Idiotic. If enough Democrats vote to pass tax cut extension for over 90% of Americans, and the Republicans block it with the filibuster, that's the *Republicans' fault*.
Idiotic. If enough Democrats vote to pass tax cut extension for over 90% of Americans, and the Republicans block it with the filibuster, that's the *Republicans' fault*.
First
Lifer
- Jun 3, 2002
- 10,518
- 271
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He didn't say that kiddie.
And no one is going to cry over a couple pulling in $250K with $100K in liquid assets. Boohoo.
Siddhartha
Lifer
- Oct 17, 1999
- 12,505
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I was thinking about starting a thread to discuss what exactly are the GOP's economic, domestic, and foreign policies. Do they have anything to offer besides saying no to Mr Obama and the Democrats?
The GOP fighting for tax cuts for the wealthiest shows that the Republicans is more than just the Anti-Obama Party. This gives the voter an idea of who they should vote for.
The GOP fighting for tax cuts for the wealthiest shows that the Republicans is more than just the Anti-Obama Party. This gives the voter an idea of who they should vote for.
That will never happen because of election year politics.
Both sides will continue to blame each other as usual.
The Democrats have as much interest as the Republicans do in not getting it passed.
Anyone who assumes otherwise is a moron.
1.) Democrats have yet to bring a bill to the table showing they don't care about middle class tax cuts .
2.) Even if the bill Democrats brings a bill to the table(which they have yet to do) that gets filibustered by Republicans and fails to pass, it's still the *Democrats* fault.
Your post doesn't make any sense.
If the Democrats really cared about tax cuts for the middle class, they'll pass it through reconciliation similarly to what they did with their health care bill and what Bush did with his wealthy tax cuts.
This notion that Republicans are responsible for letting tax cuts expire is nothing short of idiocy.
If Obama and the democrats really cared about tax cuts for the middle class as much as he preached about health care and as much as Bush preached for his wealthy tax cuts, he will pass a bill through whatever means possible(whether through the regular rules or by reconciliation) and it would become law.
When Bush's wealthy tax cuts was filibustered by Democrats, did he sit around bickering that it's the democrats fault that it wasn't passed?
No. He passed his tax cuts through reconciliation instead.
According to Obama:
A couple making $125k each is wealthy.
A person living single making $199k isn't.
Sounds peachy, lothar, except that repubs will need to allow some sort of vote to actually occur in the Senate for that to happen.
Bill exits HOR, moves to the Senate and is modified. If Repubs filibuster at that point, it's dead, and reconciliation is moot.
If Senatorial Repubs accept the fact that they're beat, as was the case with Dems and Reagan tax cuts, they'll pass the modified bill and Dems will get their way in reconciliation.
Dems may not play it that way at all, rather choosing to stuff it in the face of the Repubs who can either back down or be the bad guys. Only the most thoroughly indoctrinated Righties could possibly see it any other way, and they won't be voting for Dems, anyway.
Attributing anti middle class motive to the fact that Dems have yet to put a bill on the table is meaningless drivel. There's plenty of time remaining before the election. Holding off to the end just gives Dems a fresh victory to take to the polls, regardless of the outcome. If Repubs filibuster, they lose. If they don't, Dems win.
Boehner is already squealing, and McConnell won't be far behind. I figure they'll choke it down, whining the whole time.
It's not like they have any actual principles, anyway.
Bill exits HOR, moves to the Senate and is modified. If Repubs filibuster at that point, it's dead, and reconciliation is moot.
If Senatorial Repubs accept the fact that they're beat, as was the case with Dems and Reagan tax cuts, they'll pass the modified bill and Dems will get their way in reconciliation.
Dems may not play it that way at all, rather choosing to stuff it in the face of the Repubs who can either back down or be the bad guys. Only the most thoroughly indoctrinated Righties could possibly see it any other way, and they won't be voting for Dems, anyway.
Attributing anti middle class motive to the fact that Dems have yet to put a bill on the table is meaningless drivel. There's plenty of time remaining before the election. Holding off to the end just gives Dems a fresh victory to take to the polls, regardless of the outcome. If Repubs filibuster, they lose. If they don't, Dems win.
Boehner is already squealing, and McConnell won't be far behind. I figure they'll choke it down, whining the whole time.
It's not like they have any actual principles, anyway.
- Nov 4, 2009
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LOL. Don't make me fucking laugh.
They are rich, and that's EXACTLY why they DON'T "deserve" some of the same shit, like tax breaks, food stamps, and welfare.
As a liberal, I can just see you Republicans are not only HOLY FUCKING SELF-INTERESTED D-BAGS, but also RETARDED as FUCK.
Watch as your mansions and cars and your wife get raped when the 90% of the population decides to declare war on your shit. History repeats itself, again and again.
Why the fuck do you think Democrats support Welfare and shit? Oh 'cuz of the goodness in their hearts? For many, it's 'cuz they got a fucking High School Education and would rather give Welfare to the Blacks and Ghettos rather than have to face carjackings.
FUCK the absolutely retardation of Republicans really is on a retarded level.
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- Nov 4, 2009
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EXACTAFUCKINGLUTELY!!!
Fucking stupid Republicans should just go join a cult and become Zombies.
/Watching Resident Evil again.
- Nov 4, 2009
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- Nov 4, 2009
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Good one. Except I honestly don't think that's completely true. They have America to thanks 100% for getting to where they are, yet they don't appreciate any of it. Instead, they'd ship the Tech Support off to India.
WTF are you talking about? They get a refund at the end of the year. If you are poor and have a couple of children, you can probably claim EIC, which means that you will have no tax liability if their children's exemptions are claimed.
Hell, let the tax cuts expire and get rid of EIC. Poor people need to pay their share. Since poor people cannot manage their finances, it's better to have the government manage it for them.
- Nov 4, 2009
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Hmmm I would like my $20,000+ Tax Refund please.
I am happy if I don't have to pay more.
They can write and pass a bill for what the Republicans want(tax cuts for everybody), and go through reconciliation to remove it.
How do you think the Louisiana purchase and Corn husker kickback were removed from the health care bill?
Once Mary Landrieu and Ben Nelson voted for the original Senate health care bill, Obama and the remaining Democrats didn't need their vote any longer on health care and removed it through reconciliation.
If Obama and Democrats pass the bill that Republicans want, Democrats will still get their way in the reconciliation process and can remove the wealthy tax cuts that Republicans added to the bill with a simple majority vote.
There's nothing "peachy" about that.
I was about to jump on you for the above, which is just ridiculous, and is still wrong (if a burglar breaks in your house, it's your fault for not having better locks), but:
You went on to raise a very good question why Democrats don't use reconciliation to pass their policy (which Republicans are opposing which is *their* fault).
So, I have a question into Senator Boxer's office asking for an answer. It mentions that reconciliation is how the Republicans got THEIR cuts passed in the first place.
Craig, let us know if you manage to get a reply. I too would like to know why this hasn't been pursued by way of budget reconciliation thus far.
- wolf
- wolf
I'll be happy to; but it seems that Senators' offices don't answer questions over the phone generally (the House seems better about this), and so it's a written turnaround time.
Your analogy is false for that scenario.
Be sure to also email the DNC as well. Post their responses here(or just PM them to me).
What they probably don't want to tell you is this:
"We plan to not bring anything to the table(and/or pass them through reconciliation) before the election so that we can blame Republicans for preventing middle class tax cuts to win mid-term elections(or reduce our possible losses)"
Similarly, the Republicans want them to expire under the Democrats/Obama's watch and will preach "See, Obama and his Democrats increased your taxes, elect us and you will receive a tax cut".
Which message will voters believe in November?
I have no idea, but I hope you don't end up accusing me of having "centrist" bias since I'm clearly able to see things from both angles, unlike some of the other posts here from the left and right.
Thump553
Lifer
- Jun 2, 2000
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It is truly a masterful piece of PR spin for the GOP to be able to sell a 3% marginal tax increase on annual ordinary income over $250,000 as a horrific tax increase that will crush small business and the economy. I know lots of small business people (myself included) and this doesn't even appear on our radar screens as an issue.
And all this bleating about high taxes-the top bracket was 94% when I was a kid, under that socialist Eisenhower. The top bracket rate is now slightly over a third of that rate.
And all this bleating about high taxes-the top bracket was 94% when I was a kid, under that socialist Eisenhower. The top bracket rate is now slightly over a third of that rate.
That's likely exactly it. I think Boehner had the smart play here, and if the rest of the R's had followed his lead it would have completely undermined the contention. But the party of no had to stay true to form and further solidify perceptions of obstructionism, classism, and holding tax cuts hostage.
Patranus
Diamond Member
- Apr 15, 2007
- 9,280
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LOL - Um....Its THEIR money to being with. Talk about ME ME ME. "progressives" are all about ME.
Now, riddle me this, how does letting someone keep THEIR money prevent you from succeeding?
(Hint: It doesn't)
Once again, as in previous threads, it's quite apparent that a lot of you make the same mistake that computer geeks make when evaluating software/devices etc. They assume that the average consumer thinks like them and evaluates like them.
The average voter does not give a crap about the inner workings of congress, about what was set to expire, why and when, and other such technicalities. Do you think the average joe cares about 41 senators, filibusters, reconciliation and all that jazz?
That's all interesting stuff for us to discuss, but the bottom line is that when the average voter gets kicked in the nuts (ie, the wallet) and their taxes go up, they are going to blame whoever they think is "in charge", and that generally starts with the party in the white house, whether or not it's warranted. Just like the president gets blamed for "the economy" when he generally has fairly little actual control over it.
The repubs realize this, and they know that if everyone's taxes go up, they're going to very easily use the spin machine to blame "the usual tax and spend liberals, starting with Obama". As we're already seeing now, when the economy sucks, that is a VERY effective tactic.
The average voter does not give a crap about the inner workings of congress, about what was set to expire, why and when, and other such technicalities. Do you think the average joe cares about 41 senators, filibusters, reconciliation and all that jazz?
That's all interesting stuff for us to discuss, but the bottom line is that when the average voter gets kicked in the nuts (ie, the wallet) and their taxes go up, they are going to blame whoever they think is "in charge", and that generally starts with the party in the white house, whether or not it's warranted. Just like the president gets blamed for "the economy" when he generally has fairly little actual control over it.
The repubs realize this, and they know that if everyone's taxes go up, they're going to very easily use the spin machine to blame "the usual tax and spend liberals, starting with Obama". As we're already seeing now, when the economy sucks, that is a VERY effective tactic.
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