Senate health bill targets ‘Cadillac’ plans but can end up hitting middle class hard.

[1prophet]

Senate health bill targets ‘Cadillac’ plans
Legislation would impose 40 percent tax on premiums above threshold

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/34113947/ns/health-health_care/ rest of article at link.

Schoolteacher Kinzi Blair makes only $46,000 a year, but she has what many would consider a "Cadillac" health plan, now targeted for a big tax increase by health reformers.

She has $10 copays and no deductible. She gets generic prescription drugs for $10. Her plan covers mental health counseling, organ transplants, acupuncture. It covers speech therapy for preschoolers and in vitro fertilization.

Sound pretty good?

It surely must to millions of Americans who pay high deductibles, hundreds of dollars for prescription drugs or who have no insurance at all. Blair's circumstance illustrates the debate over taxes and fairness when it comes to health reform.

"For me, it's security," Blair says. "I'm thankful I'm in a job where there is health insurance."

Taxing plans like hers is unfair, says Blair, a kindergarten teacher in San Jose, Calif. Like 57 percent of Americans surveyed in a recent Associated Press poll, she favors a new income tax on wealthy Americans, which the House would impose in its bill to pay for expanding insurance coverage to millions.

But the Senate takes a different approach, including an unprecedented tax on the health insurance of people like Blair. The Senate plan would also increase the Medicare payroll tax for high-income Americans and tax elective cosmetic surgery.

The tax on high-dollar health plans would hit only a few very wealthy Americans and many more in the middle class, experts agree. But it also might bring down health care costs by discouraging companies from offering coverage with so many benefits.

Whatever method is chosen to pay for health reform, Congress and President Barack Obama must persuade Americans about its fairness. When it comes to taxes, Americans are hard to convince.

As usual pretend to aim for the rich but end up hitting the middle class,

one of the main reasons people (like Schoolteacher Kinzi Blair) put up with lower pay in the civil service fields is because of the so called 'Cadillac' benefits, let's see what happens if that is now taken away. (Although I doubt the Teachers, Police, Firemen, etc. Unions are just going to stand still on this)

As for the rich or for those that can afford it, there is always the rapidly growing new “concierge” arrangement.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/34019606/ns/health-health_care/?ns=health-health_care rest of article at link

ANAHEIM, Calif. - When Bob Goodrich’s longtime doctor started providing premium care only to patients who paid a $1,600 annual fee, the 63-year-old felt he had no choice but to write a check.

His wife, Marjorie, 64, was sick with a serious adrenal disorder and nervous about having to switch doctors. And she was drawn to the longer appointments, personal attention and 24/7 access that Dr. Susan Debin promised the new “concierge” arrangement would provide.

But with already-high monthly insurance premiums and constant cash outlays for co-payments and deductibles, the family couldn’t afford two elite medical memberships.

So Goodrich, a retired parks director, gambled that his own high blood pressure wouldn’t get worse. He paid the fee for his wife — but not for himself.

“I’m old school,” he said. “The women and the children go in the lifeboat first.”

The Goodriches’ dilemma is becoming more common as a growing number of doctors enact their own brand of health reform. These physicians are opting out of the system, with some doctors dumping insurance companies altogether and others forcing patients to pay thousands of dollars in cash to keep the care they’re accustomed to.

Doctors often tout this model as “concierge” care — you get more if you pay more. But for some patients, the flip side of this arrangement feels more like pay more or get less

“It did leave me up the creek,” said Lilly Manning, 74, of Vienna, Va., who left her doctor of 15 years after he began charging patients $1,500 a year to remain in his practice. “I don’t think it’s right. I think a doctor should take anybody.”

 

[TruePaige]

People who mention the "concierge" arrangement like it is a solution for the middle class and claims the middle class is getting screwed by taxing high end health plans do not understand who is middle class.

 

[woodie1]

And people think UHC will be free and hold down medical costs. There are doctors who already limit the number of Medicare patients they see because the current payment doesn't cover their costs. If Congress reduces the fee paid in an effort to pay for UHC there will be even fewer doctors willing to see Medicare patients.

 

[charrison]

two things will happen with this plan.

1. It will collect much less revenue that expected as people will switch to lower cost plans.
2. Eventually it will become a new alternative minimum tax which affect more people than intended

 

[shadow9d9]

The more people on the government plan, the more insurance costs will go down, and people will have to be compensated with the savings.

Health insurance should be the same for every American.

 

[shadow9d9]

And people think UHC will be free and hold down medical costs. There are doctors who already limit the number of Medicare patients they see because the current payment doesn't cover their costs. If Congress reduces the fee paid in an effort to pay for UHC there will be even fewer doctors willing to see Medicare patients.

UHC does not equal medicare.

Medicare takes care of the oldest and sickest of our country.

To compare that to the healthcare of the younger half is disingenuous at best.

 

[woodie1]

The more people on the government plan, the more insurance costs will go down, and people will have to be compensated with the savings.

Health insurance should be the same for every American.

Could I interest you in a bridge?

 

[woodie1]

UHC does not equal medicare.

Medicare takes care of the oldest and sickest of our country.

To compare that to the healthcare of the younger half is disingenuous at best.

Did you not read the UHC part that reduces Medicare payments to pay for the cost of this UHC plan? I guess not.

 

[Zorkorist]

UHC does not equal medicare.

Medicare takes care of the oldest and sickest of our country.

To compare that to the healthcare of the younger half is disingenuous at best.

The only thing the younger half are going to get is more taxes.

 

[Zorkorist]

I'm reminded of Logan's Run...

Yellows "10-15" years old are taxed, X
Greens "16-24" are taxed more
Reds "25-36" are taxed too much, and are killed when they run.

Nobody is 37.

-John

 

[shadow9d9]

Did you not read the UHC part that reduces Medicare payments to pay for the cost of this UHC plan? I guess not.

There is no UHC plan... did you read anything in the news for the last 9 months?

As for the "public option" watered down plan and the reduction in Medicare, you have Republicans to thank for that... they require such "compromise" for America to take a step forward.. in time Medicare can be restored as well.

 

[shadow9d9]

The only thing the younger half are going to get is more taxes.

FEAR!

Or... they won't get denied insurance, won't have to worry about pre-existing conditions, will have a government plan to compete with private plans, and won't have to worry about insurance skyrocketing your cost to purge you.

 

[shadow9d9]

Could I interest you in a bridge?

Could I offer you some fear and paranoia propaganda?

 

[Zorkorist]

FEAR!

Or... they won't get denied insurance, won't have to worry about pre-existing conditions, will have a government plan to compete with private plans, and won't have to worry about insurance skyrocketing your cost to purge you.

UTOPIA!

Shadow, it is bad out there, and getting worse.

 

[Zorkorist]

BTW, when is the last time you saw someone starve to death?

 

[shadow9d9]

UTOPIA!

Shadow, it is bad out there, and getting worse.

So, instead of refuting any of these incredible advantages that young people will get, you just keep pushing on the fear? Is that ALL you fools have?

-Won't be denied coverage.
-Won't be denied pre-existing conditions
-Will not be dropped from coverage due to some made up pre-existing condition" they determined you to have
-Will not have your premium quintupled to get you to leave the insurance

HUGE benefits. Whenever presented with facts, just run away and start up another thread... or just keep pushing the fear button. The one trick pony.

 

[Zorkorist]

Will be taxed...

That's the great equalizer, Shadow.

They'll pay for every penny of their coverage, and a good portion of my coverage, because I am older.

When you were young, and saw yor paycheck, it was like "Alright!" They will see they're paycheck and wonder how they can feed their kids...

But it's OK... your Government can feed their kids. <sad>

 

[Zorkorist]

You add in the fucking Goverment Beurocracy and waste, and it makes me angry as hell that the Government is going to institute screwing kids under my watch!

Fucking ridiculous, and irresponsible to throw it all on today's kids.

 

[Zebo]

It's funny how democrats can't even frame the debate. Like they really want to. You don;t have to raise taxes at all on the "rich" just tax all income including cap gains like income tax and remove bereavement cap on SS the rich currently have. But no Democrats in power are rich and their sponsors are too so this is never talked about so most taxes remain regressive whereby this poor teacher pays a disproportionate share of her income in Federal, state, local, sales and excise taxes than the richest Americans.

 

[Zorkorist]

They have their sights set on bigger targets, like making everyone over 21 buy health insurance.

Can you imagine the windfall, when 21-40 year olds have to buy insurance they don't need?

 

[Zorkorist]

Health Care reform is a huge boondagle. Remember Hilary Clinton trying to do it, in the 90s?

The only thing wrong with today's health system is the Government and Insurance and Lawyers.

Gee, aren't those the folks saying that they will "fix it for us?" now with Health Care Reform?!

The Doctor's are OK... Nurses? Any one have a problem with the nurses?

It's the fucking Government, Insurance Companies, and Lawyers.

 

[Zorkorist]

Isn't it seriously funny, that the health care "crisis" has nothing to do with Doctor's?

Seriously, nothing to do with Doctor's... it's all because of Government, Insurance Companies and Lawyers.

And now, Government, Insurance Companies and Lawyers are going to draft new laws?!

 

[dmcowen674]

They have their sights set on bigger targets, like making everyone over 21 buy health insurance.

Can you imagine the windfall, when 21-40 year olds have to buy insurance they don't need?

Good, hope you are held down and forced to pay up bitch.

 

[Zorkorist]

I know, I know... it is the nurses. They look so good-hearted and sweet, but really they are blood-thirsty cannibals that only want some of your liver, and favah beans, along with a nice Chianti.

Damn, I scared myself.

But, anyway, it's the Government, Insurance Companies, and Lawyers that want to drink a nice Chianti.

 

[Zorkorist]

Good, hope you are held down and forced to pay up bitch.

Yeah, Yeah... that's the only way they are gonna get me to pay up insurance.

Don't tase me bro!