Sempron Manila Lowest Power Consumption for Home Server?

[timswim78]

I'm running Windows Home Server. Since I want to leave this machine on most of the time, I am looking for a somewhat modern setup with the least power consumption. Because this will basically be a file/print/backup server, it does not need a ton of horsepower. Here are my current thoughts for a system. I'd appreciate your input.

- CPU: Sempron 3400+ Manila. This CPU has a very small TDP (35W) and only one core sucking power. It is also cheap at less than $30.
- Cooling: Should I just use the stock AMD HSF?
- MOBO: AM2 with integrated video. I've read that integrated graphics use less power than PCI-E cards. Also, integrated graphics usually don't use fans. So, there will be less noise and power consumption. I considered a 939 board, but DDR RAM is so darn expensive these days.
- RAM: 2GB DDR2 RAM (2 x 1GB) DDR2 RAM is so cheap that I may as well get a decent amount.
- Optical Drives: None (Just use an external drive to install WHS).
- Hard drives: 2 x ATA 400GB, set to idle after 15 minutes
- PSU: I have a few of this model around. LINK It is cheap, relatively quiet, and has been rock solid in three other systems.
- Other: Undercloking: can it be done with this CPU by lowering the multiplier?

 

[f4phantom2500]

have you considered one of the new celerons that are based on the conroe architecture and undervolt it? they're not very expensive either, and i'll bet they're better than that sempron.

 

[timswim78]

Originally posted by: f4phantom2500
have you considered one of the new celerons that are based on the conroe architecture and undervolt it? they're not very expensive either, and i'll bet they're better than that sempron.

It's something to consider, but I am leaning towards AMD because:
- I am an AMD Fanboi
- I'd rather underclock the multiplier rather than undervolt
- The Sempron is $24.99 shipped, compared to $55 for the Celeron

On other hand, as much as it pains me to say, the Celeron does look superior to the Sempron. It has the same TDP and a much higher clock.

Choices, choices.

 

[Smartazz]

Originally posted by: timswim78
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: f4phantom2500
have you considered one of the new celerons that are based on the conroe architecture and undervolt it? they're not very expensive either, and i'll bet they're better than that sempron.</end quote></div>

It's something to consider, but I am leaning towards AMD because:
- I am an AMD Fanboi
- I'd rather underclock the multiplier rather than undervolt
- The Sempron is $24.99 shipped, compared to $55 for the Celeron

On other hand, as much as it pains me to say, the Celeron does look superior to the Sempron. It has the same TDP and a much higher clock.

Choices, choices.

$55 is cheap, but $25 is even cheaper. For a home server, I would go with the cheaper processor since you don't need much horsepower.

 

[kotrtim]

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: timswim78
- I'd rather underclock the multiplier rather than undervolt
</end quote></div>


Reducing clock will reduce power, reduce voltage will also reduce power, first underclock then undervolt until you get it table.

My experience, i have a turion x2 1.6 GHZ (31 W TDP), when running at full clock speed, it will use 1.075V, i undervolted it to 0.925V, and with the same speed, the power is reduced by 4-5W. Checked with mobile meter, i can't be sure what is the exact power the processor dissipates, but the laptop overall power usage is reduced by 4-5W.

 

[Zap]

Originally posted by: timswim78
CPU has a very small TDP (35W)

35W? What a thirsty CPU! This one only sips 9W. Of course it's not for everyone and it certainly isn't the cheapest, but if you want to save on your electric bill and be "green" then VIA it is.

 

[Smartazz]

Originally posted by: Zap

Originally posted by: timswim78
CPU has a very small TDP (35W)

35W? What a thirsty CPU! This one only sips 9W. Of course it's not for everyone and it certainly isn't the cheapest, but if you want to save on your electric bill and be "green" then VIA it is.

It comes with integrated graphics too. I think that AMD is releasing a 9w sempron soon aren't they?

 

[Barnaby W. Füi]

A VIA Mini-ITX would be a great choice. 1Ghz or so is more than sufficient for a file server, so skimp as much as you can, either on price (AMD) or power consumption (VIA). Then again, skimping on power consumption may also pay off well monetarily in the long run...

 

[f4phantom2500]

Originally posted by: BingBongWongFooey
A VIA Mini-ITX would be a great choice. 1Ghz or so is more than sufficient for a file server, so skimp as much as you can, either on price (AMD) or power consumption (VIA). Then again, skimping on power consumption may also pay off well monetarily in the long run...

yeah the celeron is something of a compromise; since it uses a more efficient architecture, he could underclock and undervolt it so much and it would still be fast enough for his purposes but wouldn't consume hardly any energy. plus it's definitely cheaper than that via.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16819116040

that one's "only" $50. i think it's a good balance between initial cost and long-term cost due to power consumption (plus just having the benefits of low power consumption. i wouldn't be surprised if you could manage to run this thing without any kind of active cooling, assuming you undervolted/underclocked it enough and had a big enough heatsink. but regardless, it will definitely be cool running.

 

[Zap]

Originally posted by: f4phantom2500
yeah the celeron is something of a compromise; since it uses a more efficient architecture, he could underclock and undervolt it so much and it would still be fast enough for his purposes but wouldn't consume hardly any energy. plus it's definitely cheaper than that via.

Problem is that to underclock you'd have to get a board that lets you manually set FSB lower than 800MHz, say, 533MHz for 1.06GHz total speed. If it doesn't let you, then you'd have to do a BSEL mod and hope it works (does with some boards, doesn't with others).

Additionally, underclocking only saves a little bit. The real savings comes from severely undervolting along with underclocking. For that you'd need to either do pin mods or you need to buy a good enthusiast board that allows you to undervolt in BIOS as cheaper boards don't let you do that (unless in software).

Finally, the VIA solution is a holistic one involving the motherboard's chipset as well as the CPU. Enthusiast level chipsets for Intel CPUs can end up drawing more power than the CPU itself once you start undervolting.

Besides that, it's actually a pretty darn good idea and can result in a relatively low power rig that is actually a decent performer.

 

[f4phantom2500]

Originally posted by: Zap

Originally posted by: f4phantom2500
yeah the celeron is something of a compromise; since it uses a more efficient architecture, he could underclock and undervolt it so much and it would still be fast enough for his purposes but wouldn't consume hardly any energy. plus it's definitely cheaper than that via.

Problem is that to underclock you'd have to get a board that lets you manually set FSB lower than 800MHz, say, 533MHz for 1.06GHz total speed. If it doesn't let you, then you'd have to do a BSEL mod and hope it works (does with some boards, doesn't with others).

Additionally, underclocking only saves a little bit. The real savings comes from severely undervolting along with underclocking. For that you'd need to either do pin mods or you need to buy a good enthusiast board that allows you to undervolt in BIOS as cheaper boards don't let you do that (unless in software).

Finally, the VIA solution is a holistic one involving the motherboard's chipset as well as the CPU. Enthusiast level chipsets for Intel CPUs can end up drawing more power than the CPU itself once you start undervolting.

Besides that, it's actually a pretty darn good idea and can result in a relatively low power rig that is actually a decent performer.

well i haven't used an intel chip since the northwood days, but i always assumed that any decent board would let you undervolt...then again my standards are probably kind of high since i always look for boards that oc well but are cheap (which is why i'm an amd man now...$ lol). as for underclocking though, is the multi completely locked so you can't even lower it? i know every amd cpu i've owned has let me do it.

 

[nyker96]

I think you made a good choice with the CPU, cheap and power efficient. I'm not sure if board allow undervolt, I have a 754 VNF3 board that lcoks CPU volt to 1.4v in the BIOS. But this is rare most boards allow undervolt I would say. AS for cooling, I think stock will do, if you manage to undervolt, the stock cooling is plenty especially you hardly will run this past any serious load. Also why do you need 2GB of RAM for a file server? Don't seem to do much at all. I use my 754 as file server it has 512mb and that's already plenty for it to chew on. Just do some backup to this system, and even during backup it doesn't eat up much CPUs at all. I think you can just save yourself some cash there by getting less RAM for this machine.

Just saw newegg combo for Manila 3000+ retail + ECS mATX board for 70 bucks total. What a deal.

 

[f4phantom2500]

Originally posted by: nyker96
Just saw newegg combo for Manila 3000+ retail + ECS mATX board for 70 bucks total. What a deal.

that combo's a pretty good deal. personally i would go with that. i personally wouldn't care about the differences between the sempron and celeron, i just thought you might, which is why i even suggested it, so you'd have another option to consider.

 

[robmurphy]

I have several AMD machines, and the one that uses the most power is the one with the 3400 s939 semperon. Semperons do not have the power now features of the athlons. The other AMD machines I have use similar motherboards, have s939 x2 4600 CPUs, and use much less power at idle. If you are going with AMD get a processor that supports power now.

Rob.

 

[BlueWeasel]

How exactly do you determine how much power your system actually uses?

 

[robmurphy]

I bought a Watt meter. It reeds current, VA, Voltage, and Watts. I was most supprised to find that the machine with the dual core CPU used the least power as it has a graphics card and the others machines have onboard graphics.

The machines were:

AMD X2 4600, 1 GB mem (2 x 512 MB), X300 SE PCIE, single HD
AMD Semperon 3400+, 512MB mem (1 x 512 MB), single HD
Intel Celeron 1200 Tualatin, 256 MB (1 x 256 MB), single HD.

The semperon and celeron machines used about twice the power of the X2 4600 machine at idle. The power scheme on the X2 4600 was set to portable/laptop. The AMD software for the dual core processors, and the power now was downloaded and installed.

 

[robmurphy]

I am afraid I used the wrong name for the power saving software. On the desktop its called "Cool 'n' Quiet". From AMD's website this may be available for the S754 semprons. I have tried the AMD downloads on the S939 Sempron I have and they install but they do not change the frequency of the processor. The AMD dashboard software installs but will not run, so I cannot comment on the voltage used.

On the X2 4600 the voltage and the frequency are varied, and it greatly reduces the power consumtion at idle, under normal load the CPU only uses full power for a fraction of each second, so power under these conditions is greatly reduced. I'm using the HSF that was on the Athlon 3200 before. The 3200 was 90W TDP, and the X2 4600 110w TDP, so I just used the HSF that was there. Idle and normal load temp is arround 30 - 35 C. The fans seed up if you start running P95 on both cores but the CPU temp goes to about 48 - 50 C.

Rob.

 

[BlueWeasel]

CnQ ran fine on my 754 Sempron 3100+. It was a 64-bit Sempron and I don't think CnQ is supported on the earlier 32-bit Semprons.

I use RMclock on both my Desktop and Server with the Performance on Demand profile for normal usage. My Opteron gets underclocked to 1.25Ghz with 0.95v and the 754 3200+ in the Server underclocks to 1.15Ghz with 1.1v. Both systems overclock to 2.8Ghz and 2.55Ghz, respectively, but RMClock is great that it can raise and lower the multiplier and voltage as needed.

 

[cw42]

I'm looking to build a similar low powered/efficient/cheap server also. What kind of PSU do you plan on using?

 

[robmurphy]

I do not think the CnQ relates to the age of the Sempron the S939 3400 Sempron came out quite late, and it CnQ does not work on that.

Have a look at the following link:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S...Manila_.2890_nm_SOI.29

The table at the bottom does not list all the Semprons, as can be seen by tha fact that no S939 ones are shown.

There appear to be 2 3400+ AM2 Semprons, one as quoted is 35 TDP and the other as 65 TDP, you need to ensure that you get the energy efficent one, see:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L...ctor.2C_F2.2C_90_nm.29

It would appear that both the 3400+ AM2 semprons support CnQ.

Rob.