I'm a real, actual, law abiding gun owner, not the proverbial one thrown around in these arguments as a strawman. Don't throw your hands up and say there's just nothing we can do about these incidents on my account. I'll gladly jump through a few extra hoops if it helps stop this shit. As long as I can still own a firearm to defend me and mine then infringement not found. I am also not afraid of the CDC researching the issue and developing strategies on just how to address this. Stop all this dumbassary, you, me, and everyone else are all just as at risk as when the wrong people get their hands on guns.
UglyCasanova
Lifer
- Mar 25, 2001
- 19,275
- 1,361
- 126
So out of curiosity since the government is so good at banning stuff, how's the war on drugs coming along?
IMO the far far larger issue isn't 'hoops' but using a watch list with secretive qualifications, questionable oversight, and is almost completely opaque to the population as a manner to restrict a civil right. Not to mention that its already well documented that these types of watch or restricted lists are fraught with clerical errors and have no real way to distinguish between similar names. The process to be removed from one of these lists is also extremely long and convoluted. Many stories I have read involve 4-7 years of lawsuits and review before issues are fixed.
This isn't a fucking hoop to jump through
Bowfinger
Lifer
- Nov 17, 2002
- 15,776
- 392
- 126
This. Aside from the inevitable errors, it would be so easy to abuse and would give incentive to add more people to the watch list. It also seems like it could backfire. If you're a budding terrorist and want to know if the feds are on to you, try to buy a gun and see if you're flagged. Good intentions, but ill-considered.
Who the heck cares what "the world" loses faith in? Go deal with your own issues instead of worrying about ours.
lol, ok bud. We'll see how happy Americans are when no one gives a shit what they say. Russia has already turned its nose at America. That's no big deal, right?
Well then fix those issues by adding notifications, oversight, and an appeal process.
As a gun owner, I am much safer from having access more restricted for those that would do me harm with them than having easy access for myself to throw another gun after gun on my pile. And if you're arguing against that, you're not arguing rationality, you're just arguing "freedumb!"
Yes people this is what the republican party has handed to us. The inability of the federal govt to create a list in secret to deny people constitutional rights without due process. Oh the humanity! Even when Republicans manage to do the right thing the idiots of the world lambast them for it.
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Why stop there? If they are on this list lets also throw out their right to vote. Dont want no terrorists swaying elections. Or how about the 4th amendment? Wouldnt want to terrorists having the right to deny our peaceful govt from invading their homes. Freedom of speech? Terrorists shouldnt be allowed to speak out against our govt!
This is a horrible horrible proposed law. Should never allow the govt to restrict rights based on secretive bullshit lists.
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Sheik Yerbouti
Lifer
- Feb 16, 2005
- 14,030
- 5,321
- 136
Doc Savage Fan
Lifer
- Nov 30, 2006
- 15,456
- 389
- 121
True. My parents worked hard on me.
Does not change that the world is losing faith in America.
The gun obsession in the United States ranks almost as high as the get rich obsession. There is no political solution. It's the price of doing business. The freedoms resulting from a free flow and use of arms means that frequently people who you would rather not use guns can do so. If the mass shooting of those little kids in the CT school didn't rally folks around reform, it's hard to imagine that anything will. There just isn't the political will to make a major change = the status quo.
However many shootings there are, in terms of population the odds are in my favor that I won't be shot on any given day. I just accept it as a risk of living "the American way of life". And although gun deaths have remained flat for a couple decades, they are down significantly from 30 years ago.
These types of "mass shootings", however represent only a small fraction. Most gun deaths are either suicides, domestic violence or street crimes.
Gun nuts arguments are generally dubious - which is common in most polemics - but they do have the saving grace of allowing individuals to make their own choices. If one doesn't like those choices maybe it would be better to raise the culture level to where blowing people away is more a regretful last resort than an exercise in personal assertion.
Plus of course...the ordinary mass will never wear any form of disarmament: it is astounding that American liberals worry so much about things that are not going to change, have immensely rich resources profiting from the status quo, and are inbred to the marrow of the American Soul.
However many shootings there are, in terms of population the odds are in my favor that I won't be shot on any given day. I just accept it as a risk of living "the American way of life". And although gun deaths have remained flat for a couple decades, they are down significantly from 30 years ago.
These types of "mass shootings", however represent only a small fraction. Most gun deaths are either suicides, domestic violence or street crimes.
Gun nuts arguments are generally dubious - which is common in most polemics - but they do have the saving grace of allowing individuals to make their own choices. If one doesn't like those choices maybe it would be better to raise the culture level to where blowing people away is more a regretful last resort than an exercise in personal assertion.
Plus of course...the ordinary mass will never wear any form of disarmament: it is astounding that American liberals worry so much about things that are not going to change, have immensely rich resources profiting from the status quo, and are inbred to the marrow of the American Soul.
Oh duh - why didn't I think of that! It must just be so goddamn easy to do that. I mean its not like people have been fighting for years to try and fix those issues and have made next to no headway
Nope, it isn't. Frankly, I don't particularly care what other countries have to say about internal American issues. Screw them. They can deal with their own issues. The US is plenty capable of handling it's interests around the world as needed. If outsiders want to whine about an internal US matter, let them whine, nobody cares.
Proof that hard work doesn't always yield positive results
Who cares. We don't make internal policies based on the "faith" of people living in other countries.
You want to lead the world in foreign policy matters but can't handle cleaning up your own house. There is no incentive to follow America's leadership if the example they lead with is riddled with problems.
The same way that you question the good judgement of people that do stupid things, the world questions the judgement of America when it does stupid things.
The same way that you question the good judgement of people that do stupid things, the world questions the judgement of America when it does stupid things.
BoberFett
Lifer
- Oct 9, 1999
- 37,563
- 9
- 81
Of course they do. But you guys can't even agree that gun violence is a problem, much less that America HAS that problem.
Gun violence is a problem. Most sane people admit that. How to fix it is the debate.
fleshconsumed
Diamond Member
- Feb 21, 2002
- 6,483
- 2,352
- 136
The only question you need to ask is this: "would you be fine restricting voting rights or freedom of speech to people on the terrorist watch list or not?" If you're not OK with limiting other constitutional rights based on some terrorist watchlist that has zero judicial oversight, then you shouldn't be ok limiting the second amendment either.
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