip off the unsuspecting consumer. They will probably, at least in the long run, not be affected badly at all with lieing about their product. They should put 9800LE or something, but definitely not 9800 Pro. Just IMO anyways.


Jason

 

[viivo]

Ethics aside, it's their right. Just as it's the customer's right to reasearch his or her purchase and not make a knee-jerk decision the moment they see the suspicously low price and the huge stickers stating "128 bit" they didn't see on the other, similar, higher priced cards.

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: MercenaryForHire
This is ridiculous.

Sapphire clearly labels the boxes of the neutered 9800Pros as having 128-bit memory. Any "misleading" is being done by the vendor, not the OEM.

Directly underneath "9800 Pro" it clearly says "128-bit version"

- M4H

agreed

 

[gsellis]

Not that I agree with Sapphire, but I have never seen any standard or document that says a Pro card only has 256-bit memory. I think this falls into RTFM. I have not heard that any e-sellers are refusing returns either. I am with M4H on this one (which seems to be the norm lately )

 

[kevinflames]

Problem is internet buying. Pictures and descriptions may not be clear.. I am going to buy a 9800 pro 128MB card from komplett.co.uk at £140 inc VAT , i emailed them to confirm it is 256bit , i havnt yet bought it though.

http://www.komplett.co.uk/k/ki.asp?sku=120304&cks=SER

 

[thorin]

Wow suprise suprise "Buyer beware" holds true even in 2004.

Sorry no sympathy for people how refuse to do any research and then get upset about it after the fact. Especially when there are much better ways to handle your displeasure. ie: Return the f'in thing and get a refund, repor the company to the BBB, sue them for false advertising (if there actually was any ... though most likely you didn't read the fine print when you should have).

Thorin

 

[RedShirt]

Originally posted by: thorin
Wow suprise suprise "Buyer beware" holds true even in 2004.

Sorry no sympathy for people how refuse to do any research and then get upset about it after the fact. Especially when there are much better ways to handle your displeasure. ie: Return the f'in thing and get a refund, repor the company to the BBB, sue them for false advertising (if there actually was any ... though most likely you didn't read the fine print when you should have).

Thorin

The thing is, people that aren't into the industry will try to do some research, conclude that they want a 9800pro, find this and say "WOW! This is a good price" and order the 128-bit version of the card without knowing there is any difference. They will see 9800 pro and think it's a true 9800 pro.

Again, I stress that we all here easily know there is a difference. It's the people that buy the thing and probably don't even realize they have a lower performing card that are getting taken advatnaged of.

Seriously, who in their right mind is going to knowingly buy this when a REAL 9800pro is only about $30 more.

I mean a NORMAL 9800 will perform better than this 9800pro.

 

[Need4Speed]

Originally posted by: RedShirt

Originally posted by: thorin
Wow suprise suprise "Buyer beware" holds true even in 2004.

Sorry no sympathy for people how refuse to do any research and then get upset about it after the fact. Especially when there are much better ways to handle your displeasure. ie: Return the f'in thing and get a refund, repor the company to the BBB, sue them for false advertising (if there actually was any ... though most likely you didn't read the fine print when you should have).

Thorin

The thing is, people that aren't into the industry will try to do some research, conclude that they want a 9800pro, find this and say "WOW! This is a good price" and order the 128-bit version of the card without knowing there is any difference. They will see 9800 pro and think it's a true 9800 pro.

Again, I stress that we all here easily know there is a difference. It's the people that buy the thing and probably don't even realize they have a lower performing card that are getting taken advatnaged of.

Seriously, who in their right mind is going to knowingly buy this when a REAL 9800pro is only about $30 more.

I mean a NORMAL 9800 will perform better than this 9800pro.

well if its too good to be true, than it usually is...no one is trying to pull the wool over anyones eyes here.

 

[gsellis]

People not in the industry are not going to know the difference even after getting it. They saved money and it is faster than what they had. I think you are too worked up over this. Cleansing breathes.

 

[Sunner]

Originally posted by: gsellis
People not in the industry are not going to know the difference even after getting it. They saved money and it is faster than what they had. I think you are too worked up over this. Cleansing breathes.

While I pretty much agree with Thorin, that's about the stupidest reason I've seen.
Basically you're saying it's ok to fool people so long as they don't know you are.

I'd love to see your reaction if you picked up an M5, only to find out it's a styled up 520i, but hey, it's still faster than the Fiat Punto you had before, so it's ok, right?