Senator wants study on video game violence

[gladiatorua]

Oh America may be doomed alright, but because of mass shootings? Really? Think of how unlikely it is that any given person will die in such a shooting. Is America doomed due to lightning strike deaths too?

Not because of mass shootings. Because of public perception.
What happens after most of mass shootings? Media uproar. Every aspect of the shooting is publicly dissected. Most of the spotlight goes to the shooter.
One of the common aspects of the shooting is suicide. But normal suicides are not discussed so thoroughly because suicides are addictive among troubled youth.
So we have suicide and unparalleled attention. So it looks like the best way of killing yourself and delivering some sort of misguided statement. And after every big shooting and media circus it leads to, there is a wave of secondary mass shootings. Considering the way media portrays the shooter...
So the first logical thing to fight these shooters would be limiting the exposure of the public to some of the information.
Yes, freedom of speech. But the idea of these mass-murder-suicides being fed by attention is not new and mass media still do it anyway with regard only for money and an opportunity to smear competing media/entertainment outlets like internet and video games.

 

[Geosurface]

Not because of mass shootings. Because of public perception.
What happens after most of mass shootings? Media uproar. Every aspect of the shooting is publicly dissected. Most of the spotlight goes to the shooter.
One of the common aspects of the shooting is suicide. But normal suicides are not discussed so thoroughly because suicides are addictive among troubled youth.
So we have suicide and unparalleled attention. So it looks like the best way of killing yourself and delivering some sort of misguided statement. And after every big shooting and media circus it leads to, there is a wave of secondary mass shootings. Considering the way media portrays the shooter...
So the first logical thing to fight these shooters would be limiting the exposure of the public to some of the information.
Yes, freedom of speech. But the idea of these mass-murder-suicides being fed by attention is not new and mass media still do it anyway with regard only for money and an opportunity to smear competing media/entertainment outlets like internet and video games.

Agreed. I'm not in favor of violating their freedom of speech... but damned if I didn't wish they'd exercise some voluntary restraint.

 

[Pr0d1gy]

How about we do a study on incompetence in the Senate and House?

 

[Zodiark1593]

Personally, I think politicians are bringing up these sort of arguments to give the impression they're doing something useful. It could very well be why news was brought up nation-wide in the first place.

 

[gladiatorua]

Personally, I think politicians are bringing up these sort of arguments to give the impression they're doing something useful. It could very well be why news was brought up nation-wide in the first place.

They are doing something useful. For people who pay them money. Consumption of TV content is going down, while consumption of new "evil" media goes up.

It's not about video games in general, although they might have been a factor in some cases. The guns are secondary. They are just handy tools. They aren't even that effective, but bombs, fire or poison are more traceable on planing stages. And violence is only a tool.

 

[paperfist]

There's no need to be able to buy a car that can go ten times the speed limit or more, do we ban people from buying Corvettes and Ferrari's? No we don't. You don't need to own a dog bigger than a small child. Do we ban all large dog ownership? No we don't.

For the record, the standard AR-15 you can buy is NOT automatic. It's semi-automatic just like a handgun. Full Auto weapons, listed as class 3 firearms are specifically regulated and nearly prohibitively expensive ($10k or more). They have restrictions on storage and such and the BATFE can come knock on the door and ask to check the serial numbers at any time. You also have to pay a hefty amount for a lawyer to do some paper work for you and a pay for a federal tax stamp.



yes this

But a gun is designed to kill people.

The way a semi-automatic works is you pull the trigger and it expends the entire round, right? Seriously, do we really need to have those? Do we really need people to be able to buy those at a gun show without a background check?

Someone can kill you with a car, yes. A big ass dog can kill you, yes. You can be killed with a knife, a fork and too much Zork. The difference is its way more harder to defend against someone with any kind of gun vrs other methods that can induce death.

Now I love me some BFx, Doom, Quake, etc and I agree it's not going to make me kill anyone. But sorry to the young ins, 8 year olds really don't need to be playing CoD type of games. I've seen my nephews and their friends go ape shit over it - they are totally desensitized toward violence and none of them are over 12.

 

[WelshBloke]

...The way a semi-automatic works is you pull the trigger and it expends the entire round, right? Seriously, do we really need to have those? Do we really need people to be able to buy those at a gun show without a background check?
.

Video games have taught me;

Semi automatic- click.bang.click.bang.click.bang...etc
Automatic- click.bangbangbangbangbang...etc
Bolt action-cluchuck.click.bang.cluchuck.click.bang...etc

 

[Arkaign]

But a gun is designed to kill people.

The way a semi-automatic works is you pull the trigger and it expends the entire round, right? Seriously, do we really need to have those? Do we really need people to be able to buy those at a gun show without a background check?

Someone can kill you with a car, yes. A big ass dog can kill you, yes. You can be killed with a knife, a fork and too much Zork. The difference is its way more harder to defend against someone with any kind of gun vrs other methods that can induce death.

Now I love me some BFx, Doom, Quake, etc and I agree it's not going to make me kill anyone. But sorry to the young ins, 8 year olds really don't need to be playing CoD type of games. I've seen my nephews and their friends go ape shit over it - they are totally desensitized toward violence and none of them are over 12.

Bombs imho are even deadlier than guns (our troops in Iraq and Afghanistan concur given the casualty statistics), because they're even harder to avoid when hidden.

Kennedy was killed according to the story by a bolt-action rifle by a poor marksman, so there's that.

All of this is just iced by the fact that stopping legal sales of firearms does nothing to protect people from those who choose to murder someone. The fact that asshole #1 can't go buy a gun at WalMart doesn't stop him. If asshole wants to kill someone, he will find a way. Just look at the massive gun violence in the inner cities like DC, with gun bans, perpetrated largely by those who aren't legally allowed to own guns in the first place. And even if you could magically make every single firearm in the USA vanish instantly, it would only be days before they started pouring over the borders en masse just like our failed drug war. And it would be even worse, because it would ONLY be the criminals and murderers in possession of them. Murders committed by legal firearms owners are exceedingly rare in the big picture after all.

 

[HeXen]

Problem with blaming in the modern era: There has always been mass murders and crazy people all throughout history. 100% of the blame to any murder is the murderer himself, not his mom, not his favorite video game nor the instrument he used to kill. Even cavemen had no problem killing each other with sharpened sticks and rocks.

 

[BladeVenom]

Worst school killing in American history. It was before video games, and before M-16s. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bath_School_disaster

 

[destrekor]

Everyone is emotional because it involved small children. The reality is no amount of banning anything is going to prevent things like this. Crazy people will do what crazy people will do. If not with guns, with something else.

Yep. This is why I hate our slow loss of freedoms, because everybody welcomes the idea of doing something to fix various problems we have faced. The vast majority seem to not care that each time is yet another small restriction, where we now have a lot less freedoms than ever before (and this will only continue).

It's always a knee-jerk response. Especially when children are involved, it becomes a "we must act now, we must ensure this never happens again!" and we accelerate down the spiral.

Nobody ever accepts the notion that some things just cannot be prevented. What's worse, nobody wants to "sacrifice" for true freedom - so many cannot accept that certain freedoms require a little sacrifice from time to time in order to ensure said freedom stands true.

No matter how much we completely ruin our country trying to stop these things, they WILL always remain a possibility. When people just snap, they will find a way to cause the distress they so crave.

It's why I do personally agree with the focus on mental health illnesses. Yes, in some ways it is painting a bad light on a few of the illnesses, but the entire world at large needs to better address and understand the mentally ill. So much research needs to be done, and a "fix" for mental health systems will certainly be out of grasp for some time... but a fervent push, with the financial backing, might afford us the opportunity to address this sooner.

 

[Mopetar]

It's so unlikely that its sad.

There's more evidence to suggest that video games might reduce youth crime. My guess is that it provides a lot of kids with cheap entertainment and helps keep them put of trouble. They're also a good way to blow off steam and reduce stress, possibly preventing them from otherwise doing something stupid.

 

[frowertr]

But a gun is designed to kill people.

The way a semi-automatic works is you pull the trigger and it expends the entire round, right? Seriously, do we really need to have those? Do we really need people to be able to buy those at a gun show without a background check?

snip....

Its not just gun shows as the media would have you believe. There is no national firearms registry other than for NFA items. Because of this ALL private sales are exempt from background checks. I can sell you a brand new AR-15 I just put together right in the comfort of your living room and I don't even need to issue you a receipt.

And this is how it should be. Do you really expect private sellers to conduct a background check on all potential buyers? The FBI charges a fee to run a name through NICS each time so do you think I (or any gun owner wanting to sell) am going to actually run checks on people who I want to sell/trade my firearms to? Im in Florida, so that fee is only $5 for me but in some states it can be over $50.

And then what about enforcement? Lets say the government passes a law that requires background checks for private sales/trades. Do you really expect Joe the Plumber to NOT sell a gun to another individual because the buyer didn't pass the background check?

The politicans and the media always attack guns after tragedies like Sandy Hook happen. Gun and "assault weapons" always seem like the easy targets. Never mind the people behind the trigger....

Food for thought: Columbine happened right smack in the middle of the Assault Weapon Ban of 1994 - 2004. Right lot of good that ban did those 13 victims.

 

[sourn]

Blame the person that committed the crime not the tool used or other factors (games, movies, music), and I don't care about what other countries do. There are to many variables to say this or that is why their deaths are lower. To say just because they have stricter gun control to me is non-sense.

And the 2nd amendment isn't about sport shoot or hunting. It is about freedom and having the chance to be able to fight back if the people decide their government has went to far. So yes we do need them.

Personally I'd rather these kids have access to firearms then not as bad as that may sound. Would you really want these type of people who plan to kill themselves look for other means aka bombs/chemicals (which you can easily find detailed instructions online on how to make online). Of course we wish these types of things would never happen, but they do. And no matter what they will keep happening.

I say let our teachers arm themselves if they pass a course (a real one not just something that says shoot this target), and psych evaluation. That I'd be more then happy to let my tax dollars go to.

 

[BrightCandle]

The USA us the most violent OECD countries, it has a homicide rate 4x that of the UK per million people. The UK in European terms is also extremely violent.

Since all these countries have computer games and other violent influences its fair to conclude that these do not cause the problem. In fact the main correlation of violence is to inequality, something which the USA is a world leader in.

 

[cmdrdredd]

The USA us the most violent OECD countries, it has a homicide rate 4x that of the UK per million people. The UK in European terms is also extremely violent.

Since all these countries have computer games and other violent influences its fair to conclude that these do not cause the problem. In fact the main correlation of violence is to inequality, something which the USA is a world leader in.

I don't want my hard work going to someone else. That is the problem with Europe. Look at Greece. Everyone retired early and nobody working, country went bankrupt.

Economic policy where you try to make everyone even is a failure everywhere. You cannot expect someone who studied to be an engineer and works at Intel to make the same wage as the guy who dropped out of school and sweeps a floor at McDonalds. Explain how that is a good idea? No reason to work hard to get ahead anymore makes for lazy people.

I work hard to have what I have and someone who made poor life choices should never benefit from that. There are people who lose their job who should get the benefits of food stamps etc. However there are too many people who just made the wrong decisions in their life and now want a handout.


Also in countries where the people are disarmed, the government has you by the balls and taxes the crap out of everything. Don't preach holier than thou here.

 

[OILFIELDTRASH]

I don't want my hard work going to someone else. That is the problem with Europe. Look at Greece. Everyone retired early and nobody working, country went bankrupt.

Economic policy where you try to make everyone even is a failure everywhere. You cannot expect someone who studied to be an engineer and works at Intel to make the same wage as the guy who dropped out of school and sweeps a floor at McDonalds. Explain how that is a good idea? No reason to work hard to get ahead anymore makes for lazy people.

I work hard to have what I have and someone who made poor life choices should never benefit from that. There are people who lose their job who should get the benefits of food stamps etc. However there are too many people who just made the wrong decisions in their life and now want a handout.

Bad examples. Of course the guy at McDonalds shouldn't make as much as the Intel engineer. That's just silly and adds nothing to the conversation. The problem is when the blue collar guy that's not afraid of some hard work can't even get a job to support his family while being expected to work inhumane hours while the corporate types stuff themselves like pigs.

 

[cmdrdredd]

Bad examples. Of course the guy at McDonalds shouldn't make as much as the Intel engineer. That's just silly and adds nothing to the conversation. The problem is when the blue collar guy that's not afraid of some hard work can't even get a job to support his family while being expected to work inhumane hours while the corporate types stuff themselves like pigs.

Nobody is working inhumane hours. Are you just picking large words to sound smart???

Problem is people expect more than they deserve so they won't take many jobs that they qualify for.

 

[blackened23]

Nobody is working inhumane hours. Are you just picking large words to sound smart???

Problem is people expect more than they deserve so they won't take many jobs that they qualify for.

I won't go too far off on this tangent, but I would have to agree -- Too many feel entitled without earning it. There is always income mobility in the US, yet, some people refuse to take the time and effort to properly train and educate themselves for a better future. Yet that isn't their fault - its racism. it's the rich man overtaxing them. its bias. Whatever.

 

[BrightCandle]

I won't go too far off on this tangent, but I would have to agree -- Too many feel entitled without earning it. There is always income mobility in the US, yet, some people refuse to take the time and effort to properly train and educate themselves for a better future. Yet that isn't their fault - its racism. it's the rich man overtaxing them. its bias. Whatever.

Its interesting that the USA also has the lowest levels of trust of others, which is also correlated with inequality. This view that others are lazy and undeserving is shown strongly in less equal societies.

I am not going to be able to convince you that violence, health and social problems are caused by the american dream, even though the data shows that is true. Instead all I can do is recommend you read "the spirit level" by Richard Wilkinson and Kate Pickett and hope that you do. Its got lots of great data and evidence showing causation alongside its correlated data based on world wide collected facts.

In this case the data shows that high amounts of violence are caused by mental illness which itself comes from high social status threats throughout the individuals life. Literally they have been ashamed all their life of their status, bullied to the point of breaking and then some of those individuals snap. That is what the world data says about the cause of violence in the USA. Its the most mental ill country in the world.

 

[cmdrdredd]

The data ignores that violent crime went up 42% after Australia took guns away as well.

"Those who would give up essential liberty, for a little temporary security deserve neither." To paraphrase Ben Franklin.

The fact is this. If you remove guns from honest people than only the dishonest who disobey the laws anyway will have them and that makes everyone a victim waiting to be next.

Edit: I think we are straying off topic but I would just likw to say one last thing. Video games don't make you a killer. Only your actions make you one. Further trying to point fingers at one countries economic policy as the reason people are wacko is essentially a wacko idea. Evil will always exist and there comes a point where you have to realize that and quit trying to make a nanny state because you are afraid of the .001% or less of the population who might be nuts, or might have a disturbed mind. You don't punish everyone because one joker thinks its fun to drive 120 on the highway when the speed limit is 65.

 

[blackened23]

Its interesting that the USA also has the lowest levels of trust of others, which is also correlated with inequality. This view that others are lazy and undeserving is shown strongly in less equal societies.

I am not going to be able to convince you that violence, health and social problems are caused by the american dream, even though the data shows that is true. Instead all I can do is recommend you read "the spirit level" by Richard Wilkinson and Kate Pickett and hope that you do. Its got lots of great data and evidence showing causation alongside its correlated data based on world wide collected facts.

In this case the data shows that high amounts of violence are caused by mental illness which itself comes from high social status threats throughout the individuals life. Literally they have been ashamed all their life of their status, bullied to the point of breaking and then some of those individuals snap. That is what the world data says about the cause of violence in the USA. Its the most mental ill country in the world.

So we should fix this problem by throwing money at everyone until all have equality, regardless of their efforts or aspirations. So regardless of whether one is lazy and unproductive, we should throw money at them so they don't become crazy. Furthermore, not throwing money at them will cause them to become bullied. If you say so, princess. :whiste:

Two problems exist. One - people don't have cajones anymore. Two - Because of this they deflect blame on everything EXCEPT the problem.. Nevermind the scumbag that killed all of those innocent kids, its the systems fault. Its societys fault. Its racism. Its bias! Videogames' fault.! Movies fault. ITS NOT HIS FAULT. THAT POOR GUY By the way. That guy was raised in a good home and was somewhat wealthy while growing up. There were no reports of him being bulled. He was just a scumbag. But, according to you this tragedy happened because he didn't have a shoulder to cry on. Whatever.

 

[BrightCandle]

So we should fix this problem by throwing money at everyone until all have equality, regardless of their efforts or aspirations. So regardless of whether one is lazy and unproductive, we should throw money at them so they don't become crazy. Furthermore, not throwing money at them will cause them to become bullied. If you say so, princess. :whiste:

Works in Switzerland. They have high taxes and redistribute wealth. Everyone is better off for it. They don't believe others are lazy and uninterested and thus have more of their population in useful pursuits. You believe others are lazy because of the great disparity in wealth in your country.

In Japan on the other hand they have low income disparity and hence low taxes. Both approaches produce very similar results and either would work. I suspect the Japan approach is much harder for the USA to follow however.

If as a country you are serious about reducing homicides, violence, improving life expectancy, improving child survival rates, reducing teenage pregency and improving social mobility then yes you should start to redistributed wealth. What if I told you you could reduce homicides to 1/10th of today's levels and reduce prison occupation equally and raise life expectancy by 5 years all without it costing you a penny? Seems to good to be true, but it does require a different approach to people.

Please read the book and argue on the data, its more constructive that way.

 

[blackened23]

Works in Switzerland. They have high taxes and redistribute wealth. Everyone is better off for it. They don't believe others are lazy and uninterested and thus have more of their population in useful pursuits. You believe others are lazy because of the great disparity in wealth in your country.

In Japan on the other hand they have low income disparity and hence low taxes. Both approaches produce very similar results and either would work. I suspect the Japan approach is much harder for the USA to follow however.

If as a country you are serious about reducing homicides, violence, improving life expectancy, improving child survival rates, reducing teenage pregency and improving social mobility then yes you should start to redistributed wealth. What if I told you you could reduce homicides to 1/10th of today's levels and reduce prison occupation equally and raise life expectancy by 5 years all without it costing you a penny? Seems to good to be true, but it does require a different approach to people.

Please read the book and argue on the data, its more constructive that way.

I assure you I have no plans on reading your feminine books.

Your opinion is your right but I think it is hilarious. You're blaming everything except the real problem. Let's talk about the Newtown tragedy again: I already mentioned that the guy was raised in a good, loving home from all reports - and he was not unwealthy. His family was very well off.

So much for your theory I guess? Again, according to you it wasn't HIS fault. It was OUR fault. We didn't give him a shoulder to cry on. Whatever pal.

 

[BrightCandle]

I am not saying it stops any individual tragedy that it doesn't do. But on average it will improve society dramatically and the number of these incidents would fall along with other serious social problems your country suffers from over time. It will take decades to repair the damage introduced since the mid 70s but other countries have succeeded in doing so.

Its interesting you call the book feminine, this level of "hyper masculinity" is also associated with certain social status threats. Clearly I have now threatened your perceived status and raised your hostility to an extent of indirect insults on my masculinity. You see how this works yet? That increased violence response to a simple assertion is weird so quickly isn't it? Turns out its not weird in countries with higher inequality, they raise to violence and insults faster.

I am trying to bring genuine debate and information, not insults to this discussion. Insults won't help and they won't impact me, they might cheapen your argument however. This forum is full of such distrust and hostility and I think that is largely because its frequented by the most hostile and least trusting people in the developed world. One day I hope more people understand that debates are best when all parties have basic respect for one and other. I think that would make a better place.