Self defense or second degree murder?

[Babbles]

Originally posted by: Venix
Murder, manslaughter, or whatever is the appropriate charge for gross negligence resulting in death.

This is probably going to be one of the most lopsided polls ever.

Yup.

 

[halik]

I'm pretty sure the castle doctrine doesn't apply in hotel rooms... manslaughter for sure.

 

[JulesMaximus]

Second degree murder.

 

[spidey07]

It depends on the state. I don't view that as murder in anyway. He had legitimate reason to fire as you can reasonably assume he feared his life was in danger.

Manslaughter.

 

[Phokus]

Originally posted by: spidey07
It depends on the state. I don't view that as murder in anyway. He had legitimate reason to fire as you can reasonably assume he feared his life was in danger.

Manslaughter.

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: yet another spidey.txt moment

Originally posted by: MotF Bane

Originally posted by: Phokus
What? He was just trying to defend himself, why do you all hate guns, freedom, and america? </sarcasm>

Hi troll. :disgust:

Called it.

 

[daniel1113]

Originally posted by: halik
I'm pretty sure the castle doctrine doesn't apply in hotel rooms... manslaughter for sure.

Actually, in most cases, hotel rooms are considered one's abode while traveling and are therefore subject to the same protections. YMMV depending on the state, though.

 

[MotF Bane]

Originally posted by: spidey07
It depends on the state. I don't view that as murder in anyway. He had legitimate reason to fire as you can reasonably assume he feared his life was in danger.

Manslaughter.

Seriously? You're ridiculous.

 

[spidey07]

Originally posted by: MotF Bane

Originally posted by: spidey07
It depends on the state. I don't view that as murder in anyway. He had legitimate reason to fire as you can reasonably assume he feared his life was in danger.

Manslaughter.

Seriously? You're ridiculous.

There have been many people who shot at those trying to break in or mistaken homes/apartments. The shooters are normally found not guilty. I wouldn't do what is described in the OP, but that doesn't mean it's a crime.

Depending on the State.

 

[MotF Bane]

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: MotF Bane

Originally posted by: spidey07
It depends on the state. I don't view that as murder in anyway. He had legitimate reason to fire as you can reasonably assume he feared his life was in danger.

Manslaughter.

Seriously? You're ridiculous.

There have been many people who shot at those trying to break in or mistaken homes/apartments. The shooters are normally found not guilty.

Depending on the State.

It's a hotel. It's not your personal territory to defend, your castle so to speak. You don't shoot through the door without knowing what's happening or who is on the other side.

 

[Phokus]

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: MotF Bane

Originally posted by: spidey07
It depends on the state. I don't view that as murder in anyway. He had legitimate reason to fire as you can reasonably assume he feared his life was in danger.

Manslaughter.

Seriously? You're ridiculous.

There have been many people who shot at those trying to break in or mistaken homes/apartments. The shooters are normally found not guilty. I wouldn't do what is described in the OP, but that doesn't mean it's a crime.

Depending on the State.

There may or may not be states that may have retarded laws on their books that would allow this idiot to get away with only 'manslaughter', that's not the point, we're ridiculing you for this statement:

He had legitimate reason to fire as you can reasonably assume he feared his life was in danger.

 

[spidey07]

Originally posted by: MotF Bane

It's a hotel. It's not your personal territory to defend, your castle so to speak. You don't shoot through the door without knowing what's happening or who is on the other side.

So that's the point. It all boils down to if castle laws apply to your hotel room.

IT DEPENDS ON THE STATE!

 

[Babbles]

Originally posted by: spidey07
It depends on the state. I don't view that as murder in anyway. He had legitimate reason to fire as you can reasonably assume he feared his life was in danger.

Manslaughter.

No, you can not make that assumption. To fire wildly without visual confirmation that one's life is threatened is absolutely not reasonable.

If you seriously think this can be construed as a reasonable assumption then you (1) have the mental acumen of a sock full of nickles - or - (2) being intellectual dishonest just for the sake of trolling and/or creating an argument.

 

[darkxshade]

Grand theft life.

 

[spidey07]

Originally posted by: Babbles

Originally posted by: spidey07
It depends on the state. I don't view that as murder in anyway. He had legitimate reason to fire as you can reasonably assume he feared his life was in danger.

Manslaughter.

No, you can not make that assumption. To fire wildly without visual confirmation that one's life is threatened is absolutely not reasonable.

If you seriously think this can be construed as a reasonable assumption then you (1) have the mental acumen of a sock full of nickles - or - (2) being intellectual dishonest just for the sake of trolling and/or creating an argument.

I already said I wouldn't have done what the shooter did. Only bringing up that other cases in similar circumstances result in no charges or not guilty.

Murder is normally not applied to situations like this as you can't prove it was murder because the defense can just say "My client legitimately feared for his life"

 

[MrPickins]

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: Babbles

Originally posted by: spidey07
It depends on the state. I don't view that as murder in anyway. He had legitimate reason to fire as you can reasonably assume he feared his life was in danger.

Manslaughter.

No, you can not make that assumption. To fire wildly without visual confirmation that one's life is threatened is absolutely not reasonable.

If you seriously think this can be construed as a reasonable assumption then you (1) have the mental acumen of a sock full of nickles - or - (2) being intellectual dishonest just for the sake of trolling and/or creating an argument.

I already said I wouldn't have done what the shooter did. Only bringing up that other cases in similar circumstances result in no charges or not guilty.

Link?

 

[Nyati13]

Originally posted by: Babbles

Originally posted by: spidey07
It depends on the state. I don't view that as murder in anyway. He had legitimate reason to fire as you can reasonably assume he feared his life was in danger.

Manslaughter.

No, you can not make that assumption. To fire wildly without visual confirmation that one's life is threatened is absolutely not reasonable.

If you seriously think this can be construed as a reasonable assumption then you (1) have the mental acumen of a sock full of nickles - or - (2) being intellectual dishonest just for the sake of trolling and/or creating an argument.

There is no case for self defense as long as the door is still locked and closed (ie the man cannot reasonably assume that his life is in danger). If somebody kicks in your door, then you can shoot him.

 

[Barfo]

murder

 

[Nyati13]

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: MotF Bane

It's a hotel. It's not your personal territory to defend, your castle so to speak. You don't shoot through the door without knowing what's happening or who is on the other side.

So that's the point. It all boils down to if castle laws apply to your hotel room.

IT DEPENDS ON THE STATE!

No it doesn't depend on the state. Firing blindly through a door is not protected as self defense in ANY STATE (since you like shouty caps apparently).

 

[Gooberlx2]

murder

 

[MixMasterTang]

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: MotF Bane

It's a hotel. It's not your personal territory to defend, your castle so to speak. You don't shoot through the door without knowing what's happening or who is on the other side.

So that's the point. It all boils down to if castle laws apply to your hotel room.

IT DEPENDS ON THE STATE!

Hotels have maids that come into your room, maintenance guys, etc. and it is not too uncommon for hotels to accidentally try to put 2 different people in the same room. Yes maids and maintenance guys are supposed to knock and announce they are coming in, but you don't always hear them if you're in the bathroom or watching TV, so it doesn't give someone the right to shoot them even if they start to open up the door. There's a reason for the safty latches.

 

[actuarial]

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: MotF Bane

It's a hotel. It's not your personal territory to defend, your castle so to speak. You don't shoot through the door without knowing what's happening or who is on the other side.

So that's the point. It all boils down to if castle laws apply to your hotel room.

IT DEPENDS ON THE STATE!

So let's say the castle law applies. What happens if a cleaner comes in? And why would the hallway count under this.

I agree if a guy forces himself into your hotel room you'll probably have a case of self defense, but if he jiggles the handle on your damn door?

 

[ryan256]

Manslaughter

The unlawful killing of a human being without malice or premeditation, either express or implied; distinguished from murder, which requires malicious intent.

Seems to fit perfectly.

 

[jonks]

Legal in Florida if he reasonably suspected someone was trying to break in.

 

[Kelvrick]

I'm as big a gun supporter as they come, but I don't think this guy should get off without a charge. The sound of someone trying to open a door with a key isn't the same as someone trying to break down your door.

 

[Kelvrick]

Originally posted by: ryan256
Manslaughter

The unlawful killing of a human being without malice or premeditation, either express or implied; distinguished from murder, which requires malicious intent.

Seems to fit perfectly.

I'm pretty sure he meant to kill whoever was trying to open the door though. Even if it was a misunderstanding.