Sen. Bernie Sanders introduces Estate Tax bill, commentary

[Pulsar]

My Grandfather and Grandmother owned a farm. The same farm that had been in my family since 1825. The cornerstone on the farmhouse was 1847. The addition was built in 1877. My great-grandparents, my grandparents, and my parents were born in that farmhouse.

They raised a variety of crops, had cows, chickens, etc. They refused to take out loans, because my grandparents lived through the great depression. They had their money in 14 different banks - because they remembered what happened in the banking crisis back then. For nearly 200 years, my family farmed and slowly bought parcels of land around them as they could afford them to increase the size of their farm.

When they died, we lost that farm. It was sold to pay for the estate tax. Fuck you and your soul-less "tax the wealthy" ideas. You and your ilk took my heritage, the land that 3 generations of my family grew up on. The land my father wanted to continue to farm.

I know those dates because I have the cornerstones in my living room. The first thing the new corporate farm-owner did was raze the farmhouse for extra crop-growing room, along with our old strawberry and blackberry patch and the maple we had a tire swing hanging from. He also wiped out the old dead tree that we had collected honey from for nearly 50 years. He let me have the cornerstones because he really didn't care.

 

[MotF Bane]

My Grandfather and Grandmother owned a farm. The same farm that had been in my family since 1825. The cornerstone on the farmhouse was 1847. The addition was built in 1877. My great-grandparents, my grandparents, and my parents were born in that farmhouse.

They raised a variety of crops, had cows, chickens, etc. They refused to take out loans, because my grandparents lived through the great depression. They had their money in 14 different banks - because they remembered what happened in the banking crisis back then. For nearly 200 years, my family farmed and slowly bought parcels of land around them as they could afford them to increase the size of their farm.

When they died, we lost that farm. It was sold to pay for the estate tax. Fuck you and your soul-less "tax the wealthy" ideas. You and your ilk took my heritage, the land that 3 generations of my family grew up on. The land my father wanted to continue to farm.

I know those dates because I have the cornerstones in my living room. The first thing the new corporate farm-owner did was raze the farmhouse for extra crop-growing room, along with our old strawberry and blackberry patch and the maple we had a tire swing hanging from. He also wiped out the old dead tree that we had collected honey from for nearly 50 years. He let me have the cornerstones because he really didn't care.

D:

 

[Vette73]

My Grandfather and Grandmother owned a farm. The same farm that had been in my family since 1825. The cornerstone on the farmhouse was 1847. The addition was built in 1877. My great-grandparents, my grandparents, and my parents were born in that farmhouse.

They raised a variety of crops, had cows, chickens, etc. They refused to take out loans, because my grandparents lived through the great depression. They had their money in 14 different banks - because they remembered what happened in the banking crisis back then. For nearly 200 years, my family farmed and slowly bought parcels of land around them as they could afford them to increase the size of their farm.

When they died, we lost that farm. It was sold to pay for the estate tax. Fuck you and your soul-less "tax the wealthy" ideas. You and your ilk took my heritage, the land that 3 generations of my family grew up on. The land my father wanted to continue to farm.

I know those dates because I have the cornerstones in my living room. The first thing the new corporate farm-owner did was raze the farmhouse for extra crop-growing room, along with our old strawberry and blackberry patch and the maple we had a tire swing hanging from. He also wiped out the old dead tree that we had collected honey from for nearly 50 years. He let me have the cornerstones because he really didn't care.

What was the year sold, address, and full story?
There were exemptions built into the old estate tax for family farms, how come they did not work for your family farm?


Estate Tax Breaks Available to Family Farms
http://www.ctj.org/pdf/farm0606.pdf

 

[CycloWizard]

I have still never had anyone give me any justification for an estate tax. All Sanders does here is throw out a sob story about how the rich are getting richer and the poor are not. He then skips straight to the chase: "This bill ensures that the wealthiest 0.3 percent of Americans pays their fair share of estate taxes, while making sure that 99.7 percent of Americans never have to pay a dime when they lose a loved one." How is anything in that sentence fair at all? Only the wealthy should have to pay a dime when they lose a loved one? I also don't see anything in the Constitution about the government "protecting us from dynasties," so what is the justification for such a tax?

 

[Pulsar]

What was the year sold, address, and full story?
There were exemptions built into the old estate tax for family farms, how come they did not work for your family farm?


Estate Tax Breaks Available to Family Farms
http://www.ctj.org/pdf/farm0606.pdf

I just gave you the full story. The farm was over 800 acres, and my grandparents died in 2005 and 2006, respectively. In 2003 and 2004, golf courses were built on 2 sides of the property.

You take a wild guess what the government decided it was worth.

Of course, they tried to piecemeal it off to individual buyers, but given the timing you can imagine how well that went. Their only option in the end was to sell the remaining portion to a big buyer (corporate), who knew the situation they were in and leveraged it against them telling them that it was either all or nothing and offering them an obscenely low amount of money. He had already tried screwing them over once by making an offer with a small deposit of $40k, then stringing them along for the maximum allowed time then forfeiting the offer and lowering it drastically - essentially trying to run them out of time because he knew their financial situation.

 

[drebo]

This "fair share" bullshit pisses me off.

It is NOT the government's job to decide how wealthy people should be. The government's job is to make sure everyone has the OPPORTUNITY to be as wealthy as everyone else, not to make it so they are.

When, exactly, was the government given the right to take everyone's money and redistribute it as they saw fit?

 

[MotF Bane]

I just gave you the full story. The farm was over 800 acres, and my grandparents died in 2005 and 2006, respectively. In 2003 and 2004, golf courses were built on 2 sides of the property.

You take a wild guess what the government decided it was worth.

Of course, they tried to piecemeal it off to individual buyers, but given the timing you can imagine how well that went. Their only option in the end was to sell the remaining portion to a big buyer (corporate), who knew the situation they were in and leveraged it against them telling them that it was either all or nothing and offering them an obscenely low amount of money. He had already tried screwing them over once by making an offer with a small deposit of $40k, then stringing them along for the maximum allowed time then forfeiting the offer and lowering it drastically - essentially trying to run them out of time because he knew their financial situation.

I'm a bit surprised the town/city didn't just redistrict under them and close the farm.

 

[Patranus]

This "fair share" bullshit pisses me off.

It is NOT the government's job to decide how wealthy people should be. The government's job is to make sure everyone has the OPPORTUNITY to be as wealthy as everyone else, not to make it so they are.

When, exactly, was the government given the right to take everyone's money and redistribute it as they saw fit?

Yup.

 

[Sinsear]

The .3% get the same tax-free 3.5 million dollar estate that everyone does. You childish ideologues who use labels like 'eliminates property rights' to any tax are the problem.

No, the problem is douchebags like you. You just cant stand that someone is better off than you.

 

[Jhhnn]

So cut to the chase, Pulsar- what were the proceeds from the sale of the property and the total estate taxes paid?

Why didn't your family take advantage of the rules Marlin 1975 linked above?

 

[manimal]

My problem with the estate tax is I have already payed taxes on that wealth. Three or four times in some cases....


The 3.5 M should be raised to 5-7M so small businesses can stay in families.

 

[Slew Foot]

WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!

Im a fat lazy poor piece of shit! Tax other people with a job so I can have my 99 weeks of unemployment!!!

 

[Kirby]

I'd feel a lot better about taxes if I felt the funds were being used correctly.

 

[CycloWizard]

I'm still waiting for anyone to tell me why the government has more of a right to my dying relative's money than I do. This is the basic premise of the estate tax, and is explicitly mentioned in the OP's article as such, though he fails to offer any justification for his position.

 

[manimal]

I'm still waiting for anyone to tell me why the government has more of a right to my dying relative's money than I do. This is the basic premise of the estate tax, and is explicitly mentioned in the OP's article as such, though he fails to offer any justification for his position.

Its also a question of legacy. Who has the right to that legacy? Them or my children.....

 

[Craig234]

Its also a question of legacy. Who has the right to that legacy? Them or my children.....

Every dollar ever taxes takes away from that 'legacy' in theory. Guess what - your 'legacy' comes in second place to the need of citizens who are using their own money now.

Why don't you name for me the citizen who should give up their own hard earned money so your 'legacy' of over $3.5 million can keep every cent of its money?

How about you pay more taxes personally to replace the Estate Tax? You say 'your children', as if you have over $3.5 million to give them.

 

[Genx87]

My favorite US Senator, Bernie Sanders, has introduced a bill on the Estate Tax.

He summarize much of the case for it pretty well:



He doesn't get much into the role the tax has in moderating the growth of dynasty and the benefits to a more competitive economy and so on, but he's got the right basic approach.

We have nutty ideologues who practically want to abolish taxes who would turn the US into an oligarchy, as Sanders says, when citizens are again serfs.

That because the tax hasnt moderated shit. Look at its historical intake. About 30 billion a year for the past 40 years. Citizens wont become serfs because we lack an estate tax. We will become serfs because we will vote the political class the right to run our lives and confiscate our wealth in the process.

 

[Craig234]

That because the tax hasnt moderated shit. Look at its historical intake. About 30 billion a year for the past 40 years. Citizens wont become serfs because we lack an estate tax. We will become serfs because we will vote the political class the right to run our lives and confiscate our wealth in the process.

Wrong. That's an ignorant ideology talking, not anything else.

Look, if you want to argue it's not big enough, we can talk. You have a point that it might be inadequate, but it's a help.

We used to have even greater concentration of wealth, if you remember the 'big names' - IIRC, for example, 40% of all commercial loans in the US went through J. P. Morgan at one point. The Senate used to be called the 'Millionare's Club' and was understood to represent the financial elites (which is why one of the progress reforms was to make it popularly elected by the people).

After FDR, including the Estate Tax, the concentration of wealth reduced; and the economy improved, with more access and opportunity for more people.

The concentration remained lower until recent years under the Bush borrowed tax cuts,when it hit a high not seen since just before the Great Depression.

The Estate Tax is probably the best tax we have, IMO, and helps even if it's not enough.

You are quite confused about the risk of tyranny in the US - it's the private sector, the government is only involved insofar as an overly powerful private sector corrupts it.

The problem is the 'Millionares Club' instead of Bernie Sanders - not the fact there's a Senate, or that the Senate is making itself billionares even in corrupt times.

 

[ichy]

I'd actually be ok with bringing back the estate tax if they used the money to lower income taxes or reduce the deficit, but you can be sure that it'll be squandered on some boondogle social program instead, or used to fill the black hole of unsustainable Social Security and Medicare budgets.

BTW, I find it hilarious yet sad that anyone could call a self-proclaimed socialist his favorite senator.

 

[Linflas]

This "fair share" bullshit pisses me off.

It is NOT the government's job to decide how wealthy people should be. The government's job is to make sure everyone has the OPPORTUNITY to be as wealthy as everyone else, not to make it so they are.

When, exactly, was the government given the right to take everyone's money and redistribute it as they saw fit?

The first step took place February 3, 1913 and the completion took place March 4, 1933.

 

[Turin39789]

Just as our founding fathers envisioned it, preventing the rebirth of aristocracy since 1776.

 

[Genx87]

Wrong. That's an ignorant ideology talking, not anything else.

Look, if you want to argue it's not big enough, we can talk. You have a point that it might be inadequate, but it's a help.

We used to have even greater concentration of wealth, if you remember the 'big names' - IIRC, for example, 40% of all commercial loans in the US went through J. P. Morgan at one point. The Senate used to be called the 'Millionare's Club' and was understood to represent the financial elites (which is why one of the progress reforms was to make it popularly elected by the people).

After FDR, including the Estate Tax, the concentration of wealth reduced; and the economy improved, with more access and opportunity for more people.

The concentration remained lower until recent years under the Bush borrowed tax cuts,when it hit a high not seen since just before the Great Depression.

The Estate Tax is probably the best tax we have, IMO, and helps even if it's not enough.

You are quite confused about the risk of tyranny in the US - it's the private sector, the government is only involved insofar as an overly powerful private sector corrupts it.

The problem is the 'Millionares Club' instead of Bernie Sanders - not the fact there's a Senate, or that the Senate is making itself billionares even in corrupt times.

And you think taking 30 billion out of an economy of 14 trillion is why we dont have as big of concentrations of wealth? lmao.

Oh I am not confused at all on how we will arrive at tyranny in this country. It wont be at the hands of private industry. That is an impossiblity as they lack the brute force to enforce that tyranny. No, it will be at the end of the govt gun cheered on by big govt douchenozzles like you.

 

[werepossum]

Lets see.... Self described retard....errr... socialist Sanders proposes tax increases. Shocking I tell you! That's like a broken record. It's the usual class warfare argument. It's all the fault of the rich! Blame them, take their wealth to pay for everything else! Just enact a few more taxes and we can turn America into a new socialist utopia! Viva La Revolucion!

Bottom line: the growing gap between the uber wealthy and the rest is worrying. At the same time, adding wonderful new taxes is not the answer. Instead of a big tool belt with a variety of tools to do the job, idiots like Sanders are like repairmen with just a hammer (tax increases) in their tool belt to address every problem.

The more logical answer is to do a comprehensive review of the entire tax code and simplify it, eliminating many of the loopholes used by the ultra rich to escape taxation. Income is taxed as it is made. There is no logical reason to tax it again when the taxpayer dies. Further, the vast majority (close to 70% last time I checked) of billionaires in the US are "self made", not people who inherited their wealth. It makes no logical sense to penalize the productive people by taking yet another chunk of their earnings when they want to leave something for their family.

We've already seen in the past how unfair estate taxes tend to be; people end up losing heirlooms, family farms, business that have been built from the ground up etc. The ultra rich get around them anyway by transferring most of the wealth into trusts and other mechanisms before they die.

In other words, Sanders = idiot. As usual.

Bingo. Like any good socialist Sanders wants a serf society, just with government as the lord. Rather than addressing our loss of wealth-producing jobs he is merely continuing class warfare, wealth envy, and conditional morality (i.e. is is immoral for government to take things from me - in fact, government must give things to me - but it is perfectly okay for government to take things from people who aren't me.)

 

[PokerGuy]

Why don't you name for me the citizen who should give up their own hard earned money so your 'legacy' of over $3.5 million can keep every cent of its money?

He EARNED that money. I know, for liberals that word is hard to comprehend, they only understand government giving you something. He earned that money, so he should get to decide where that money goes instead of it being handed over for wealth redistribution to the lazy.

How about you pay more taxes personally to replace the Estate Tax? You say 'your children', as if you have over $3.5 million to give them.

How about the government reduce waste to the tune of (a relatively paltry) $30B? Just because I don't have $3.5 million to give to future kids doesn't mean class warfare is justified.

 

[daishi5]

At last, someone is honest about why he wants to change the tax laws. When we talk about income tax, they always claim its "because the rich use more services." That argument doesn't make any sense when it comes to the estate tax. But, this is so much more honest. The entire reason he wants this tax is because he wants to shape society.

This tax is nothing but an attempt to engineer a society into one he views as better. But, the questions we must all answer are, why is his vision of society better than the person he takes the money from, and is that vision good enough to justify taking someones property?