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Senate reaches tentative $14 bill bailout for auto industry, and then it died

E

Eeezee

Diamond Member
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/200...n_go_co/congress_autos

I don't get it. It feels like we rushed the $700 billion Wallstreet bailout out in a week, maybe two tops. We've been talking about the auto industry bailout for over a month, and the final agreement was 2% of the Wallstreet bailout.

Republicans were directly challenging Bush, arguing that any support for the domestic auto industry should carry significant, specific concessions from autoworkers and creditors. They are also bitterly opposed to tougher environmental rules carmakers would have to meet as part of the House-passed version of the rescue package ? something that also faces some Democratic opposition.

A Senate version of the bill omits the environmental provision.
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Wait, the Republicans' primary concern was the inclusion of tougher environmental rules? At first I was glad that the GOP was against the auto industry bailout, yet now it turns out they were opposed for all of the wrong reasons.

Still, why are we thinking of giving these people $14 billion? This is ridiculous. If I open a restaurant that serves shitty food and nears bankruptcy, will the government bail me out, too?
 
If your restaurant was supporting a large fraction of employment in the country, then yes it might be in the public interest to bail you out also.
 
Originally posted by: Farang
If your restaurant was supporting a large fraction of employment in the country, then yes it might be in the public interest to bail you out also.
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I was going to say "If your restaurant was feeding many of those auto workers, then you are getting the bailout indirectly" (at least for awhile).
 
Will GM, Chrysler, and possibly Ford really be able to turn themselves around in the timeframe this money is supposed to last them, or will they just be begging for another handout later next year? I say *possibly* Ford because they claimed they didn't need the bailout money right now.
 
That's my boy! Senator Mitch McConnel! Go baby, go!

The "built to fail" environmental restrictions are what needed to go.
 
Originally posted by: Special K
Will GM, Chrysler, and possibly Ford really be able to turn themselves around in the timeframe this money is supposed to last them, or will they just be begging for another handout later next year? I say *possibly* Ford because they claimed they didn't need the bailout money right now.
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They're going to need more. That figure has already been floated. This money is coming from the monies that had already been approved by Congress for re-tooling for more efficient cars. It's the only way it could be done in the political climate we're in. But as far as their future, a lot depends on the way the economy goes. We're in deep shit. Probably more that we know.

I think you're going to be surprised how much cutting is going to be done internally by all parties to keep these companies afloat. The "Car Czar" position is a good thing. If he or she is empowered enough, I feel a turnaround will happen. I know the general public does not believe it, but all the pieces were falling in place for these companies. The financial meltdown dealt them a deadly blow. But this is a good thing, because it has forced them to deal with this head on and right now.


 
Originally posted by: Special K
Will GM, Chrysler, and possibly Ford really be able to turn themselves around in the timeframe this money is supposed to last them, or will they just be begging for another handout later next year? I say *possibly* Ford because they claimed they didn't need the bailout money right now.
Click to expand...

The real reason the automakers came to Washington in the first place was to get through 2009 because they felt the the concessions they negotiated in 2007 wouldn't really see fruition until 2010.

Now, it seems congress is putting the concessions on a fast track to "right now."

If they sold 17 million vehicles next year like they did for the past 8 years the answer would be a, yes. Whether these concessions make them viable only selling 11 million vehicles is something only a bean counter can tell you.
 
Originally posted by: spidey07
That's my boy! Senator Mitch McConnel! Go baby, go!

The "built to fail" environmental restrictions are what needed to go.
Click to expand...

Your personal affection for politicians is creepy. This is the second time I've seen you do this.
 
It doesn't matter how much they get, they'll be going bankrupt later, with the possible exception of Ford. Poorly run companies with no real ability to compete against quality manufacturers like Toyota, Honda, and Nissan. The bailout will keep taxdollars coming into the US government, and help the CEOs and upper level management of these companies abscond with your money before a delayed bankruptcy.
 
why did they give 700 billion to the banks? Why did you vote for someone in November who voted for that bailout?
 
Originally posted by: Dari
Originally posted by: spidey07
That's my boy! Senator Mitch McConnel! Go baby, go!

The "built to fail" environmental restrictions are what needed to go.
Click to expand...

Your personal affection for politicians is creepy. This is the second time I've seen you do this.
Click to expand...

So communicating with my local/state/federal representatives to provide representative gubment is a bad thing? I'm sure that is a point for another thread but I do what I can.

 
Originally posted by: loki8481
isn't the GOP also pushing a bunch of concessions from the union?
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Yep and that looks like what broke down this new deal just now too. The Onion...er...union told them no on swift wage cuts so the deal is currently off. Fuck the UAW.
 
I can't believe that holding onto wages is more important that keeping your job. If the auto industry were a thriving business then I'd tell anyone wanting wage concessions to go take a hike. These guys are at the feet of congress begging for a handout and when one is offered with some strings they turn their noses up to it. Now I believe that they deserve to die a swift death. Congress should fund ford after the other two collapse.
 
Originally posted by: Puffnstuff
I can't believe that holding onto wages is more important that keeping your job. If the auto industry were a thriving business then I'd tell anyone wanting wage concessions to go take a hike. These guys are at the feet of congress begging for a handout and when one is offered with some strings they turn their noses up to it. Now I believe that they deserve to die a swift death. Congress should fund ford after the other two collapse.
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yeah they should be grateful some wasteful politician in washington wants to slash their wages.
 
Chrysler paid back their loans years early. Worst case the gov't seizes their property to get back the $14B or whatever it ends up being given that these companies have massive, valuable collateral.
 
Originally posted by: spidey07
Originally posted by: Dari
Originally posted by: spidey07
That's my boy! Senator Mitch McConnel! Go baby, go!

The "built to fail" environmental restrictions are what needed to go.
Click to expand...

Your personal affection for politicians is creepy. This is the second time I've seen you do this.
Click to expand...

So communicating with my local/state/federal representatives to provide representative gubment is a bad thing? I'm sure that is a point for another thread but I do what I can.
Click to expand...

They're doing their jobs, as they should. But to take it personal is just weird in my book.
 
Originally posted by: Farang
If your restaurant was supporting a large fraction of employment in the country, then yes it might be in the public interest to bail you out also.
Click to expand...

It is not in the public interest to uphold failed industry. Why not sink the whole ship instead of sealing the bulkhead at the first leak? Only if suicide is your interest, then this is a good idea. Where do you draw the line, and HOW does Congress have the authority NOT to treat people equally?

Will you bailout KB Toys. The Lumber industry? Everyone else + dog? No. You?re selectively deciding who succeeds and who fails. How is THIS going to create certainty within the markets when success and failure is determined in the halls of Congress by who gets the public treasury?

Until they stop meddling this is only going to get worse.
 
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
OP needs to update the title, it died.
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Government expansion is only delayed, rest assured the next Congress will take up this cause with fewer opponents within their halls.
 
The "thing" died in the Senate because the UAW will not concede to lower wages, yet they want the public to fund them! The bill is padded with Justices' pay raise and something with the transit company. And finally the environmental clauses which are directly against the goal of the Big 3 to survive and make a profit. This thing called Big 3 bailout is nothing but a UAW bailout. What a joke?
 
Don't worry about it. We didn't seem to have a problem a rush job to bail out AIG for 365Billion ... I don't get it, why all the commotion and big delays for a measly 14B?

If it doesn't pass today, they will pass it tomorrow.
 
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