Selling a ripped-to-hard-drive DVD library with original DVDs

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TechnoPro

Golden Member
Jul 10, 2003
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I rip every DVD I buy onto my HTPC. I then strip out all extra content, leaving only the movie and the best audio. The end result is a great library of video-on-demand.

Recently, I thought about the legality of selling the HDD that contains the movies. Not that I ever would part with my collection, but I started thinking about future channels for digital media that could interface with an HTPC. Like the entire Star Trek series sold on an external HDD. However impractical this example, it made me think about the present laws governing this.

Assuming I sold the HDD with all original DVDs, would the sale be legal?

I should be able to, but I think the law would disagree.

First off, the ripping process violates the DMCA as I am breaking the CSS encryption in the process. So I know that what I do is not legal. Whether this affects the sale, I don't know, as I used illegal means to obtain the item in question...

Next, I cannot justify the sale as being governed by Fair Use provisions, as my ripping to HDD is no longer for personal use, but has become for profit and commerce by virtue of me initiating the sale.

I am perhaps breaking copyright laws by editing a copywritten work and then profiting from it.

Any thoughts on the subject?

EDIT:

Here's a more real-life scenario I thought of...

Someone wants an HTPC built and set up for them. But, they also want you to buy certain titles and preload them onto the HTPC. So again, you are selling the digital content along with source materials... No different from selling ones personal collection, but this latter scenario seems much "cleaner", doesn't it?
 
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BigJ

Lifer
Nov 18, 2001
21,330
1
81
If you're really that concerned, I'd contact a lawyer who specifically deals with the DMCA and copyrights.
 
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TechnoPro

Golden Member
Jul 10, 2003
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Originally posted by: BigJ
If you're really that concerned, I'd contact a lawyer who specifically deals with the DMCA and copyrights.
Click to expand...

I'm concerned enough to post a question on the internet and that's the extent of it. My library is mine to keep, but even if I did sell it, I wouldn't care about the legalities from a compliance standpoint.
 
waggy

waggy

No Lifer
Dec 14, 2000
68,143
10
81
I really do not think that is legal. but it would seem to me that if you send the orginal DVD's it would be fine. but with the DMCA and crap i doubt it.
 
preslove

preslove

Lifer
Sep 10, 2003
16,754
64
91
It would probably be illegal in the up and up world. If you just did it on FS forums it would probably be all right, not keeping any of the data in an archive. I don't see how it would be profitable, though.
 
Colt45

Colt45

Lifer
Apr 18, 2001
19,720
1
0
Probably not legal, but I wouldn't feel guilty about it. kind of like selling a CD with a back-up CD-r included.
 
Kaervak

Kaervak

Diamond Member
Jul 18, 2001
8,460
2
81
I'd say it would be illegal because of the current status the DMCA has with personal backup copies of DVD's. Hopefully if the right people ever pull their collective head out of their ass, things will change.
 
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TechnoPro

Golden Member
Jul 10, 2003
1,727
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76
Here's a more real-life scenario I thought of...

Someone wants an HTPC built and set up for them. But, they also want you to buy certain titles and preload them onto the HTPC. So again, you are selling the digital content along with source materials... No different from selling ones personal collection, but this latter scenario seems much "cleaner", doesn't it?
 
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theNEOone

Diamond Member
Apr 22, 2001
5,745
4
81
i don't think the fair use act prohibts you from making a backup for yourself. you can sell the HDD w/ the movies, as long as you include all the DVDs themself in the sale. it's as if you're selling the actual DVDs and hard drive. the buyer can always say that s/he made the backups him/herself.


=|
 
Koing

Koing

Elite Member <br> Super Moderator<br> Health and F
Oct 11, 2000
16,843
2
0
Originally posted by: theNEOone
i don't think the fair use act prohibts you from making a backup for yourself. you can sell the HDD w/ the movies, as long as you include all the DVDs themself in the sale. it's as if you're selling the actual DVDs and hard drive. the buyer can always say that s/he made the backups him/herself.


=|
Click to expand...

Ditto.

YOu can backup for yourself BUT not profit from it so sell your HD with the copies on it. You are then profitting from it. BUT if you sold the HD WITH the DVD's (original ones) that is fine.

Koing
 
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EyeMWing

Banned
Jun 13, 2003
15,670
1
0
Without the DMCA, it's perfectly legal. With the DMCA, it's very not legal.

Edit: Actually, on second thought, it's perfectly legal even with the DMCA. There is no law broken when you pass on the duplicates with the original, the law is only broken when you MAKE the duplicate. The actual existance of the duplicate is not illegal, only it's creation and distribution without the original.
 
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TechnoPro

Golden Member
Jul 10, 2003
1,727
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76
Originally posted by: EyeMWing
Without the DMCA, it's perfectly legal. With the DMCA, it's very not legal.

Edit: Actually, on second thought, it's perfectly legal even with the DMCA. There is no law broken when you pass on the duplicates with the original, the law is only broken when you MAKE the duplicate. The actual existance of the duplicate is not illegal, only it's creation and distribution without the original.
Click to expand...

Specifically, do you mean how the ripping breaks the CSS or is there another provision in the DMCA you are refering to?
 
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EyeMWing

Banned
Jun 13, 2003
15,670
1
0
Originally posted by: TechnoPro
Originally posted by: EyeMWing
Without the DMCA, it's perfectly legal. With the DMCA, it's very not legal.

Edit: Actually, on second thought, it's perfectly legal even with the DMCA. There is no law broken when you pass on the duplicates with the original, the law is only broken when you MAKE the duplicate. The actual existance of the duplicate is not illegal, only it's creation and distribution without the original.
Click to expand...

Specifically, do you mean how the ripping breaks the CSS or is there another provision in the DMCA you are refering to?
Click to expand...

Yes. And copying through analog methods is also illegal under the DMCA due to Macrovision evasion (Which means that all professional analog video equipment, and a good deal of semi-pro and consumer equipment is illegal under the DMCA, thereby I don't acknolwedge the DMCA's existance in my actions)

In short, it's all good untilsomeone asks questions.
 
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TechnoPro

Golden Member
Jul 10, 2003
1,727
0
76
Originally posted by: theNEOone
i don't think the fair use act prohibts you from making a backup for yourself. you can sell the HDD w/ the movies, as long as you include all the DVDs themself in the sale. it's as if you're selling the actual DVDs and hard drive. the buyer can always say that s/he made the backups him/herself.


=|
Click to expand...

If the buyer would have to justify the purchase to the authorities by lying, then indeed a law has been broken.
 
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TechnoPro

Golden Member
Jul 10, 2003
1,727
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76
Another semi-related question:

A house has 2 HTPCs connected to a separate file server that holds all the music, movies, TV recordings, etc. Suppose HTPC 1 mounts an ISO image of a movie to a virtual drive like Daemo Tools, would HTPC 2 be able to mount the same image at the same time? Screw the legality or ethics - I'm curious about this from a technical and performance standpoint.
 
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Tom

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
13,293
1
76
should be illegal to profit from copyrighted work without authorization.

Same reason it isn't legal to buy a dvd and then charge people admission to watch it.

 
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TechnoPro

Golden Member
Jul 10, 2003
1,727
0
76
Originally posted by: Tom
should be illegal to profit from copyrighted work without authorization.

Same reason it isn't legal to buy a dvd and then charge people admission to watch it.
Click to expand...

What about if I sell you a DVD movie for more than I paid for it? I am profiting from a copywritten work and that is most certainly legal.
 
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EyeMWing

Banned
Jun 13, 2003
15,670
1
0
Originally posted by: TechnoPro
Another semi-related question:

A house has 2 HTPCs connected to a separate file server that holds all the music, movies, TV recordings, etc. Suppose HTPC 1 mounts an ISO image of a movie to a virtual drive like Daemo Tools, would HTPC 2 be able to mount the same image at the same time? Screw the legality or ethics - I'm curious about this from a technical and performance standpoint.
Click to expand...

Yes. I do this all the time.Your HD's throughput FAR exceeds the original drive's throughput. Networking, however, could be a problem if one link is 10mbit :p
 
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