• Guest, The rules for the P & N subforum have been updated to prohibit "ad hominem" or personal attacks against other posters. See the full details in the post "Politics and News Rules & Guidelines."

Self-Defense gun kills 3 year old boy

Page 4 - Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.

MovingTarget

Diamond Member
Jun 22, 2003
8,990
84
91
Sigh. Another needless death due to bad parenting. As any responsible firearms owner will tell you, they should be stored locked up in a separate location from the ammunition. You should NEVER keep a weapon loaded. This was a grave oversight by the parent. The children should have been taught about the firearm and to stay away from them at the very least. Unless the weapon was knocked over and/or accidentally discharged, then it is not the fault of the weapon. It worked as intended.

I am a gun rights supporter, but I do believe that a course on firearms safety/operation should be required to purchase them. The course should be readily available by the state and free to citizens who choose to exercise their right to bear arms. This way there would be no excuses.
 

Hacp

Lifer
Jun 8, 2005
13,929
1
81
This is why we need gun control. If this bad parent had been screened out of the system, this would never have happened.
 

her209

No Lifer
Oct 11, 2000
56,361
8
0
Originally posted by: Hacp
This is why we need gun control. If this bad parent had been screened out of the system, this would never have happened.
No we don't. Guns will take care of that.
 

Killerme33

Senior member
Jan 17, 2006
399
0
0
Since everyone says this can't be used as a case against firearms, does that mean every self-defense story can't be used as a case for firearms?
 

JD50

Lifer
Sep 4, 2005
11,016
308
126
Originally posted by: JohnOfSheffield
Originally posted by: JD50
Originally posted by: JohnOfSheffield
Nebor, this would have been fun if it didn't prove one thing, gun rights morons are just that, morons.

Anyone who has posted in this forum in a year or so knows your stance yet these fucked up people are arguing against a stance that you agree with them on in reality.

'twas funny though, i'll give you that. :D
Great parody, did you notice that none of the P&N regulars took him seriously?
Yeah, why do monkies have the right to bear arms when they are too daft to understand the simplest things? Now THAT is a question that needs an answer. :D

I hope you and those of yours are all good.

I am going to get really really drunk now, therapy you see, heh, if i make no sense later on, you know why.
Thanks, same to you. Are you going to be able to make it home for the holidays?
 

Darwin333

Lifer
Dec 11, 2006
19,947
2,324
126
Originally posted by: Throckmorton
Originally posted by: Darwin333
Originally posted by: Throckmorton
Originally posted by: Darwin333
Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
She kept it under the couch!?! Loaded!?! <shakes head>

This is why I have/prefer a handgun that is easily hidden for self defense in the home. My kids never even knew I had it.... and still don't for that matter.
I take the opposite approach. I have taught my daughter about guns. I show her my guns. I teach her what can happen if she plays/picks up a gun. I teach her to respect them and to leave them alone. When she is old enough I am going to bring her to the range. I figure that teaching her the dangers is much better than her finding a gun and not knowing how dangerous it is.


Kind of funny story. Her cousin came over to play a few months ago and he brought a backpack of toys with him. He dumped them out on the floor in her playroom to get something or another while they where playing. He had a toy gun that didn't look very real but I guess since the only toy guns she has ever played with were the goofy looking nerf guns she thought it was real. She grabbed her cousin and ran into the living room and told me there was a gun on the floor. Just like I taught her to.

Granted, I don't go leaving shotguns under the couch or anywhere within her reach but I want her to know exactly what to do if she does come across a weapon.
Teaching the kid about guns is irrelevant IMO. When I was a kid I did a lot of things my parents told me not to, like stick a key in an electrical socket. BOYS WILL BE BOYS. That is why you put the gun in a place the child cannot get it, not a place where the child has to be responsible enough not to take it and shoot someone.
Oh I see. So teaching my child anything about safety (gun or not) is completely irrelevant? Man have I been going in the wrong direction. I probably shouldn't waste my time teaching her not to talk to or go with strangers either.

For the record, I keep all of my guns either on my person, in my large gun safe or in my quick open pistol safe next to my bed.
I'm not saying you shouldn't teach her. I'm saying you'd be stupid to teach her and then leave the gun under the couch and expect her to do the right thing.
Then I would agree with you. The first sentence in your OP is misleading if this post reflects your true feelings on the subject.

Have you ever read about a child getting shot at a friends house after the friend finds their parents gun? Well, I have and I would like my child to know what to do in that situation and so far (even though the gun wasn't actually real, she thought it was) it appears that my education has worked.
 

Darwin333

Lifer
Dec 11, 2006
19,947
2,324
126
Originally posted by: Killerme33
Since everyone says this can't be used as a case against firearms, does that mean every self-defense story can't be used as a case for firearms?
Comparing unintended accidents to intentional actions is rather unfair. Kind of like making a case against automobiles because of accidents without also considering the benefits.
 

Nebor

Lifer
Jun 24, 2003
29,586
11
76
Originally posted by: Stoneburner
WHy can't I purchase m1-abrams and SAM's?
There's nothing stopping you. Plenty of privates citizens own tanks. You'll have to pay some taxes and jump through some hoops though.
 

Nebor

Lifer
Jun 24, 2003
29,586
11
76
Originally posted by: Hacp
This is why we need gun control. If this bad parent had been screened out of the system, this would never have happened.
How would you have screened her out from buying a gun? When she said she was being stalked, would you have just laughed in her face?
 

P229SAS

Member
Jun 21, 2006
87
0
0
Originally posted by: Nebor
Originally posted by: Stoneburner
WHy can't I purchase m1-abrams and SAM's?
There's nothing stopping you. Plenty of privates citizens own tanks. You'll have to pay some taxes and jump through some hoops though.
Civilians can only own demilitarized tanks with the main gun disabled, but there are definitely guys out there who own them. "Tank Overhaul" on the Military Channel is a great show about guys that do restorations etc.

The cheapest legal market MANPAD SAMs cost tens of thousands of dollars although you could probably get them for less per unit if you bought in bulk ;)
 

KB

Diamond Member
Nov 8, 1999
5,146
199
106
If you own a gun you have to keep it away from children. You don't leave household cleaners and poisons out within their reach, so why leave guns within their reach. Also if you own a gun you get the child involved with gun safety, lust like teaching them to look both ways before crossing the road.

Maybe she should have shown her kids Eddie Eagle?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wIEBrb_wRYc
 

1EZduzit

Lifer
Feb 4, 2002
11,834
1
0
Originally posted by: Throckmorton
Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
Originally posted by: Throckmorton
Originally posted by: Darwin333
Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
She kept it under the couch!?! Loaded!?! <shakes head>

This is why I have/prefer a handgun that is easily hidden for self defense in the home. My kids never even knew I had it.... and still don't for that matter.
I take the opposite approach. I have taught my daughter about guns. I show her my guns. I teach her what can happen if she plays/picks up a gun. I teach her to respect them and to leave them alone. When she is old enough I am going to bring her to the range. I figure that teaching her the dangers is much better than her finding a gun and not knowing how dangerous it is.


Kind of funny story. Her cousin came over to play a few months ago and he brought a backpack of toys with him. He dumped them out on the floor in her playroom to get something or another while they where playing. He had a toy gun that didn't look very real but I guess since the only toy guns she has ever played with were the goofy looking nerf guns she thought it was real. She grabbed her cousin and ran into the living room and told me there was a gun on the floor. Just like I taught her to.

Granted, I don't go leaving shotguns under the couch or anywhere within her reach but I want her to know exactly what to do if she does come across a weapon.
Teaching the kid about guns is irrelevant IMO. When I was a kid I did a lot of things my parents told me not to, like stick a key in an electrical socket. BOYS WILL BE BOYS. That is why you put the gun in a place the child cannot get it, not a place where the child has to be responsible enough not to take it and shoot someone.
So should they put lock boxes on the electric outlets too?
I don't understand what you are saying. Should parents keep their guns within reach of children because electrical outlets are within reach of children?
I'm saying that you train your children about dangers, whether it be guns, electrical outlets, or flying kites. Safety training is NOT irrelevant, as a matter of fact to not teach you kids about the dangers in and around the household and life in general is irresponsible.

This poor Mom apparently thought saftey training was irrelevant too, look where it got her. I would go so far as to say if SHE had some saftely training/awareness she would have know better then to leave a loaded shotgun under the couch. You don't do that even if you DON'T have small children around the house.
 

Nebor

Lifer
Jun 24, 2003
29,586
11
76
Originally posted by: P229SAS
Originally posted by: Nebor
Originally posted by: Stoneburner
WHy can't I purchase m1-abrams and SAM's?
There's nothing stopping you. Plenty of privates citizens own tanks. You'll have to pay some taxes and jump through some hoops though.
Civilians can only own demilitarized tanks with the main gun disabled, but there are definitely guys out there who own them. "Tank Overhaul" on the Military Channel is a great show about guys that do restorations etc.

The cheapest legal market MANPAD SAMs cost tens of thousands of dollars although you could probably get them for less per unit if you bought in bulk ;)
Main gun can be registered as a DD for live use. Each shell is also a DD. I know a guy in North Dallas who has garage shelves full of HE and DU artillery and tank shells. And he lives in a neighborhood full of children! OH NOEZZZ!
 

JD50

Lifer
Sep 4, 2005
11,016
308
126
Originally posted by: Nebor
Originally posted by: Hacp
This is why we need gun control. If this bad parent had been screened out of the system, this would never have happened.
How would you have screened her out from buying a gun? When she said she was being stalked, would you have just laughed in her face?
Yes, thats what the Police are for. They can sense when you are in trouble and will ALWAYS be there in time to save you. ;)
 

JTsyo

Lifer
Nov 18, 2007
10,886
201
106
Do the parents ever get charged in situations like this? Or at least have their licenses revoked? It seems to me if you're going to exercise your right to own a gun you need to be responsible for it too.
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
47,850
8,171
126
Originally posted by: JTsyo
Do the parents ever get charged in situations like this? Or at least have their licenses revoked? It seems to me if you're going to exercise your right to own a gun you need to be responsible for it too.
That varies depending on whether or not authorities find actual intent to commit wrongdoing or not. If the circumstances demonstrate a lack of intent, then usually the parents are not charged. I mean, think about it... their child is dead. What more harm could society do to them?
 

jonks

Lifer
Feb 7, 2005
13,926
18
81
Originally posted by: Vic
Originally posted by: JTsyo
Do the parents ever get charged in situations like this? Or at least have their licenses revoked? It seems to me if you're going to exercise your right to own a gun you need to be responsible for it too.
That varies depending on whether or not authorities find actual intent to commit wrongdoing or not. If the circumstances demonstrate a lack of intent, then usually the parents are not charged. I mean, think about it... their child is dead. What more harm could society do to them?
This isn't a crime of intent, it's one of criminal negligence. I doubt she'll be charged, but she certainly could be, just like the parents who leave their kids to roast in the car on hot days. Some get charged, others don't.
 

ahurtt

Diamond Member
Feb 1, 2001
4,283
0
0
Originally posted by: Nebor
Edmundson Police Chief Donald Kraher said the weapon had been kept beneath a couch.
Let's hide a loaded shotgun under the sofa. . .a little rugrat would never find it there. :confused:

This is Darwin Awards material, that's what this is.
'nuff said.
 

ahurtt

Diamond Member
Feb 1, 2001
4,283
0
0
Originally posted by: Nebor
Originally posted by: PC Surgeon
As much as you would like to make it about gun laws, its not. It's responsible parenting at fault.
What purpose could this woman possibly have for owning a pump action assault style automatic shotgun?
That doesn't matter. Even if it were a handgun the same thing could have happened here. What you should be asking is this - What possible reason did she have for thinking that hiding it loaded on the floor under the sofa with a 3 year-old and an 8 year-old in the house would yield any different results than it did? This is murder by neglect and ignorance. It almost seems that she subconsciously wanted this to happen. . .No trigger lock? The gun was loaded? Safety off? I mean come on. . .
 

Nitemare

Lifer
Feb 8, 2001
35,469
1
76
parents fault for leaving a loaded shotgun or an unloaded shotgun around with the ammunition. They should be charged
 

Nebor

Lifer
Jun 24, 2003
29,586
11
76
Originally posted by: JTsyo
Do the parents ever get charged in situations like this? Or at least have their licenses revoked? It seems to me if you're going to exercise your right to own a gun you need to be responsible for it too.
You don't need a license to own a gun in America.
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
47,850
8,171
126
Originally posted by: sirjonk
Originally posted by: Vic
Originally posted by: JTsyo
Do the parents ever get charged in situations like this? Or at least have their licenses revoked? It seems to me if you're going to exercise your right to own a gun you need to be responsible for it too.
That varies depending on whether or not authorities find actual intent to commit wrongdoing or not. If the circumstances demonstrate a lack of intent, then usually the parents are not charged. I mean, think about it... their child is dead. What more harm could society do to them?
This isn't a crime of intent, it's one of criminal negligence. I doubt she'll be charged, but she certainly could be, just like the parents who leave their kids to roast in the car on hot days. Some get charged, others don't.
Is there an echo in this forum?
 

jonks

Lifer
Feb 7, 2005
13,926
18
81
Originally posted by: Vic
Originally posted by: sirjonk
Originally posted by: Vic
Originally posted by: JTsyo
Do the parents ever get charged in situations like this? Or at least have their licenses revoked? It seems to me if you're going to exercise your right to own a gun you need to be responsible for it too.
That varies depending on whether or not authorities find actual intent to commit wrongdoing or not. If the circumstances demonstrate a lack of intent, then usually the parents are not charged. I mean, think about it... their child is dead. What more harm could society do to them?
This isn't a crime of intent, it's one of criminal negligence. I doubt she'll be charged, but she certainly could be, just like the parents who leave their kids to roast in the car on hot days. Some get charged, others don't.
Is there an echo in this forum?
in this forum?

this forum?

forum?
 

shortylickens

No Lifer
Jul 15, 2003
78,220
11,212
126
This thread is full of fucking IDIOTS!

Thats all I wanted to say. Enjoy your meal and be sure to tip your waitress.
 

ASK THE COMMUNITY