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Sempron 754 vs Athlon XP Mobile Combo

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Originally posted by: irenealan
sorry guys, I thought by giving the CPU and Motherboard spec, they would tell my budget is somewhere around $150. Anyway sorry for that!

So given my budget now, which combo should be better?
Click to expand...

For $152:

Sempron 2800+ = $87 delivered
http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?ProductCode=80143-1

refurb DFI LanParty = 250Gb $65 delivered
http://www2.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16813136147R

You really want the 2800+ because it has twice the cache and has been reported as a better overclocker than the 2600+. You also really want an EPoX or DFI board that'll let you adjust the HT multiplier if you're going to overclock. I've never had a problem with NewEgg refurbs. My brother actually RMA'd a refurb at NewEgg without any hassle (nothing was even wrong with it, just a buggy IDE setup with the model as I recall).

If you want to see the type of results you get overclocking a Sempron 2800+ on the DFI board:
http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview...atid=28&threadid=1528904&enterthread=y

And of course the X-bit articles:
http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/cpu/display/sempron-2600.html
http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/cpu/display/sempron-3100e.html

With the DFI board you can get a Sempron 2800 up to right around 300 FSB with stock voltage and the stock heatsink. It's not a hot CPU.

 
So now it's Tostada's setup (sempron 2800+ and refurb DFI Lanparty nF3 250Gb) vs. $50 more for Refurb a64 3000+ (is it 130nm New Castle or 90nm Winchester core?) with a new(??) MSI K8N Neo 2 Platinum board?

For $50 you will get a better overclocking ceiling (100-200mhz for 90nm and 50-100mhz for 130nm) and a more upgradable (and brand new?) motherboard.

At the same time you will lose the ability to pump high voltages into UTT memory (like the $105 for 2x512 Twinmos memory) and the cool DFI packaging.

Since it doesn't seem like you will do any hardcore gaming or video editing that would benefit from the extra power, ect then I would go for Tostada's setup over the s939 setup you posted above. On the other hand, if you can get your hands on the new Venice core for the s939, then it's another 200-300mhz of overclocking headroom.

My brother has the MSI K8N Neo2 platinum btw and he got his Winchester 90nm Athlon 64 3000+ to 283x9=2547mhz.
I have the Sempron 2600 and the DFI Lanparty UT nF3 250 Gb and the sempy is at 300x8=2400mhz. Both Prime Stable.
 
Thanks Tostada for posting the possible setup. Just wonder for the refurb CPU and Motherboard of Newegg, do they come with retail packaging most of the time. If the CPU doesn't come with any heatsink then I may have to account for the extra HS cost.

Thanks also sangyup81. Currently I guess I can get the refurb DFI board and refurb Sempron 3000+ skt 754 for $155 or a refurb MSI K8N Neo2 board with a refurb A64 3000+ skt 939 for $50 more. I guess it may worth the $50 for a better processor and a better upgrade path.

However, the Sempron 3000+ skt 754 may most likely get OC to 2.6 or 2.7ghz while the A64 3000+ skt 939 may get around 2.4 or 2.5ghz due to the OC limit of the MSI board. So the Sempron setup may actually end up with comparable performance as the A64 skt 939 setup right? What do you guys think? Sangyup81 based on your experience with the two setup, have you noticed any difference between the two? I always thought the A64 skt 939 will perform much better even than a Sempron skt 754 even if it's 200mhz less in clock speed since it has a better core and support dual channel ram. But if both should perform the same then it seems I am just spending the extra money for the better upgrade path and it may not be worthy.

Can wait to see what you guys think. Thanks!
 
irenealan, the setups above were CPU limited, not motherboard limited and the winchester clearly overclocked better than the sempron. Also, the sempron 3000+ is the 128k version. For some odd reason, people have gotten better o/c results with the 256k cache versions which are the 2800+ and the 3100+.
 
Originally posted by: irenealan
Currently I guess I can get the refurb DFI board and refurb Sempron 3000+ skt 754 for $155 or a refurb MSI K8N Neo2 board with a refurb A64 3000+ skt 939 for $50 more. I guess it may worth the $50 for a better processor and a better upgrade path.
Click to expand...

I don't know if the refurb CPU will have the heatsink or not. I never got a refurb CPU, and it's really not even possible; AMD isn't going to refurbish a CPU, they're going to throw it away and make a new one. It has to just mean it's an open box item, and you should be very skeptical of an open box CPU because that often means someone tried to overclock it and was disappointed so they got rid of it.

Anyway, remember what 90nm Semprons actually are:

2600+ = Palermo 1.6GHz 128K cache
2800+ = Palermo 1.6GHz 256K cache
3000+ = Palermo 1.8GHz 128K cache
3100+ = Palermo 1.8GHz 256K cache

The 256K ones not only have double the cache but are also considered better overclockers. I'd much rather have a 2800+ than a 3000+, and I certainly don't think a refurb 3000+ is a good idea when you could get a 2800+ for less.

If that refurb Socket 939 is a 130nm then it looks like a bad deal. If it's a 90nm it looks like a pretty good alternative. I'd probably make that your deciding factor (well, that and how much you trust the people you're getting this refurb Socket 939 chip from).

It just depends how much you want to spend. If you want to keep it it down to $150 I'd stick with the Sempron and not push it past 300 FSB with the stock heatsink. If you want to spend more, definitely go for the 90nm Socket 939 A64 and get a good heatsink and see what it can do.

 
The refurb components I referred to are all for Newegg. Though it's still hard to tell if they are good or not. But some people suggested in other threads that building system with refurb parts can be good and save lots of money. Thus I am looking into such direction.

Just wonder if I were to get an new OEM skt 939 90ns, what type of HS should I get in order to allow a good staple OC? Thanks!
 
ok, i just did oc semp2600 on SN85g4 .. and benchmark is horrible

even at stock settings, sandra shows mem score is on par with amd760 ! 😱

 
Irene, I haven't bought a refurbished item from Newegg but expect parts may be missing. For a CPU it's not a big deal but for a motherboard that could be cables, connectors, I/O plate, CD and manual. The I/O plate and proprietary cables could be a problem.

Just thought I'd better mention that - I thought you were just talking about the CPU earlier and getting a new motherboard.

Good luck on your new build!
 
Most Newegg Refurbs are OEM White-Box components. WHich means they definatly do NOT come with all the cables, plates, and associated retail Box parts. Usually not a big deal for folks that have lots of parts lying around (like me) but could be an issue for some.

 
Originally posted by: larciel
ok, i just did oc semp2600 on SN85g4 .. and benchmark is horrible

even at stock settings, sandra shows mem score is on par with amd760 ! 😱
Click to expand...

I hope you don't base your system building decisions on useless benchmarks like Sandra memory scores. There are benchmarks for most typical applications out there and they will show you that the memory scores don't make a difference more than a few percentage points.
 
Originally posted by: irenealan
The refurb components I referred to are all for Newegg. Though it's still hard to tell if they are good or not. But some people suggested in other threads that building system with refurb parts can be good and save lots of money. Thus I am looking into such direction.

Just wonder if I were to get an new OEM skt 939 90ns, what type of HS should I get in order to allow a good staple OC? Thanks!
Click to expand...

You seem to be an expert at building computers so I think you'll be alright but be prepared to do some work in case some parts are not included. In this case, you get what you pay for.
 
yup I tried be brave this time to see if I can really build a whole stable system based on all refurb parts of Newegg but then I have second thoughts now since it's I may end up spending more to get spare parts if I don't get lucky. A HS alone is around $20 plus I don't even know which one is good and will fit the board. I see some people have issues with fitting the HS on specific board. I guess the most I will get is a refurb motherboard since I have most necessary cables and it's actually much cheaper then the regular price. I don't really install face plates, I just think of a better air vent but it will give out more noise also.

So now I am just down to whether I want to spend $50+ for a skt 939 90ns system with a better upgrade path and maybe few % performance advantage. But thanks for all the help!
 
The ONLY heatsink you might have trouble with on some boards is the Thermalright XP-120. Everything else fits within AMD's guidelines (And actually, the 120 does as well... But some motherboard manufactureres dont quite follow the guideline to the "T")

Thats said, I would stay away from :Refurb" Procesors as they are usually returns from someone that didnt get the overclock they expected........ The extra $$ to get a new one is usually worth it... Plus if you go Retail, your get the 3 year AMD warranty.... Usually worth the price diference from OEM anyway.
 
actually I always had a question in mind, is Sempron skt 754 90ns the same as skt 939 90ns except the Winnie has a more cache, 64-bit and dual channel support. If that's the case then Winnie may only benefits from gaming or maybe encoding right? Other than that the Sempron skt 754 may perform the same or even exceed Winnie in some general applications as I saw in some benches maded in Anandtech and Xbit!
 
Irene, you've got the same problem we all have - how to compromise between what we need, what we want and what is overkill! Your old Duron system was doing what you needed but truthfully, who wants that today.

When building a system today I'd consider what I need now but have an eye to what I want and may need in two years. For that reason I think it's wise to put more money in your system, go A64 in a 939 board and avoid refurbished components. In a year you won't miss the extra $150 or so and will be happier with your system.

I like to get the best motherboard I can afford and go low ball on the CPU. Then buy the killer CPU of today when it's dropped to 1/5 the price in a year or two. That worked well for Socket A but is harder with 939 because AGP is being replaced by PCI-e. (A top end board would mean getting a cheap PCI-e video card or even a junker PCI card that could be replaced when necessary.) If you have a good AGP card then you may want to cut back on the motherboard. Socket 754 and a Sempron would certainly work well. For me, I just couldn't do that but for you it could be a great decision.

It would be nice if everyone who's posted here could distill their thoughts and let Irene make her decision. None of us want to send you down the wrong path but I fear this thing has gotten so convoluted than none of us knows what to do!
 
s754 is good.

1. cheap-er than 939
2. if you pick up nice oc set.. it'll last you more than 1 year for sure

many say pick up s939 for upgrading path .. but if you look at past history, upgrading path does not really matter .

socket A which has been around for couple years now.. if one picked up socket A in 2000 for upgrading path, he still wouldn't be able to use latest socket A (because of mobo spec difference) so the latest cpu i'd be able to use w/ let's says KT133A chipset will be palomino and not barton or thoroughbred.. etc

*moral of story?

pick up whatever fits your bill best.. don't over do it, but don't go too cheapy on parts (esp. ram) .. you'll have a good time 😉
 
yup thanks for Quentin and larciel. I don't want to make this thread too long as I have been jumping back and forward. I guess it makes sense to get whatever best fit my budget and my need now. I guess the decision between Athlon XP and Sempron is easy since they cost about the same but the Sempron clearly outperforms the other as many suggested. It's a little tough between the Winnie and the Sempron since the Winnie is like double the price of a Sempron (sorry I am comparing the Sempron 2800+ vs the Winnie 3000+) and I can save up such money now to upgrade to a better set in two years. Though I will miss the speed and functions of a Winnie for the come two years but I don't know how much more will a Winnie give me based on my usage. Seems like I am just reiterating myself and just trying to further convince myself on the Sempron. Maybe I should not think too much =P, sorry guys I think I know what I should do! Thanks for all the help!
 
Originally posted by: irenealan
actually I always had a question in mind, is Sempron skt 754 90ns the same as skt 939 90ns except the Winnie has a more cache, 64-bit and dual channel support. If that's the case then Winnie may only benefits from gaming or maybe encoding right? Other than that the Sempron skt 754 may perform the same or even exceed Winnie in some general applications as I saw in some benches maded in Anandtech and Xbit!
Click to expand...

Yup, that's exactly right. The 90nm Sempron is based on the Winnie.

Here's another thing to consider with the proposed setups. The s754 is a DFI board and the s939 is an MSI board. I am willing to put money that most people here would prefer the DFI brand over the MSI brand for overclocking.

Given that you want to stick to AGP, there is no DFI option for you for s939.

Originally posted by: irenealan
yup thanks for Quentin and larciel. I don't want to make this thread too long as I have been jumping back and forward. I guess it makes sense to get whatever best fit my budget and my need now. I guess the decision between Athlon XP and Sempron is easy since they cost about the same but the Sempron clearly outperforms the other as many suggested. It's a little tough between the Winnie and the Sempron since the Winnie is like double the price of a Sempron (sorry I am comparing the Sempron 2800+ vs the Winnie 3000+) and I can save up such money now to upgrade to a better set in two years. Though I will miss the speed and functions of a Winnie for the come two years but I don't know how much more will a Winnie give me based on my usage. Seems like I am just reiterating myself and just trying to further convince myself on the Sempron. Maybe I should not think too much =P, sorry guys I think I know what I should do! Thanks for all the help!
Click to expand...

Yup, you will want to upgrade in two years because by then, Dual Cores and the socket M2 will be mature.
 
Thanks Sangyup81. Actually it doesn't matter if AGP or PCIE, since my AGP is too old and I have to upgrade anyway. PCIE card is cheaper for the high end ones but I may only need a low-end one since I don't plan to play game on this system.

Newegg has the refurb DFI skt 754 board but I don't know if it will work fine for OC since it's a returned product. For the same price, I can get a new Epox NV3 board and I everyone here seems to agree that the Epox would work about the same as the DFI so maybe getting a new Epox is better than a refurb DFI? What do you think?

After all the discussion I think it's true that after two years both the skt 754 and 939 board may need to be upgraded since Dual Cores and socket M2 are based on different socket. I guess no matter I purchase the Sempron or Winnie, I still have to upgrade the whole set as those two sockets may become obsolete like Socket A now, right? Thanks for the help!
 
The DFI does overclock better than the EPOX but it's not by enough to make a huge difference so that's why people say it's about the same. What the DFI has over the EPOX is the ability to have high memory voltages when using a modded bios. The high memory voltage is necessary to take advantage of the the Twinmos or OCZ RAM that uses Winbound UTT. It's possible to get a gig of Twinmos for $105 so it's well worth it if you're gonna go with the DFI.

And about the Dual Cores, they will have s939 versions. The problem with those is the lack of memory bandwidth. It doesn't affect current single core a64s but there is much speculation that Dual Cores will benefit from the bandwith of DDR2 (or maybe DDR3?) that will come with the socket M2.

Wow, I'm just realizing how much information is in this thread. One could literally make a guide from all this.
 
yes Sangyup81 you are right. Thanks for everyone's input for this thread.

So the ability for high memory voltages and the use of Twinmos or OCZ ram will allow higher memory FSB (speed)? For example, if one OC the CPU to 300mhz FSB, they may run a memory divider of maybe 6:5 instead of 3:2 for a Twinmos or OCZ PC3200 ram?

Based on the Dual Cores info, it seems that by the time when it's out, the current available skt 939 board may not be able to support all new features of the Dual Cores. So by the time it comes out, most people may need to upgrade both the CPU and Board anyway!

Thanks for all the info!
 
Irene, I was in the market for basically the exact same setup. I wanted to keep my motherboard/CPU/HSF/Memory/Video below $250. I eneded up going with the following:

- Retail Sempron 2800 (754) -- $87
- Refurbished Asus K8N -- $47
- I/O Shield -- $8
- 1 GB (2 x 512 MB) Corsair Value PC3200 -- $81
- Sapphire Radeon 9250 -- $38
Total (minus tax) = 261

Almost hit my mark. The difference was the CPU (Sempron 2800 over 2600) which I believe will be worth it.

I split the parts between Newegg (for the refurbished mobo) and the rest at Chiefvalue (slightly better prices). I've purchased over 10 refurbished motherboards from Newegg over the years. It is hit or miss with the accessories. I haven't gotten any with Asus boards for a long while, so I expected a white box OEM. That is exactly what I got. All I needed to supplement was an I/O shield. I got that from a trusted source at www.asusparts.com for $7.95.

I have purchased three socket 754 CPUs refurbished from Newegg. All were listed as the "Box". All three of these came with the original AMD HSF. My experience seems to indicate that if you buy the "box" you'll get the fan. If you buy a refurb OEM, you'll get the plain ole' CPU with nothing else.

I decided there were no worthy on-board graphics solutions for socket 754 (sorry, Via's K8M800 or the SiS chipset didn't cut it in my books). I ended up getting a cheap Sapphire Radeon 9250 to hold me over until I could upgrade it. This set me back $38 at Chiefvalue.

All in all, I think I'm going to be very happy. The mobo arrived today. The rest should be here tomorrow. I plan to OC the Sempron 2800 and see how high I can get it stable. Oh, BTW, I chose the Sempron 2800 over the 2600 simply for the cache. I can make the CPU run faster by OCing it, but there isn't anything I can do to increase the cache. At least that was my rationale. I'll let you know if that plan paid off.

My long term plan, is to upgrade this system eventually to a socket 939 with a Venice core 3000. For now, however, this should tide me over a couple months until those processors settle into the proper price point and the nVidia nForce4 boards come down in price.

Happy computer building!

-MINOT-
 
Hi Minot, it's nice to see you here and I am excited to see we are actually building the "Exact" same machine!

I am about to get the retail Semron 2800+ Skt 754 though for the same price I can get a refurb Sempron 3000+ skt 754. There are enough people convinced me here that it's better to go with the extra cache, so I may stick with 2800+ (though I really like the high multiplier of the 3000+).

I plan to also buy the exact ram since it's probably the best quality ram with the lowest price.

I also chose Sapphire Radeon 9250 since it's the best card for it's price (the only 128-bit card around such price) but I am tempted to fork another $20 and get the MSI 9550 (the cheapest card with Direct 9, though I don't really play game, don't know if Direct 9 will be useful in other aspects)!

Now for the motherboard, I really want to stick with the Epox board since it comes retail and many reported good results with the board. I think it may worth it if I don't need the extra features of the DFI board. Sangyup81 can you confirm if the high memory voltage offered by the DFI board is only good for people who wants to run the specific ram like Twinmos or OCZ in faster speed and nothing else? If so then I may get the Epox new board instead of the refurb DFI board!

I can't wait to see your result and do keep me posted. I don't plan to upgrade with this setup for another 2 or more years so unlike you, if I were to build this Sempron system then I will for sure skin the Winnie or Venice unless my machine broke down! (Touch Wood!) Otherwise I will see myself upgrade to the dual core or whatever budgeted skt, like the Sempron now, two years later!

Thanks Minot for your input!
 
Irene and Minot, I hope both systems work well! Let us know how it goes.

Kinda feel like we've helped deliver twins here!
 
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